Force Awakens Discussion (SPOILER ALERT)

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 19, 2015 - 2:06am
If you haven't seen the movie yet and missed the blurb in the title:

SPOILER ALERT!!!

It's you're own fault if you read any further. Kiss Kiss Kiss

With the disclaimer out of the way, lets talk about the movie.

_____________________________________________________________


The new characters melded well with the old ones, and Han & Chewbacca were awesome as always. I had read about Darth Tantrum prior to seeing the flick and was happy to see it wasn't Darth Crybaby/Anakin level. The reactions of his subordinates were great...the officer fully expecting to be Vader'd to death and breathing a sigh of relief when it didn't happen along with the patrolling storm troopers pausing and performing an about face. Ren definitely has a reputation already that is only rivaled by Vader's. 

I was glad to see the opening crawl tradition carried over. The Star Destroyers seemed a lot larger and intimidating this time around and the opening appearance of one eclipsing the screen was refreshing from a dorsal point of view. I enjoyed the various Easter eggs, such as Finn tossing the Saber probe aside and triggering the holo-chess game among others throughout the film. While the revamped Death Star was played out, at least it was a refreshing concept of being built into an actual planet versus the mobile space station times three, more so with the extended range that resolved the need for being mobile. Lots of nods to the original trilogy as such, but for the most part they worked.

Despite Ford's admission to being one and done with the rebooted franchise, his death was fairly predictable. My wife --- who had avoided all the reviews and internet talk --- saw it coming well before it happened. However, it was more dramatic than I expected, I figured Ren would have simply force-pushed him over the edge instead of running him through and experiencing a dying breath moment.

Finn cracked me up. He was always dodging the truth while doing so in heroic fashion. "Sanitation?!?" "Yeah, actually I'm just here for Rey." Poe had witty one liners in a Han Solo-esque fashion but it was Finn who kept me laughing out loud. BB-8 wasn't the disappointment I thought it would be, and I am thankful for that. I'm still not overly wild about R2-soccer-ball, but it wasn't Ewok/Jar-Jar deplorable either. The saber duel wasn't as invigorating as I'd hoped for, but then again it was non-Jedi vs Sith followed by newbie-Jedi vs Sith so it was at least acceptable as such. And we got to see an actual use for the Swiss Army Jedi Saber hilt blades that launched it from lame-kewl factor to okay-that-makes-sense factor.

Of minor disappointment was the lackluster John Williams musical score, which sounded more Indiana Jones than Star Wars. It felt like there was a major budget cut and it was limited to Williams, because even the aforementioned Indy scores were memorable and this one all but disappeared into the background noises. In addition to Star Wars movies looking like Star Wars movies, they also need to SOUND like Star Wars movies, and this one did not.

My only major disappointment so far (I do plan on seeing again within the next week so I may find more nits to pick) was Luke's overly brief screen time. Sure, he's been missing for a few decades, I get that much. But he could have at least had a speaking role, even a brief few words instead of a final cameo eye contact appearance. I mean Kenny Baker was listed at the bottom of the closing credits as "R2-D2 consultant" and R2 had far more screen time than prominently mentioned Hamill.

In the end it is an awesome flick and I am happy I saw it on opening weekend.

I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website
Comments:

iggy's picture
iggy
December 19, 2015 - 6:01am
I agree that I am happy I saw it and I will see it again.  My major gripe was that I am tired of death stars.  I liked how the movie was progressing as a search for Luke until it deviated to a retelling of episode IV.  I could have done without the star killer planet.  They also passed the realm of science fantasy into pure fantasy when they sucked the entire energy of a star into a planet.  Come on, a star is thousands of times larger than a 1g planet.  I view Star Wars as science fantasy and thus don't expect science accuracy but this was too much.  They will have to redeem themselves by explaining what happened to the leftover star mass.

Other than my complaint about yet another death star, episode IV retelling, I enjoyed the rest.  Han and Chewie were awesome and it was fun how they reclaimed the Falcon.  I saw the hand off of the ownership of the Falcon comming and Han's death actually surprised me.  I am good with Han's passing the way he did.  I liked Finn and the development of his character.  I like that the empire is a shell of it's former self using normal babies rather than clones.  But you easily sense that they are on the verge of regaining their empire status.  I am cool with how Poe developed and see him as not a Luke replacement bet rather a new hero akin to Wedge.  This is good to mix up the heroes and not just copy the old.  I am expecting Rey to be revealed as the long lost twin sister of Ren.  But what I do not get is how Han and Leia would loose a  twin daughter so I may have the wrong hunch.
-iggy

Sargonarhes's picture
Sargonarhes
December 19, 2015 - 9:52am
And now you know why I reject it. Sure I've heard the stories that Harrison Ford thought Han should have died as a martyr, but I'm glad Lucas convinced him other wise. Had Han died then I wouldn't have even bothered watching ROTJ or the prequels for that matter and just hated Star Wars more then. So even if Ford got his way I still hate this movie and will never watch it or the next line of sequels, I hate them already and JJ Abrams and Disney with passion now more than ever.

BTW yes the prequels were very painful to watch, I found Gievous to be their only saving grace. If only he had been put in them a little sooner. But then Lucas can be a retard as well.

But this is NOT the star wars movie I was looking for.

I guess I'm just not a star wars fan.
In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.

iggy's picture
iggy
December 19, 2015 - 8:42am
I cannot think of any movie series or book series that I have liked every one of.  I logically recognize that not liking every movie in a series is unrealistic.  I would have to be the writer, director, and producer myself to even come close to liking every movie in a series.   Hence I will enjoy them best I can, state my misgivings and go on with things.  These are  someone else's stories they are sharing with me, not my own.
-iggy

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 19, 2015 - 10:52pm
Sargonarhes wrote:
BTW yes the prequels were very painful to watch, I found Gievous to be their only saving grace. If only he had been put in them a little sooner.

I heartily recommend the animated Clone Wars cartoon series (not the more recent CGI wood-carving figures but the cartoonish Bratz style series). It's a two or three season collection of tales that picked up right where ATOC left off and finished right where ROTS begins. Greivous is introduced toward the end of season 1 and makes prominent appearances that develope the character along the way, up to and including how the borg "inherited" his constant coughing.




EDIT - I had typed ROTJ instead of what was supposed to be ROTS
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Sargonarhes's picture
Sargonarhes
December 20, 2015 - 2:14pm
It's that very series where Grievous caught my attention, he was an absolute combat machine. RoTS kind of toned him down after that, which was stupid. Would have made a better villian the way he was from that Clone Wars series.
In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 20, 2015 - 4:31pm
The CGI Clone Wars and the current Rebels series are great stories as well.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Malcadon's picture
Malcadon
December 22, 2015 - 2:39am
Personally, I wised they made this big bad guy... Skroob or whatever? ...more mysterious. That is, they should have hid his face and only revealed it in one of the upcoming movies. (Would it be funny if he was really short in person, but he makes himself appear large do to a inferiority complex?) And yeah, I was disappointed in a lack of a memorable music score to set it apart form the other movies.

Beyond that minor issue, I quite enjoyed it. Yes, the prequels set the bar (really, really) low, but all you go from that is up. And yes, the plot and characters were rehashed form the first movie, but the first movie did a lot of rehashing if its own really hold any of it against them. On its own merits, its a good movie that honors its roots, while also adding its own fresh take on the franchise, and is enjoyable all around. I'm more satisfied with Abrams' work on this, than any of the Star Trek reboots.

If anyone missed out on the Clone Wars series — be it, you got turned off by the first season or the animation, or just never seen it — then I highly recommend seeing it, along with Rebels. Once you get past the rocky start, it quickly picks up steam. They give a great deal of personality to the clone soldiers. The series did a lot of justice to the Anakin character, and at no point did you feel a strong compulsion to force-choke him! They introduce a lot of memorable characters. It is a surprisingly mature and well-written series that is worth watching.

If the animation style seems angular, big-eyed and wooden, that is because it was inspired by the "supermarionation" shows form the '60s like Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlet.

 Oh, and James Earl Jones reprise his role as Darth Vader in Rebels, and at no point do they squander it! Vader is just (metaphorically) force-squeezing balls in every scene he is in! Its an awesome reminder why he is so bad-ass!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 22, 2015 - 9:05am
I saw the Clone Wars pilot in the theater. While I would have rather spent that coin on the collected DVD (which I eventually did anyways), it DID get better. More so with each new season, and the ending was a heart wrenching yet sensible way of connecting it to the movies.

I have missed quite a few episodes of Rebels but I love what I have seen so far. I'll be getting the collected DVD editions of those as well.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 23, 2015 - 5:58am
Malcadon wrote:


 Oh, and James Earl Jones reprise his role as Darth Vader in Rebels, and at no point do they squander it! Vader is just (metaphorically) force-squeezing balls in every scene he is in! Its an awesome reminder why he is so bad-ass!
Awesome, I'm of the opinion that Vader with the James Earl Jones voice will prove to be the best villian of the Star Wars franchise. Darth Tantrum of the new movie is clearly an unhinged psychopath and his mother should be the one to put him down in the third movie but Vader is a much more cunning and calculated villian
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 23, 2015 - 8:54pm
I just got back from a second viewing, this time in 3D. There are 3D movies shot with twin cameras to get left eye/right eye perspectives and digitally merged, and then there are 2D movies shot with a single camera that get converted to 3D Viewmaster-Vision. 

Force Awakens is the Viewmaster Vision type of 3D movie. 

Beyond the standard fare Viewmaster Vision, I counted maybe half a dozen 3D effects where something was "reach-out-and-touch-it". None of it was "leap-out-at-you-and-flinch". The aerial dog fight at the end was probably the saving grace, it was a great scene for 3D although again, nothing really leaps out of the screen at you --- but it just looked better in 3D than 2D. The down side is the darkening effect of the 3D glasses, there are a lot of low light shots in Force Awakens and it made it tough to see what was going on. Had I not already seen it in 2D I would have been pretty clueless as to what was transpiring.

In short, I felt the extra cost for the a pair of 3D tickets would have been better invested at the concession stand for popcorn and a Coke.




* Also noteworthy: do not rely on Fandango for ticket information. I arrived for a show that Fandango stated was 3D and it was a 2D showing. Fortunately I only gleaned the misinformation prior to hitting the box office and didn't pay 3D prices for 2D tickets. This is not the first time Fandango has mis-listed information, they have posted times that don't exist at the theaters on numerous occasions in the past.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Malcadon's picture
Malcadon
December 24, 2015 - 1:37am
When I seen it in IMAX 3D, the 3D was fairly good, with only two exceptions: The opening shot when the Star Destroyer was moving towards Jakku, some ships flew out of it to the top of the screen, and they were splitting into two do to a failure with the stereoscopic effect (although, that might have been form sitting at a bad angel, at the third row); the other was when the Star Destroyer appeared on screen at a Dutch Angle, with the front tip of the ship that sticks out at you. The stereoscopic effect of the later worked well, but the Dutch Angle was not warranted for the scene (they only needed to convey the size and power of the FO, not madness or tension), and the "in your face" approach felt like a cheap gimmick that says bluntly "Hay look! We're in THREE-DEE!!!" Besides those distractions, an the minor complication that D3 has a difficult time keeping up with fast motion, it was, in the end, worth seeing in 3D.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 24, 2015 - 7:35am
The motion blur was definitely an issue as well. I'm not sure if the larger IMAX format enhances the 3D but it was terrible on the regular screen. I didn't notice any of the splitting you mentioned, although I was sitting in the back row.

I can't blame the theater for the bad effects as it's the same theater I saw Brendan Frasier's Journey to the Center of the Earth, which was a true 3D film (re: filmed with twin cameras for the left eye/right eye perspective). While that was a subterranean adventure movie, nothing was lost due to low lighting on the regular screen...as it was filmed with 3D glasses in mind so the lighting was right. I wouldn't have minded seeing Drive Angry in the theaters, as that was another true 3D film. 
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 30, 2015 - 12:47am
So here's something that bugged me. Just a nit worth picking at more than anything. For starters I wasn't too keen on a lowly single trooper with a weapon capable of deflecting a light saber, after all to their knowledge only Kylo Ren had one so why would Ren allow anyone else to be capable of challenging his (arguably) weak dueling skills?

But wait, never mind any of that...just watch this:

Image

That entire electric blue section just passes right through his abdomen. That's right, we have a 4' long weapon being swung underarm inside 2' worth of space. Apparently it passes harmlessly right through armor and flesh but at the same time it can block a "penetrates-anything" light saber.

Uhhhhhhhhh...yyyyyyyyyeah.

This is where I have to give Lucas credit where it's due, at least Maul's saber/quarter staff never did that.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 30, 2015 - 5:39am
Maybe this trooper is really a Phantom and passing the weapon through his body is his way of Menacing his opponents?

Good catch shadow.

I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Malcadon's picture
Malcadon
December 30, 2015 - 7:30am
I have no issue with Stormtroopers using lightsabers. Hell, I wish it was canon from the get-go, as with the concept art!





"Your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon... for a more civilized age." —Obi-Wan Kenobi, Star Wars: A New Hope

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 30, 2015 - 10:46am
Well maybe with light sabers the storm troopers might actually hit something.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 30, 2015 - 4:03pm
TFA stormtroopers actually did hit their targets. But as I said, my big gripe about the electro-tonfa wasn't so much the possession aspect rather its ability to phase through the wielder and block the saber at the same time.


And something I meant to address earlier on but neglected and forgot...

iggy wrote:
My major gripe was that I am tired of death stars.

Chalk that up to "perceived improvements to a flawed design". Harley Davidson has been doing it since 1936, making trivial improvements to an engine design which, 80 years later, is still capable of rattling your fillings loose. Only recently did they think to use rubber mounting for those paint shakers under the tanks. But they continue to dominate the motorcycle sales market. 

Also worth mentioning: they're severe merchandising whores, just like Disney and Lucas. Tongue out
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 30, 2015 - 4:40pm
The next super weapon will be a Shiva Star, basically the death Star concept taken to the next order of magnitude as its built on the scale of a and incorporates a Star.

Movie is at the 570 million mark as reported on radio as I type this
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Sargonarhes's picture
Sargonarhes
December 30, 2015 - 9:08pm
Shadow Shack wrote:
So here's something that bugged me. Just a nit worth picking at more than anything. For starters I wasn't too keen on a lowly single trooper with a weapon capable of deflecting a light saber, after all to their knowledge only Kylo Ren had one so why would Ren allow anyone else to be capable of challenging his (arguably) weak dueling skills?

But wait, never mind any of that...just watch this:

Image

That entire electric blue section just passes right through his abdomen. That's right, we have a 4' long weapon being swung underarm inside 2' worth of space. Apparently it passes harmlessly right through armor and flesh but at the same time it can block a "penetrates-anything" light saber.

Uhhhhhhhhh...yyyyyyyyyeah.

This is where I have to give Lucas credit where it's due, at least Maul's saber/quarter staff never did that.


That guydid so much more than just pass the weapon through him.
In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
December 30, 2015 - 9:38pm
I just got back from the film for my B-day.

Okay in general I liked the film, but probably had the same scooby moments or groan moments... I could live without any more death star type weapons, the guy/chick in metal reminded me of old school cyclons, I knew poor Han was going wacked when he tried to go talk to Jr (but then I figured at least 1 of the old guard would have to die), I kept wondering how the Stormtrooper could stop a light saber, and there was something about the new bad guys I did not like... the regular Stormtroopers I liked. I think it was the big red banner that bug me. I hate Jr's lame ass light saber.

On the whole though I had fun, enjoyed all the action.

 
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 31, 2015 - 12:27am
There was a bit of Nazi third Reich feel to moments in the film. 
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
December 31, 2015 - 2:30am
Yes, a bit over the top. When it gets too Space Nazi look in films I groan, it is not as if the bad guys in RL who go in for fascist empire building all have the same flag colors & uniform look... sigh. Plus they always do the Master Race look it seems for the officers... again bad guys & people with superiority complexes do not all look the same or come from the same racial group. Just gets old. That was one of the flaws in the remake of Flash Gordon for TV... they remade Ming an evil blond blue eyed classic Space Nazi guy. Just not right that, wrong & the show was a total flop. 

Now if the movie is called Zombie Space Nazis than I am totally on board with the look, I expect Zombies Nazis in Space marching around in German outfits menacing somebody and probably trying to clone Hitler. 

But the looks I did not like did strike me as JJs influence. I think JJ has a thing for metal on bad guys, I noticed it is Star Trek too. I really hate Solo JRs light saber... I get JR is a nut job but his light saber sucks no wonder he has issues. He has saber envy. Foot in mouth


 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Malcadon's picture
Malcadon
December 31, 2015 - 2:45am
jedion357 wrote:
There was a bit of Nazi third Reich feel to moments in the film. 


I found this quote:
     "That all came out of conversations about what would have happened if the Nazis all went to Argentina but then started working together again? What could be born of that? Could The First Order exist as a group that actually admired The Empire? Could the work of The Empire be seen as unfulfilled? And could Vader be a martyr? Could there be a need to see through what didn't get done?"
?J.J. Abrams[src]
Basically, the First Order is a "what if.." the ODESSA Network formed into a Cobra-like organization.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 31, 2015 - 3:54am
Tchklinxa wrote:
That was one of the flaws in the remake of Flash Gordon for TV... they remade Ming an evil blond blue eyed classic Space Nazi guy. Just not right that, wrong & the show was a total flop. 


They had to, the PC poice didn't want Ming to have Asian features. That's what you get when you katow to the PC crowd.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 31, 2015 - 8:07am
PC sucks.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Sargonarhes's picture
Sargonarhes
December 31, 2015 - 8:12am
I think that's why I like anime so much more than current TV and movies. Too much political correct stuff in them. If anything anime is anything but politically correct.
In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 31, 2015 - 5:43pm
Force Awakens should sedate the PC crowd. We have a black guy, a female, and a hispanic as the lead heroes and an oppressive white guy as the antagonist. Until the whites jump on the PC bandwagon, I just can't see anything to complain about here. 

Aside from the fact that the black guy, female, and hispanic roles were well portrayed without having to resort to any of the class/race stereotypes to make them enjoyable characters. I'm sure there are folks out there claiming Finn wasn't black enough and Rey wasn't feminist enough and Poe wasn't central American enough.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 1, 2016 - 3:28am
Shadow Shack wrote:
 I'm sure there are folks out there claiming Finn wasn't black enough and Rey wasn't feminist enough and Poe wasn't central American enough.

Well the white guy (the one that gave the hitler-esk speach) was certainly Entitled but not  old so they managed to buck the cliche. Still I'm going to have to bitch about stereotypes here. Why not cast Dick Chenney and be done with it. Another villian who is a white asshole, jeash! Wait, I'm a white asshole! I feel so discriminated against, does anyone care?
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Malcadon's picture
Malcadon
January 1, 2016 - 3:45am
The Flash Gordon TV series had issues and problems that goes well beyond political correctness. That series was just flawed on all levels!

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
January 1, 2016 - 9:50am
Flash Gordon remake for TV was a fail on several levels true. When I try an explain the industry often does not understand sci-fi fans a lot of folks get all upset with me, but Flash Gordon is an example of total fail by the industry. 

JJ & Disney did some things right. Action, action, action was one part they got right.  Hopefully JR will get a better light saber in the next movie.

The thing is there seems to be a fascination with Space Nazis... or the Nazi look in the industry. As if all bad guys look that way. A little fresh air on the villains would be nice.  

 
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."