 February 12, 2014 - 11:07am |
Greetings Frontiersmen, from “The Star Herald” Let me first say that, I am a “HUGE FAN” of the Star Frontiers Game and have been actively playing it for nearly 32 years, so my interest in the RPG goes far beyond it just being a game, it has become a way of life for me, and perhaps you the reader of this rambling have similar feelings. I truly am fond of the overall concepts of the system and I have nostalgically digested and enjoyed it with each table serving I have been party to. With that being said, a thought continues traveling around the space lanes of my mind and fiddles with the ideas of Helm, Conn and Semblance of Matrix and just what that might entail and what effects may come to pass with regard to nostalgia-ambiance-function in the game. Whilst continuing in a direction that respects and pays cerebral-remuneration and a warranted homage to the aspects of the Star Frontiers Universe and what we all individually like about the game and why we keep playing it. My personal thoughts are that, I have a high regarded for the past publications of the game and the contributions of the current indie-community, both in substance and effort for what they have achieved with our beloved Star Frontiers game. However, what I am speaking of and what I am suggesting is neither new nor original in its presentation or usage and that is a “Divergent Change/Updating of the Core Game System Rules” that honors the past but embraces the present and is not based on a D20 or Percentile Dice. So, I now pose a “Question” to anyone that reads this and/or talks about this subject among their gaming friends and/or the Star Frontiers community at large. The “Question” is, what if there was a game publisher out there, we’ll call them “X” for now, that has a “Real Interest” in producing a “New Version of the Classic Star Frontiers Game”. “X” also has a fans perspective/knowledge and love of the Classic Star Frontiers Game and “X” believes that they have a feel for what they think makes it unique and while at the same time “X” is quite willing to listen to the desires of the fans “Like Us” and what we would like to see in a “New” Star Frontiers RPG. What if “X” had a Plan and a Vision to expand the Classic Game so that it can be all that it can, but never was, and at the same time usher in a new age of gamer that may not have played or even heard of Star Frontiers? Think “Nostalgia + Homage + New Vision” Lastly, and most importantly, would you like to see a “New” Star Frontiers Game? Editor, The Star Herald “Bringing you the
latest news from across the cosmos”
"For the love of Games, will you get your head out of that book and roll some dice!"  |
 February 12, 2014 - 1:02pm | Well that was some interesting to read. First off its clear that the IP owner of Star Frontiers has no interest in doing anything with it since their last foray into the setting material when they incorporated some very basic pieces of the Star Frontiers universe into their D20 future suppliments :P So is what a new game company doing just a system (rules) or setting? Star Frontiers is an elegant fast play system, admittedly with some lingering wonkiness due to lack of a propper revision, refer to the IP owners lack of willingness to do anything other than sit on the property and do nothing with it. A company could introduce a set of rules (system) to replace Star Frontiers but without the setting its will not be star frontiers. It will be something else. You really didn't tell us anything new or any breaking news for all the wordage? so whats the deal? Your post sounded like some of the spammer post we've dealt with in the past. You are of course welcome to the forums as a fan of Star Frontiers or as a fan of science fiction gaming. Spammers get delt with fairly quickly though (posts get deleted almost within 24 hours of being posted and the offending log in gets deleted or locked). Please note that I'm not trying to antagonize if you are a sincere fan and if I have misread your post. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 12, 2014 - 3:23pm |
Hello jedion357,
I say this with a friendly smile “I am absolutely no
spammer”, I am however thankful for your posting and the points you associated with
my post and the spamming concerns you listed. I will admit my “Wordage” was and
is how I sound when I am “thinking out loud while typing” I am very apologetic to
you jedion357 and to anyone else that might be lending an eye to my post, it
was not my intent to come across as a spammer, I have been referred to by a few
titles but that’s a new for me, however I am not offended at all.
The “Breaking News” was just meant as an eye-grabber, I
won’t knowingly or purposely make that reference again in the future.
“The Deal Is” I was making a long-winded query concerning
a “New Star Frontiers Game” and possibility-what if-maybe return and I had
hoped it would spark at least some level of interest on this website with a
fair amount of vagary as you said, my apologies. So, there is a real chance
that the IP may return as a game again and I wanted to sort-of-share my
thoughts and see what people thought here as well. I was just speaking form the
brain-pan and typing, lol.
I am a sincere fan of the game.
I have a fair amount of so-called “Inside Knowledge” of
what’s going on with the IP but at the same time couldn’t really, am not able
to say or give too much away at this point I am just having trouble waiting to
say something, I was being vague on purpose, however I will use more clarity
the next time I post, ok? I hope you understand me better now.
"For the love of Games, will you get your head out of that book and roll some dice!" |
February 12, 2014 - 3:34pm | I think there would be a 3 responses to the SF IP returning to publication: 1.) about damn time 2.) guarded optimism with comments like "I hope they dont muck it up" 3.) grognardian griping: "I know they'll screw it up and I'm not going to waste my money" I think any effort to bring it back will need to update the rules in certain directions (computers, robots and vehicle combat rules need revision) skill should move in the direction the SFman article A Skilled Frontier to start KHs is a can of different worms I cant get into in the limited time I have right now. If the base rules mechanics changed significantly many of the fan community would not support it, of this I'm sure and I'd likely be one. A major bummer that might happen would be the cancelling of the fan licenses. There are some other problems linked to the mishandling of the property right before it as cancelled: time line and such being the biggest problem. Another minor issue is that the original game was aimed at young adults and the fan community is currently middle age adults- what will be the aim/focus of the new publication? Got to run so I'll have to think on this more latter. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 12, 2014 - 3:50pm | Bill, myself and some members of this site have kicked around the idea of making a pdf download of the "setting" which would include Alpha Dawn, the setting information in the modules and submission from the Star Frontiersman. It would be powered by d00 Lite, prob after Frontier Space comes out. No profit, just a labour of love to have the setting in one place and a more up-to-date rule system. |
 February 13, 2014 - 12:29am |
I will give a perspective from someone just getting back into the swing. Right now, this site and a lot of the links that stem from here, have given me all the SF I would need and without cost. The IP (I am using the term, but only have an assumption of its coinage) has not done anything...so what does one do when left with only their own devices? Takes control. Sadly in this case SF and everything about it hasn't just gone and become public domain. Moving on. You had asked, OP, and I will answer. I love what is already available. I wouldn't want something to remix the world into modern with roots in the past. Basically what you said was that the IP may have reimagined the game and are going to release something THEY find superior. Being a man of business as I am I would root this into taking advantage of the on going and flourishing fan community. Capitalize on the fact that there is still a niche customer base (the target customer base originally that never gave up) and there is the ability to monetize a lot of material. I am sure that during a time of reorganization and strategizing someone with a mind for business thought about all of the fan made material. As was mentioned, there are fan license out there. What would come of them? Or better yet, what of theirs would integrate into this "new" world? I could go far far on with this topic (compensation and the likes), but this isnt what we want. I am pretty sure that some out there would LOVE SF to come back...but honestly with the way products come out NOW...it wouldn't be what SF was to us years ago. It WOULD be something new, MAYBE nostalgic for the old...but it wouldn't be the same. It is never the same. Good sir, you way with words is encouraging....but seriously man, you might want to either be flat out or bite your tongue. IF this is something that IS happening and you are leaking that to us...cool, whatever, I would be pissed if you were my business partner. Or if this is a stretch out to get some fan base for something that isnt what we have here...well then good luck on your campagin. I have a home. : ) |
 February 13, 2014 - 12:48pm | Personally, I think there would be a huge market for the game considering how popular the indie material is. That said, I would recommend starting out with a simple edited version of the original rules in a single volume with new art and retro-modern layout. Then later, update the rules with new editions, easing the community into an evolution of the game as it should have received in the first place. This would also allow for a larger idea base about how to proceed. This would allow you to draw in traditional fans who want, but can't find, decent bound versions and want to play it around a table again, and draw in a new crowd who are undergoing d20 burnout with the recent increase in retro indie games. The IP is different than the trademark. The trademark renewal lapsed about 2 years ago. If you want the name to go with the IP, then you have to be sure to secure the trademark as well. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 February 13, 2014 - 4:23pm | Just please don'y screw up the art, as they did with the Vrusk in d20 Future. Get someone who has respect for the original art. And please don't "reimagine" the whole thing into something unrecognizable. |
 February 13, 2014 - 4:40pm | I'd be happy to help out with artwork  |
February 13, 2014 - 4:43pm | Yeah, I'm not going to hold my breath for this. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 13, 2014 - 10:50pm | We really don't know who this guy is or if he is legit. I would hope that he gets more freedom to talk from his management and involves the community here in resurrecting the game and doesn't just go ahead without us and create a Frankenstein monster that we all have to ignore. -iggy |
February 14, 2014 - 5:53am | We really don't know who this guy is or if he is legit. I would hope that he gets more freedom to talk from his management and involves the community here in resurrecting the game and doesn't just go ahead without us and create a Frankenstein monster that we all have to ignore.
I can tell you that there was a delay between his creation of a log in and this post of a few weeks. I know this because I try to post a greeting on the guestbook of every new user to the forum and I keep a mental note of who the last log in was that i did this for which also helps me notice when a new log in makes a first post. So he's had the login and only just now started posting. But something is just odd about the wording in his first post a phrase like " past publications of the game" while I suppose is technically correct comes off as weird since the game only was in print for a brief window of time before it was killed and never really went through multiple publications or editions. Also something about the post feels like it was compose in another language and translated into English via a web based translation program hence my first suspicious response. I can say that I will be rather pissed if this is a bogus stunt. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 14, 2014 - 12:21pm |
Hello Everyone, I plan to respond with a more detailed post, very soon, I apologize for the short message, I have been overly consumed with work obligations. Thanks "For the love of Games, will you get your head out of that book and roll some dice!" |
February 14, 2014 - 7:36pm | Ignore the peanut gallery, Star. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 February 14, 2014 - 7:46pm | I can tell you that there was a delay between his creation of a log in and this post of a few weeks.
More importantly, was the account creation prior to AnimuX inquiry to Hasboro/WotC that he referenced in the thread "Out of Print Out of Motivation"? I used to be the technical component to a ninja sales team at a past company. Someone would ID a client the company would like (95% of the time the target company had RFP's out). We'd sign up for their site and do a complete analysis of the current infrastructure and add recommendations to the proposal. So it is possible someone in a position of power who loves SF became aware of the fan material. Spent a while clicking around, checking things out, downloading and reading content, and now is exploring a new release that would profit by leveraging the volume of fan material. Or perhaps someone looking to buy the IP from the current owner. Either way, if true, would likely be a good thing. If false, hey, ninja sales team background information, just add goons with lasers, something to buy/steal from the other megacorp, and cyberpunk up a SF adventure. |
 February 15, 2014 - 5:07pm | I think it's important to preserve the setting and core aspects of SF if there is going to be a revival of the game. When it comes to 'modernizing' the settings, I think it would be great to improve on the game concepts of technology and space travel. Mix in as much real science (within reason) with the fiction as possible. (edit: but still allowing for the 'fantastic') The game must feature stories of exploration and adventure in an open -- but often mysterious -- frontier of worlds. The stuff that inspired the imaginations of youths who played the original. I would like to see the whole spectrum of gaming applied to anything new with SF: * A re-release of the tabletop RPG preserving as much of the original as commercially possible * An online version that allows players to pick up a desktop computer, or smart phone or a tablet, and start or continue a game (individually with NPCs or perhaps even coordinated with a group) * A PC/console video game that keeps the essentials of role playing through a story where the players choices affect the outcome -- like Mass Effect but in the SF universe * An MMORPG would be fantastic too but I'm not sure that would be as successful considering the overhead and competition * Stories that appeal to younger and older gamers for new modules/games/etc Edit: * And of course all of the fun stuff possible to expand on the SF universe. Books, comics/manga, and other storytelling taking place in the SF universe. * Most importantly, allow the players and fans to run/publish their own SF setting 'adventures' or game campaigns under CreativeCommons Sharealike noncommercial licenses -- they can give full credit to the owner of SF and still legally share their own stories with others. |
February 15, 2014 - 6:03pm |  I didn't complete anything other than this 'proof' of what the basic front end might look like since WotC won't allow me to build the thing. But this was how I conceived of using the web to revive interest in the game, in part. The idea was, log in to the site and then create a character and play a campaign all in the browser. It would be a simple programmed adventure based on various SF modules or even fan created modules. Anyway, without permission it can't be built. But I would like to see something like this, and much more robust, if SF was rebooted/re-released. |
 February 15, 2014 - 6:21pm | AnimuX - that is epic. Could something like this be done through the OGL? I mean there are a lot of "retroclones" out there for various editions of D&D. Couldn't there be something like that for Star Frontiers? |
February 15, 2014 - 7:01pm | OnceFarOff -- I don't know for certain other than WotC told me specifically not to build this sort of website. I imagine they could have mentioned OGL stuff if it was possible but all I got was an emphatic no. :( Edit: If it were really taken seriously the site could perhaps allow players to create their own modules on the site and invite their friends to play through -- store stats and offer achievements and more. I thought, at least for an amateur project, the whole thing would work in HTML, PHP, and some Java script, with MySQL for a database. |
 February 15, 2014 - 6:59pm | It would be awesome to see a new effort into bringing back Star Frontiers. Keeping the Sf universe, the feel, ease of play, and all of the fan infrastructure, would be a key to winning the community over to it. I shall wait and see what happens. |
 February 15, 2014 - 7:40pm | Can I get a copy of that logo? I love it. I'm curious how you made it. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
February 15, 2014 - 8:35pm | The logo (assuming you mean the SF header at the top) is just made with a basic couple of effects in photoshop. Text done with a SF font, bevel/emboss with countour effect, drop shadow, and a 2pixel border. Edit: Check messages |
February 15, 2014 - 8:25pm | Well, you make my font look good. I'll have to play around and see if I can reproduce it. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
February 16, 2014 - 4:08am | * An online version that allows players to pick up a desktop computer, or smart phone or a tablet, and start or continue a game (individually with NPCs or perhaps even coordinated with a group) * A PC/console video game that keeps the essentials of role playing through a story where the players choices affect the outcome -- like Mass Effect but in the SF universe * An MMORPG would be fantastic too but I'm not sure that would be as successful considering the overhead and competition. All of those things, especially the last two, would be extremely intensive in terms of production and, more importantly, would require a lot of money. In terms of a SF revamp, they would be the ones that are most likely to (a) not get off the ground and (b) fail even if they do. IMHO, a centralised production house for all new publications would be the most constructive option - although there would be a need for various creative directors in order to keep a consistent quality to the output. This has been done to good effect with various OSR D&D clones... mostly. |
 February 16, 2014 - 5:13pm | at bossmoss Not trying to start any kind of argument but I just wanted to offer this as food for thought. What is so horrible about re-imagining the art, maybe what they come up with will be better. The whole problem with role playing games is that they take place in your imagination so every player, artist, or GM will imagine things in their game differently. The way Elmore sees a Vrusk will be different then the way that another artists will see or envision a Vrusk. |
February 16, 2014 - 5:42pm | Because the original Vrusk had feet, with toes, and the d20 Vrusk has no feet at all, just a sword edge for a leg. In a game, this can make a difference. Maybe one artist thinks Vrusk have 6 legs instead of 8, and another decides they have no antennae at all, or yet another decides to "reinvent" them with wings. This might be fine for the artist, but it wreaks holy hell with the players, who are known for being very precise and analytical. This kind of problem comes up a lot during the actual role-playing experience, and has been the source of many arguments between gamers for decades. There always needs to be an "official" version (preferably the oldest version), in order to prevent players from bickering (as they tend to do) over details that seem unimportant to the artist, but can make a huge difference in what someone can do when actually playing a character in the game. |
February 16, 2014 - 6:11pm | I agree with Bossmoss. Reworkings tend to go badly - some artists tend to throw in too many disperate influences at the expense of what has been carefully created and adhered to when an RPG was in it's heyday. Vrusks, for example, had a pretty consistent physiology from artist to astist within TSR. Trampier, and Holloway for example. |
February 16, 2014 - 6:34pm | We could write up the specification of each race. Examples of in spec drawings such as the AD, KH, and module illustrations would also help. Detail all the characteristics, feet, antennae, etc. then an artist has guidelines to keep the race from diverging from the plan but allows freedom for exploration. Thus an artist can draw variations within the species like we see among humans. We have a variety of facial characteristics, but our anatomy is consistant. We have variation in height, but our form is consistant. We have hair and skin variety, but there are bounds as to biologically produced colors and locations for hair and colors for skin. We do not get this stuff with the SF races as depicted because they never developed that much and the majority of the art was black and white sketches. I am for a conservative middle ground, be true to physiology, but explore variation. Some species will lend well to racial variation. Some species may be vary uniform. -iggy |
 February 16, 2014 - 7:07pm | Reworkings tend to go badly - some artists tend to throw in too many disperate influences at the expense of what has been carefully created and adhered to when an RPG was in it's heyday. Vrusks, for example, had a pretty consistent physiology from artist to astist within TSR. Trampier, and Holloway for example.
And then there's Rob Liefeld... http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/6/14/3084348/the-second-40-worst-rob-liefeld-drawings |
