 January 26, 2014 - 6:56pm | I have long felt that the stats for creatures in SF are a bit generic. There is not much to distinguish one creature from another in the stats. The AD rules stat out the following: TYPE: SIZE: NUMBER: MOVE: IM/RS: STAMINA: ATTACK: DAMAGE: SPECIAL ATTACK: SPECIAL DEFENSE: NATIVE WORLD: I propose that creatures should get full stats like characters. Also, I would like input on INT and how to break it down from simple creature intelligence to sapient being. Then also on how to grade the levels of all the other stats. -iggy |
 January 26, 2014 - 9:08pm | That's not a bad idea. You do have to watch out that you don't end up like D&D 3.5 and have a page full of stats that are mostly used once in a blue moon. Also, I would like input on INT and how to break it down from simple
creature intelligence to sapient being. Then also on how to grade the
levels of all the other stats. This is going to be hard. Characters can have rare scores below 30. I think a Yazirian could start out with a Strength as low as 10. Some of the fan made races could have mental abilities in the same range. Most man-sized animals are as strong or stronger than very strong people. Chimps are supposed to be 4 times as strong as a human on an equal weight basis. Then again, they often have quirks we don't have. For example, the muscles that hold a crocodile's jaws shut are incredibly strong, but the ones that open them are weak enough that you can hold a croc's jaws shut with your hands. Game considerations also apply. No human being on earth could break out of the grip of a brown bear. The Volturnian Cave Bear is more than twice the size and should be much stronger but PC's are given an escape chance. I'd say as a starting point, a creature has a strength equal to its stamina, with a bonus of +50 for large creatures and +100 for giant ones. Modify this according to the type of creature and what seems right. Stamina is handled. Dex should be equal to reaction speed, again the size and type of creature should come into consideration. I'd give tiny and small creatures a +50 and +25 bonus, with large and giant having matching penalties. Many dexterity tasks are going to be impossible for creatures that lack thumbs or hands. Mental abilities are much harder. I take the view that none of the abilities represent intelligence. I've seen far too many players try to justify why having low mental abilities doesn't mean their character is actually less intelligent to want to walk that road again. Quoting from the remastered edition here: Intuition measures a character's alertness and ability to draw conclusions from what seem to be unrelated facts. Animals tend to be very alert but almost none of them have any ability to draw conclusions from unrelated facts. I'd say most animals should be around a 10 or so. I'd give domestic animals a +50 bonus on certain checks, +70 for wild animals. Herbivores can only use this bonus to avoid surprise or detect danger. Carnivores and omnivores can use it to track, to avoid or cause surprise, and to detect danger. Logicis a character's ability to solve problems in an orderly, step-by-step way. Animals have almost no ability to do this. Give them a 10. Domestic omnivores and carnivores, as well as wild omnivores, often have natural cleverness or enough exposure to man's ways to figure out simple traps or puzzles. I'd give those a +25 bonus. If your velociraptors can open doors, they get the bonus. Animals like chimps, ravens, parrots, octopi, and dolphins might justify actual scores of 25-35 in these two abilities. Highly trained dogs and pigs probably deserve scores of 15-20. I'd still give them all the bonuses though. Personality measures how well a character gets along with other intelligent beings. Wild animals don't do this. Give them a score of 0-10. Animals that make good pets or personal companions might get the same range as characters. Guard animals should probably have lower scores. Ducklings have Per scores exceeding 250. Leadership measures a character's ability to give orders that other people will understand and obey. The only real uses I can see for this are in herding animals (kind of) and animals that herd other animals, like sheep dogs. 0-10 unless specially trained, even then a bonus is probably more appropriate. Service animals like seeing eye dogs might be an exception, or maybe Lassie uses Leadership to get Timmy out of the well. It's a bit of a stretch. In most systems, I find myself working out a generic creature that I can use any time I need a quick adversary. The base AD stats are pretty close to what I'd use for that. More stats are fun (I'd love to write up system briefs and ecological reports for all the creatures) so don't take this as discouragement. I almost never make up full NPC's in any system unless they're recurring or ones the players need stats for. STA, Attack, Damage is enough. Mooks don't even need stamina, they fall after 1 or 2 hits. Edit: I do not intend to be this long winded. :/ |
 January 26, 2014 - 9:34pm | Well it seems like STR would be connected to Stamina, though a creature could have a high STA and a low STR or vice a versa depending on the critter. INT/LOG scores, seems like beasties would have good INT skills but lower LOG skills. If sentient race NPC INT/LOG skills are 45/45 or 50/50 then animals should be way lower in LOG but maybe same or higher in INT? If IQ score ratings in RL run from 10-200 then figure to convert divide by 2 which gives a 5 to 100 range... rough numbers... 50% of population is 90-110 = SF 45-55 seems to match nicely with NPC average in AD. IQ 135-144 Highly Gifted = SF 68-72 IQ 145-154 Genius = SF 73-77 IQ 155-164 Genuis = SF 78-82 IQ 165-179 High Genuis = SF 83-89 IQ 180-200 Highest Genuis = SF 90-100 IQ 200 + Immeasurable Genuis = SF 100+ IQ 50-70 Mild Mental Retardation = SF 25-35 IQ 35-50 Moderate Mental Retardation = SF 16-25 IQ 20-35 Severe Mental Retardation = SF 10-16 IQ 10-20 Profound Mental Retardation = SF 5-10 So looking at this I would figure beasties would range from 0 (for basic fungus) to the 35 for say higher thinking animals? It looks like the Normal Sentient IQ Range is 70-134 = SF 35-67 Maybe Gurps inspired break down like this might help us hammer it out: Vegetable = SF 1 = Barely Awake = Infant Insect = Cannot Walk Child Reptile = 3 year old child Horse = 4 year old child Dog = 6 year old child I am not sure what the #'s should look like for everything but this is a start... Chimpanzee = 8 year old child Child = 10 year old child Dull = SF 35-39 = 13 year old Dull Average = SF 40-44 Average = SF 45-50 Gifted = SF 51-67 Highly Gifted = SF 68-72 Genius Minus = SF 73-77 Genuis = SF 78-82 High Genuis = SF 83-89 Highest Genuis = SF 90-100 Immeasurable Genuis = SF 100+ "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
 January 30, 2014 - 10:43am | My Adventure Pets article has a simple fix to this issue. I think it is all that's really needed. But I did come up with a means of converting monster templates in an article for the Barebones Fantasy system that never got printed because there's been no issue 2 of Decahedron. But note particularly how I handled the conversion of LOG and WIL. (INT/LOG and PER/LDR in Star Frontiers.) View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 January 30, 2014 - 12:24pm | Just had an interesting idea: Ascent's zeridactyl battle mount is from Volturnus. So who rides it? The sky-mor do! an aggressive tribe of ul-mor that converted to riding the zeridactyls instead of lopers. Note: that in the Star Spawn of Volturnus module the ABC quest given by the kurabunga to determine if they will help the PCs in the Battle of Volkos is to recover the golden idol stolen by a giant bird from a high mountain. I always thought that encounter was a little underwhelming but recovering a golden idol from an aggressive semi-hostile tribe of ul-mor that is a little more interesting. And since the ul-mor racial brief notes that they are natural born raiders with little concept of personal property (they will take things left unattended) then sky-mor stealing the idol is much more logical. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 30, 2014 - 6:10pm | My Adventure Pets article has a simple fix to this issue. I think it is all that's really needed. But I did come up with a means of converting monster templates in an article for the Barebones Fantasy system that never got printed because there's been no issue 2 of Decahedron. But note particularly how I handled the conversion of LOG and WIL. (INT/LOG and PER/LDR in Star Frontiers.)
I see, yes the Barebones is very good logic on this. "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
January 30, 2014 - 11:19pm | I also like the idea of an ul-mor tribe who have taken to the air. I would see them as more aloof than the others because they can be. Their mode of nomadic transportation makes it easier for them to hide from others and look down upon the others that didn't have the courage to tame a flying mount. This has me thinking about the ul-mor as a species. Their method of locomotion is best designed for in the water but the erona genetic engineering gave them the mind link ability. For them to compete with other species on land, linking with a creature that has good locomotion is a survival trait that allowed them to prosper when other variations of erona genetic engineering may have failed. I would bet that each band of ul-mor has adopted a mount creature that they have bonded with. Potentially the erona tinkered with the various mount creatures as well to make them more receptive to the ul-mor. I will be reading Ascent's work deeper to see how I might better stat out creatures in the future. -iggy |
January 31, 2014 - 3:25am | We also know that the eorna continually tinker with their project species but one side effect of the sky-mor taking to the air is that they have escaped this tinkering, thus they are more primitive, savage if you will. their mountie erie is difficult to access and they do look down on the rest of Volturnus as iggy suggests.They very much are an antagonist for the PCs. Building on the mind linking with a creature that provides better locomotion: extrapolate 100 years into the future where the ul-mor have sent individuals to schools at the city of Volkos or corporate sponsored schools at their enclaves and brought greater degrees of civilization back to their species, some of the natives have even taken work off planet, on ships, etc. A new tech comes about where the ul-mor can link to the "AI" of a ship. Thus one individual can replace most of the crew. problem is that ul-mor are social creatures so this project is not mentally healthy for them, they get a little loopy. ship operated by mind linked ul-mor has one set of performance stats (high) and same ship operated by regular crew has a totally different set of performance stats (low). Still trans travel is plowing ahead with the project requardless of the warning signs. NOTE to self: stop hijacking this thread and start a new one in the Voltunrus Revisited project later tonight to work on the sky-mor and potentially a magazine write up. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
