 January 17, 2014 - 11:55am | So... I'm thinking I might need to run a quick one session warm up for my upcoming big ship adventure so I'm having them enjoying some R&R on Yast in the Athor system. Do you think the super material needed to realize the concept of a space elevator or space tether would exist in SF? Yes I know in "my game" I can do whatever I want, but based on other tech levels in the game would you think this is still out of thier grasp and that they simply must rely on shuttles to move things into low orbit and supply ships? I'm just trying to come up with short one shot ideas for my crewmen of an undetermined "alignment". I'm hoping to leave it totally up to them if they are Good Guys representing the UPFSF or Bad Guys expanding the reach of the UPFSF by force.... so.... I don't know if my characters will help the helpless or exploit them. I've been running a lot of bronze age style "supers" games so I want to let them now I've no expectations on thier morality. ----------------------------------------------- |
 January 17, 2014 - 1:09pm | The alloy federanium exists in the setting and its ill defined as to what it is. Zebs refers to body building as "pumping federanim" which implies its the new iron: a go to metal for strength and industrial uses. I dont think that the lack of a space elevator in the real world is about the engineering but rathar an issue of materials science. That we wont be able to build it till there is a breakthru in lighter stronger materials. So go with a space elevator if you like. I'd put it on a planet with hvy population at least and a resource or industry economy. There is no mention of it in the WoWL module so perhaps not on Clarion. Gran Quivera would be a good candidate since its the most likely planet to have the "maxi-city" mentioned in the hvy population explantion in either AD or Zebs. But I would think Terledrom of Fromeltar or Minotaur or a Rim system could be good locations as well. EDIT: I would go with either 3 existing spread throughout the frontier or there is only one and its considered an engineering marvel of the frontier. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 17, 2014 - 1:43pm | An interesting adventure could be a dead civilization (or as Miracle Max would have put it "Mostly dead which is partly alive") that had a space elevator. PCs arrive in system exploring or by misjump and discover the remains of this civilization's space infrastructure. It gives them something to explore initially but the adventure would transition to the surface. More stuff would happen on the surface with bad guys involved (cue the sathar, zuraquor or mechanons) and for a really climatic ending you could have the elevator come down- its old and in disrepair and bad guys crash a vehcile into it or whatever. Remnants of the dead civilization could be cryo-sleeping sapients, super computer AI, ghost in the machine sapients that uploaded their personality matrix and memories to the super computer, androids, I like the idea of the civilization reduced to barbarism and a super computer/AI running things. And then a mechanon faction coming for their own agenda (just to give the Sathar a rest). This gives you parties A,B, and C to deal with/negotiate with/ fight with. And the super computer/ AI should have its "finger on the button" so to speak such that it has control of the remaining dooms day weapons of the civ. be they ICBMs or other. EDIT: ooops sorry for going off topic with this post but you got me thinking. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 17, 2014 - 8:18pm | I think the tech level is appropriate for a space elevator. The setting having defense fields would point that way IMO. In my setting, I had the RIM coalition introduce the space elevator. The CFM developed the first ones, and had a monopoly on the tech. |
January 18, 2014 - 6:22am | Yeah Jedi I was sort of thinking Yast in the Athor system might not be rich enough being Moderate and Agricultural. I was thinking sabotage of the elevator by Sathar agents as a plot hook but I'll keep thinking of something else. And yeah... we have the engineering to make a space elevator now, just not one that won't break due to lacking of a super material. Where is Tony Stark when we need him? ----------------------------------------------- |
 January 19, 2014 - 4:36am | I don't think the materials technology for an elevator is beyond the sort of things possible for Star Frontiers. |
 January 19, 2014 - 9:17am | I'll take the contrary position here. While the technology and materials science in the Frontier are probably sufficent, I don't think a space elevator fits in with the setting. At least not how I envision it. I like to keep my Frontier "ship poor" and make spaceflight relatively expensive. A space elevator changes all that making access to orbit relatively cheap and easy. Plus I see it a just too big of a target for sabatours and sathar attacks. If it were to collapse, it would rain death and destruction down on the planet as the materials and such fell to the surface. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
January 19, 2014 - 2:14pm | Getting into space isn't necessarily the same as travelling through space, so an elevator may still work conceptually in a 'ship poor' frontier. |
January 19, 2014 - 4:25pm | Getting into space isn't necessarily the same as travelling through space, so an elevator may still work conceptually in a 'ship poor' frontier. I see a space elevator more as a desire to move large quantities of material into and out of space quickly- more of an economic consideration that saves money over shuttles and small rockets. How many shuttles would you need to fill a HS17 freighter? By cannon a lot and all those launches would be putting wear on a planet's ozone layer so a space elevator would be an environmental consideration for a world that has high volume import or export. True it would be a target for the sathar especially at the outset of a war where one missile hitting it rains down death and destruction. An elevator would not be allowed on any world lacking significant ground based anti ship weapons. i do believe KHs suggest that developed worlds have 1000's of missile and cannons that can shoot orbiting star ships. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 19, 2014 - 9:32pm | I think if a terroist blew up the elevator at the top connection the station at the top of the teather should fly off into space. The teather would then wrap with the spin of the planet crashing into the ground as it went. If the terroist blew up the ground connection then the weight of the teather could pull the station down from orbit and fall to the ground with the direction of the planet spin. -iggy |
January 20, 2014 - 4:21am | I would think blowing up the bottom would more likely cause the tether station to fly off. the dangling tether might cause some damage as it swings along the ground but eventually I think it would rise up and fly off with the loose space based anchor. I agree I think with Terl. It does sort of not fit the setting. Perhaps the idea has been tried but due to some act of terrorism the usage of a space elevator fell out of favor precisesly because it is too big a target for Sathar agents. ----------------------------------------------- |
January 20, 2014 - 4:22am | Maybe at some point I'll have that act of terror play out in game as one of the first space elevators go up.... but probably won't work on Yast. ----------------------------------------------- |
 January 20, 2014 - 4:53am | Whether your SF universe is ship poor or ship rich, if you play with the KH rule of only hull size 3 or less can land in atmosphere then a space elevator is really needed just to get things up to orbit. Thinking on it if you are ship poor than a space elevator would be more in demand as you have fewer ships to get you into orbit. Personally I like the Firefly amount of ships in the Verse. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
January 20, 2014 - 5:03am | I'm thinking System Ships are much more plentiful than Void capible ships. When you say Ship Poor I'm inclinded to suggest that really means Void Jump capable ship-poor more than system. I need to check is Yast has a space station. It would also make since for a planet to use a obiting station as the main frieght middle-man. So shuttles can be constantly sending materials up to a station for sale once a ship docks. ----------------------------------------------- |
 January 20, 2014 - 11:45pm | http://gassend.net/spaceelevator/breaks/index.html Simulations on cut space elevator tethers. Also a lot else. |
January 21, 2014 - 12:19am | OK, after watching the simulations I see my thoughts confirmed. The safety procedure to stop the teather wrapping around the planet and crashing down is automated explosive disconnect. If the teather breaks then the base should blow it's connection to release the teather to be flung away. Also the teather base location should be choosen so it is on the west coast of a west to east spinning planet like Earth. The ocean should be a large one like the Pacific. This way if air drag pulls the teather down then the ocean and not land takes the crash. Space side a large area of clearance must be declared a keep-out zone incase of emergency. -iggy |
January 21, 2014 - 12:53am | http://www.spaceward.org I think that's the site. Apparently, if we can figure out how to manufacture carbon nanotubes (or a related material) long enough, a space elevator could be composed of a bunch of relatively thin and light cables, light in this case being a few hundred to a couple thousand tons. If you install your disconnect at the top of the atmosphere, you only have a downrange area of the thickness of your atmosphere, a few tens of kilometers. Note that those simulations don't take into account atmospheric effects. Most materials would burn up on reentry or lose most of their tensile strength, so you shouldn't get any kind of cable wrapping even in the worst case. |
 January 21, 2014 - 10:32am | This orbital elevator talk is making me go back to Gundam 00. And you should have seen the chaos when one of them started to fall. Every city within a 200km on one side was threatened by the debris that didn't burn upon reintery. Shame no Gundams or mobile suits in SF. In Gundam 00 the orbital elevators were not just for getting things into orbit, they were also used to move power from solar collectors back down to earth. If you can get around the giant robots, or maybe that's your thing like me. Gundam 00 has a good example of orbital elevators. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
October 22, 2014 - 6:56pm | I am starting a game with my 7 year old son. I am setting it before the Earth gets starflight, on a space elevator terminal station. In my Sol system one major difference Jupiter will radiate much more heat and light, making some of the moons habitable. I see the campaign progresssing into something like Firefly's 'Verse, before the Browncoat war. |
October 23, 2014 - 11:29am | @Elethana: You might want to check out the Sol Frontiers project which was a project for discussing the development of the Sol system into a setting. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
