 January 13, 2014 - 10:02am | I'm currious as to how far one can go in a chain of command with conflict and insubordination? I've heard stories where a friend who speaks arabic was always sent on point in Iraq because he spoke the langauge till one day he got sick of it and told the sgt. to go F*** himself to which the sgt simply ordered someone else on point. By brother being mindful of the historic fact that the North Koreans had killed captured medics told his Lt. No when ordered to put his name on his medics aid bag which he intended to loose if the balloon had gone up when he was serving on the DMZ and if it looked like he was going to be overrun and captured. (He had his aid bag specially modified by athe cobbler to clip to the outside of his assault pack and his plan was to simply clip it to the pack of a convient casulty. He had already sanitized anything else on his person that would identify him as a medic). I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 13, 2014 - 10:56am | It depends on the individuals in the chain of command. The unit I was in was super lax. And the NCOs at the top were kind of an old boyz club. One PFC in our unit busted a SSG stealing hardware COLD and the PFC got in trouble, while the SSG did not. But then we trained with the 1st ID, and one of their 1SGs called by the moniker "Max-me-out-Moske" would take anyone's article 15 punishment to the absolute max. So I can totally see a fire team member telling his NCO off and getting away with it... |
 January 13, 2014 - 4:39pm | My father-in-law was a drill sergeant in the army. According to his anecdotes (which are plentiful), it really depends on the personality of the CO. |
 January 13, 2014 - 7:22pm | Yes personality is huge... Some people in charge care only about certain ranks, everyone else is to be misstreated. Some people think you lead with fear. Some people think always shouting means your leading. Sigh. Some people are simply poor leaders and do not know it. They know not how to inspire. "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
January 13, 2014 - 7:45pm | My father-in-law was a drill sergeant in the army. According to his anecdotes (which are plentiful), it really depends on the personality of the CO.
This is the general feedback I'm getting. IIRC my father said he had attended four leadership schools in his rise to E9 over the course of 27 years. When I found myself in a leadership position in college I sat down with him to pick his brains on the topic and even made off with one of his air force manuals. So it seems to me that at least for the Air Force makes an effort to train NCOs whether they actually get it can be another matter and of course personality and character will enter into decisions that leadership bears on as well.I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 13, 2014 - 8:23pm | NCO's often lead better then officers. "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
 January 14, 2014 - 5:36am | There are two factors which lead to the determination of punishment (actually alot more but two important ones) One is as stated the personality of the leadership making the decision but equally important is the culture of the military unit. Warrior groups are many and varied and each hold there own values. Viking raiding bands were big on the loot and pillage while the Knights Templar not so much. The former Soviet Army believed that officers were totally responsible for their soldiers to the point where Division Commanders could recieve reprimands for a Private shoplifting. This lead to murders and rapes being covered up. Of course if you look up the current U. S. Military's sexual assualt scandals you can find out alot about this group's handling of punishments. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
January 14, 2014 - 6:09am | The sathar lobotomize and demote from one caste to another for punishment. Imagine being a being with four visual feeds going into your brain and a brain able to process all that and facing the prospect of lobotomization where you will loose the ability to use on lobe of you brain? that would be scary and a significant deterent for proscribed behavior. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 14, 2014 - 9:58am | Well, that and they are hard core enough to be seeminly willing to commit suicide before being captured.... pretty much to the man... or in this case... worm. ----------------------------------------------- |
January 14, 2014 - 6:45pm | Some commands take sexual assault serious. But yes culture is important. What is allowed and by whom and for who. However, it also depends, a high ranking/placed individual can find no friends or few in certain circumstances even if no one believes the charges, military paranoia can result in the people who did the right thing being viewed with suspicion (example catching a spy), dependent family can exercise power (officer wives in spat, but one wife is a daughter of a general), all sorts of weirdness in the politics of being people can effect military justice, promotion, work environment and inquires... it shouldn't but every example I listed is a RL example I know of. "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
January 15, 2014 - 12:26pm | I just sounded out my dad on this issue, he gave me an example from his first tour stationed in Spokane Washington. He was a medic at the time with a drafted surgeon as his captain over their dispensery which had a total of 49 people. The captain was just doing his time with no intent of pursuing a military career and was going straingt back to his practice when his tour was up. One day the Lt. Col. who was the asst. base commander came in and informed this captain that he was going to have to put his enlist people on the rotation for KP duty. The captain told the Col. that he would do that just as soon as the Lt. Col. put the entire base on the ambulance driver rotation. The Lt. Col. sputtered and about that and the captain told him no and to get out of his office and while he was at it to inform the base commander that he was scheduled for a physical tomorrow and that since the base commander wasn't looking so good to the captain he wasn't sure if he pass the physical and be able to remain on flight status. Hour latter the commander stopped by and low and behold none of the dispensery personnel had to go on the rotation for KP duty. So if an officer has nothing to lose he can probably get away with more. Though Dad said that even when officers are not in the same chain of command they try to avoid pissing in each other's wheaties. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 17, 2014 - 10:37am | LOL - that is a great anecdote. |
January 18, 2014 - 10:09am | Although not brought out too much, you did see some of what Jedion described in the TV series MASH. Our heroes being draftee surgeons and the career people being the butt of many jokes. While this makes for "fun" TV and is the usual American hero let us take a quick look at the other side of the story. Most likely the dispensary personnel were being put on KP rotation because they were enlisted personnel eating in the dining facility and were being asked to assist. While the other sections were doing KP rotation, they were being pulled from their duties and training leaving the other sections shorthanded and not as well trained as they could be. So you have a rogue officer doing what he wants when he wants and threatening the careers of other officers just because he didn't want to give up personnel for a fair and reasonable request. Wonder how your Dad would have liked it if he was in one of the other sections and found out he had to do more KP becuase the dispensary personnel were exempt because their CO could threaten the base commander? And yes if he knew the story then everyone on the base knew the story, word gets around. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
