 August 20, 2013 - 4:32am | We all agree that the orders of battle in the campaign game are way too low and that they should be highter. In fact the KHs book suggest that there are numerous other patrol goups which are typically made up of a Frigate and two assault scouts. so how do we expand the orders of battle? I've generally thought that a quick rule of thumb is to double or triple the numbers for a militia but this has an odd effect: militias with one destroyer already become substantially more powerful than a militia with just a few assault scouts and a planet not listed as having a militia gets left way behind in the dust. I think thinking that the rule might be based on population: for hvy populations systems triple the number of assault scouts, med double, for light add 1-2 industrial and resource economies get plus one ship, systems with star ship construction centers get plus one ship trade two of these assault scouts for a heavier ship like a frigate or destroyer. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 August 20, 2013 - 7:56pm | While we are expanding the Orders of Battle the Megacorps can not be forgotten. After all they own planets and do alot of exploring beyond the Frontier and Trans Travel most likely has an anti-pirate/anti-hijack/recovery fleet hanging around somewhere. And let us not forget Merco and GTF who both must have troop transports and those need escorts to get them to their destinations. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
August 21, 2013 - 4:07am | Good points, The expansion of the Frontier in Zebs came after KHs was published and it overlooked militias for the newer planets. In fact planets that didn' have void jumb capable militias quite possibly have them now. Should we discuss coporate planet militias here or in the corporat project? I can see discussing their orders of battle here at the same time as discussing the OB of the classic militias. Clearly the corporate militias are not really militias- citizens defending their homes but rather mercenaries. They are probably very good at their job but not very motivated to fight to the death. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
August 21, 2013 - 2:56pm | Interesting point. What exactly is a militia? Are the citizens of a Megacorp planet employees working as security when serving in their militia or are they loyal citizens born and raised on a planet owned by a Meagcorp defending their home? What about Spacefleet and Landfleet? Those beings do not work for any particular planet and could be considered just mercenaries for the largest Megacorp, the UPF. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 August 21, 2013 - 6:50pm | I'd think a militia ought to have more small craft, if they are looking to do customs inspections and the like. Three vessels is not a lot to run a 24/7 operation, but if there were shuttles or pinnaces to move inspectors and boarding teams about, things would run smoother. These, of course, won't show up in and OOB for KH. |
 August 21, 2013 - 7:20pm | I agree, it depends on how you define militia. For the MegaCorp planets, I think it would depend on your definition and exactly how the system is organized. Is everyone on the planet on the corporate payroll? Is there a separate planetary govenment from the corporate management heirarchy? Are the ships and crews payed for out of corprate payroll or the govenments? Are the ships permanently assigned in the system or are they given regular assignments out of system? Regardless, I think in the loosest definition of the term militia, which I take to be the force responsible for defense of the system, it doesn't really matter what the answers are. If they are ships assigned to the system, they form a militia. If you want a more strict definition, they the answers to those questions may make a difference. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
August 22, 2013 - 4:15am | I think Tom's definition of militia is the one we should go with. Its likely the one that would exist in the legal code of the UPF- system defense forces are classified as militia (with a good analog that applies most of the time being National Guard units in the US) and Space Fleet and Ground Fleet are analogous to a vollunteer federal force. KHs has statements that indicate that the writers were thinking of 18th century British navy when they designed Space Fleet. However, militias are going to have vastly different organization and philosophies based on domnant race and planetary culture. thus Tom's definition is the best. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
August 23, 2013 - 2:23pm | I've proposed that UPF legislation defines what a militia is and requires that it be to a certain standard to keep logistics uncomplicated when the militia is tapped to support space fleet out side of the system during a sathar incursion. But what about a system defense org that does not maintain the void campable fleet of Assault scouts or small warships of the Space Fleet design but instead keeps prize ships of yatchs and privateers and fighters? They are an ad hoc naval force and as useful as tits on a bull since it cant leave the system and be supported by the Space Fleet logistics fleet train. Perhaps some systems intentially skirt the requirements to be called a militia according to the UPF treaty not desiring that its warships be removed from covering its system. Systems with militia get some militiary aid and their militias train and work closely with Space Fleet but System Defense Forces do not. In fact some systems might have both a militia and a system defense force. Thus the campaign game militia orders of battle simply represent the vessels avaialbe to be deployed beyond the systems they are attached to but not the actual total military strength of those systems. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
August 23, 2013 - 2:51pm | Jedi, I like the distinction. I espcially like that the "militia" units get some aid from the UPF to help support them as an incentive. Maybe part of that aid is the right to purchase the modern military grade ships. Otherwise as you said, they have to do with civilian hulls, i.e. privateers, converted merchant vessels, etc. Which for in system work, patrols, customs inspections, etc is fine but in a pitched battle they're going to be found wanting. And I'd suspect that all system have "system defense force" that is over and above what can be called upon to support Spacefleet. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
August 23, 2013 - 4:29pm | Jedi, I like the distinction. I espcially like that the "militia" units get some aid from the UPF to help support them as an incentive. Maybe part of that aid is the right to purchase the modern military grade ships. Otherwise as you said, they have to do with civilian hulls, i.e. privateers, converted merchant vessels, etc. Which for in system work, patrols, customs inspections, etc is fine but in a pitched battle they're going to be found wanting. And I'd suspect that all system have "system defense force" that is over and above what can be called upon to support Spacefleet. What is a military hull? its simply a hull with greater degree of miniaturization and specialization that is built to specs demanded by a government. What is the difference between planetary governments and the UPF? Scale is obvious but if a planetary government is shelling out the dough I'm sure they could get a contractor to build a military hull. I think that the planetary governments can equally purchase military ships if they like and that this is the reason there are pirate assault scouts- Outer Reach does a bang up business purchasing surplus assault scout hulls for "system defense purposes" and selling them to "contractors" with a mark up. The aid issue is simply what the US does with security interests in other nations- we provide aid weapons and material which buys us influence (sometimes) in that country. I think the military aid thing is simply the UPF buying influence in that they can "federalize" a militia unit at need hence the presence of a Royal Marine vessel in the Beyond the Frontier campaign. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 September 22, 2013 - 4:20am | The "System Defense Forces" would just be the in-system Militia. Those ships that can't make the void - fighters, shuttles, etc. They may design privateers, yachts, armed freighters and other ships that mount Chemical engines instead of Atomic. Speaking of which, what about Scoutships, Privateers and Yachts in the Militia?I understand the wish to double or triple the fleet size but, why not incorporate these ships first? Maybe the planets downplayed the standard ships because they did not want the UPF to "Borrow" their ships all the time. Also, their should be a clause in the law that cancels the UPF's control of a Militia ship if it's home system is invaded. |
September 22, 2013 - 7:42am | Also, their should be a clause in the law that cancels the UPF's control of a Militia ship if it's home system is invaded. Possibly but not a good idea. Military organizations work on discipline. Having a backdoor clause which says you can leave when you like is bad. First it would split forces which most be concentrated to win. Second giving the communication lag by the time the militia found out their homes had been invaded it would be too late for them to do much but rush into a trap. This brings up a minor point. Are militia ground forces called up in a Sathar invasion also? Does Landfleet go it alone while ground militia just stays home and waits around? Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
September 22, 2013 - 8:03am | Also, their should be a clause in the law that cancels the UPF's control of a Militia ship if it's home system is invaded. Possibly but not a good idea. Military organizations work on discipline. Having a backdoor clause which says you can leave when you like is bad. I understand but, it states "If militia ships are in an adjacent system when Sather ships emerge inside their home system, those ships must return home as quickly as possible." KH Expert page 58. I agree that it is not good but as it also states "the primary objective of the militia is to defend its home planet." The UPF is a confederation of planets. Funding for the Spacefleet is difficult so, I seriously doubt that they would pass a law giving control of their Militia to Spacefleet. This loop hole fits with the Confederacy government. |
