 October 13, 2012 - 4:41am | There isn't a lot of information about the Tetrarchs in AD or other source material, so we've each had to fill in the blanks ourselves. One direction that I've taken it is similar to that of the Ancients from Stargate, or the Progenitors/Preservers in Star Trek. They "planted" or "seeded" various species groups on different planets throughout space. So, you could find cultures of the core four (and Zeb species) on multiple planets, at different levels of civilization, and with slight-to-major variations in culture. For example, the spacefaring Vrusk we all know & love are found in the systems of K'aken-Kar, Kisk-Kar and K'tsa-Kar. But in the Epsilon system there is a pre-industrial civilization of Vrusk. Their culture is different. Closer to Sathar space, ruins have been found of yet another Vrusk culture which was much more violent than any Vrusk we know. The ruins indicate that these now-extinct Vrusk had fought off the Sathar for centuries, and eventually lost. That may have accounted for their aggressive nature. When people visit those inevitable uncharted planets in your game, what do they find? More humans? Weird aliens you made up yourself? Earthlike animals? Mysterious ruins? How do you play the Tetrarchs & unexplored planets? |
 October 13, 2012 - 5:15am | -I like the chess reference in the title -it gets me thinking -however, I dont know that I would want to paint tretrarch activity as broadly as you describe- its not quite a tetrarch behind every star system but moves in that direction nothing wrong with going in that way, just my knee jerk first reaction is perhaps not for me but you do have me thinking and if nothing else this idea whore likes to think about the Frontier. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 October 13, 2012 - 8:09am | I really like the ideas you presented. In my campaign setting, I have used the timeline that Jedion put forward for the core four, ie that the Vrusk are from the frontier, the Yazirians had a extinction level event on their homeworld and had to emigrate to the frontier, the Drals are a mystery who sent out a mysterious colony ship found by the Vrusk and the humans came from a colonization fleet that accidentally discovered the void and misked their mark by a few ten thousand light years and are now stuck in the Frontier. All that said, I am still thinking through the other parts of the equation in light of the Tetrarchs especially, and also the Klikks. I'm considering the Klikks as being one of the main civilizations to arise after the Tetrarchs, perhaps the ones responsible for ending their reign, not sure on that bit yet. My thumbnail sketch this far is that the Klikks had slave races: Sathar, Zuraqqor, etc. The Klikks are responsible for taking the Sathar from their homeworlds where the Ss'essu currently live and using them as slave labor/cannon fodder throughout space outside of the frontier. I'm still working out the big picture, but I plan to encircle the frontier with areas of space each as large as the frontier in every direction. To the WEST will be where the Klikk core worlds were, and the Ss'essu, as well as the destroyed remains of the Yazirian homeworld. To the North there will be some other race I have yet to determine (possibly something like the Protoss), but on the far side of a Sathar clan. Mixed in there somewhere I imagine the Dralasite homeworld. To the East will be another Sathar Clan, the Mhemne, and beyond that some other races. To the South will be free of Sathar and Klikks. I plan on having the lost colony ship from Jedion's history out there with a colony of some type. Also, a ways off I plan to have another area incorporating the races from Alternity, but sans humans. In all this, one of the main thoughts I'm having is that if the Tetrarchs or those who follow seeded planets with life, I'm planning on using different races than the core four as a baseline. The 'humans seeded throughout the galaxy with different bumps on their heads' is a bit overdone for me. I am looking at some humanoids though that would do the same thing. I'm still thinking the big picture through, but this is how I'm leaning. |
October 13, 2012 - 2:06pm | Nice to see I'm not the only one who says "North", "South" etc when talking about the SF map. Once, that's very cool. I have also had to map out the areas surrounding the Frontier, because you can only keep the players confined for a while before they start wanting to head out into the vast Expanse and explore! Just beyond the boundaries of the map are the Mhemne, Saurians, S'sessu & Notui. Also out there somewhere less specific are the Zuraqqor, Sathar & Clikks. How far does Sathar space go? Is it just one planet? Do they even have a planet at all? Or is it a vast empire? Perhaps they leave a trail of dead systems in their wake. All this stuff is up to the GM.  So jedion, what does lie beyond the Frontier for you, and how do you play the Tetrarchs? |
October 13, 2012 - 2:19pm | I have also had to map out the areas surrounding the Frontier, because you can only keep the players confined for a while before they start wanting to head out into the vast Expanse and explore! Just beyond the boundaries of the map are the Mhemne, Saurians, S'sessu & Notui. Also out there somewhere less specific are the Zuraqqor, Sathar & Clikks. How far does Sathar space go? Is it just one planet? Do they even have a planet at all? Or is it a vast empire? Perhaps they leave a trail of dead systems in their wake. Do you have your map in a format you can share? What did you do for Sathar home worlds? I'm planning on several systems for them, each clan having a few systems bordering the frontier. |
October 13, 2012 - 4:13pm | For me the tetrarchs are a mystery lost in the past that may or may not have had something to do with a majority of the core four being so tightly grouped in this area of space. That would be the dralasites, vrusk, and yazirians but since I like my humans being from Earth and having got here by a fluke of void travel there may not have been any tetrarch influence with humanity. Now since the tetrarchs means rule of four I imagine them as having four factions which under a progenitor theme evolved and developed four sapient species to inherit the galaxy. One of those species may have been something interesting like sathar or klickk or both and we just boot the dralasites out of the tetrarch's original plan or the yazirians. But as sad stories go there was some betrayl 10,000 years ago that caused one faction of the tetrarchs to turn on the others and its race went on a bloody binge forcing the other tetrarch entities or factions to sequester their races away. Fast forward 10,000 years and humans some how "accidently" show up in the Frontier and complete the orginal tetrarch symetry for a core four. I've also toyed with a archaeology story line where the PCs are delving into the mysteries of the tetrarch pyramids and open a portal to 10,000 years in the past to discover a lush ecosystem on Laco and a thriving civilization (one just on the verge of a collapse). PC get to play a role in that cataclysm before returning to the Frontier. I've toyed with the tetrarchs being four entities ala Star Trek's typical deus ex machina races that turned up all to often when the writers didn't have a clue. In my defense I've reasoned that a name for a 10,000 year old civilization must have some reason why its know as rule of four- something that the archaeologist find leads them to coin this name. Thus I like a powerful race or even four angelic like beings that are possibly the last of their kind and are doing the eorna impulse of "let us raise up replacement species" Infact after the cataclysm and fall of the tetrarch society on Laco one of the surviving tetrachs travelled to various planets and played with the evolution of various animals which then gave rise to a host of other sapient species to explain the plethora. mean while the evil tetrarch had set things in motion that led to great evils like the klikks, sathar, and the alien xenomorphs I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 13, 2012 - 4:27pm | I've also toyed with a archaeology story line where the PCs are delving into the mysteries of the tetrarch pyramids and open a portal to 10,000 years in the past to discover a lush ecosystem on Laco and a thriving civilization (one just on the verge of a collapse). PC get to play a role in that cataclysm before returning to the Frontier. That is a SICK idea. I know SF is a more low tech, realistic type setting rather than hard core sci fi, but the time travel ideas in come of the classic Sci Fi shows are so great. I'm still waiting for the perfect application for this idea, but I've thought a lot about having an ancient tetrarch machine cause the PCs to experience an event that they believe is time travel or even time and space, but they wake up in the same place. Kind of like the STNG episode "Time's Arrow" where an alien probe causes Picard to experience an entire life, old age, family, etc. where the time seems real to him and then he wakes up on the Enterprise and only an hour has passed. And he learned how to play the flute. |
October 13, 2012 - 4:47pm | Ahhh... so the PCs experience the lives of pregen characters 10,000 years in the past at the time of the fall of the tetrarchs and then wake up in their own bodies. This machine/artifact was left behind by a tetrarch so that one of their children species might find it and learn the truth. Thats cool to- PCs get to run a pregen and can even have a death scene. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 13, 2012 - 4:58pm | Ahhh... so the PCs experience the lives of pregen characters 10,000 years in the past at the time of the fall of the tetrarchs and then wake up in their own bodies. This machine/artifact was left behind by a tetrarch so that one of their children species might find it and learn the truth. Thats cool to- PCs get to run a pregen and can even have a death scene. That or have them appear as themselves in the program, but have the paramaters of the program include integrating them into the events. I figure an advanced race, a program whose purpose is to teach history... Plus, I personally would keep them in their own bodies so they had no idea what was going on until after they are done. And +1 on the death scene! My bad... Time's Arrow was the 2 parter where they run into Mark Twain. What I meant was "The Inner Light" |
 October 13, 2012 - 6:34pm | In StarGate SG-1 and in Atlantis there was tech that the characters were plugged into and they were able to experience other lives. I believe there a couple of scenarios, one was for history and another to entertain a collective mind. You could incorporate a technology like that. I believe there was an episode of ST Voyager too that had a computer that took care of a collective mind of stasis people. There are lots of ways to give the pc's a way to experience the past or alternate scenario and not kill off their characters. One episode of SG had the team being cloned into mentally into android bodies. Just some more ideas to throw out there. |
October 13, 2012 - 6:51pm | In StarGate SG-1 and in Atlantis there was tech that the characters were plugged into and they were able to experience other lives. I believe there a couple of scenarios, one was for history and another to entertain a collective mind. You could incorporate a technology like that. I believe there was an episode of ST Voyager too that had a computer that took care of a collective mind of stasis people. There are lots of ways to give the pc's a way to experience the past or alternate scenario and not kill off their characters. One episode of SG had the team being cloned into mentally into android bodies. Just some more ideas to throw out there. That's one thing a race like the Tetrarchs brings to the table. It gives a 'credible' opportunity for an experience normally outside the scope of SF, and can literally be a one shot thing with no contamination of the frontier if needed (the structure collapsed as your party exits...) |
 October 14, 2012 - 7:06am | Just caught up with this thread and have to say if you are going to go this way then you should look at Traveller and the entity known as Grandfather. Much of what you have discussed is covered in this background including an adventure taking place in numerous pocket universes during the search for Grandfather. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
October 14, 2012 - 7:22am | Rat what publications should we look at to see the background on Grandfather? there is a lot of traveller material out there. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 14, 2012 - 9:48am | There are two sources for the story of Grandfather or properly Yaskoydray. Both are from the original Traveller. The first is Adventure 12-Secret of the Ancients, by Marc Miller (1984). This is the definitive source, however this is one of the hardest to find (I am still looking and if anyone has one please let me know). The second is a little easier Alien Module 5-Dryone, by J. Andrew Keith and Marc Miller (1985) this book is larger and contains alot of reprinted material from previous sources but pages 44-45 cover the entire story. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
October 15, 2012 - 1:55am | @Once - sorry, my maps are all on paper. Low-tech, I know. I need to buy a scanner one of these days... I put the Sathar to the "North" of the Rim Coalition, because they come through the pass at Zebulon/Volturnus for SWII, and both Humma & Ifshnit have met them already, so they must be near the Rim. At least, that was my reasoning. The Zuraqqor are in that Northern region as well. They have scattered outposts or colonies surrounding the Frontier on all sides except the SW, which is where the Clikks are in my universe. They attack the Saurians from the South, and hit the Mhemne & Notui from the East or NE. However, they are spread pretty thin, and this would be an advantage for the UPF if they ever figured it out... @jedion - that is some cool stuff right there. Having the Tetrarchs destroy themselves is similar to what I did with my "Thinkers". I like the whole time travel angle, and the PCs getting mixed up in all of it... @rattraveller - I have incorporated a lot of Traveller stuff into my game. Yeah, I know what you're talking about with the Ancients. Used to play Traveller back when it was new. I remember a lot of those early booklets, but I don't have any today. Most of my Traveller stuff these days is in 3rd ed GURPS format. I'm reading some sweet ideas here... |
 October 21, 2012 - 6:22am | Any Tetrarchs I tend to play them down a bit, mostly as a assisting but not directly interfereing it the affairs. But I also find there should be opposing views from this. This pretty much goes back into the same sci-fi ideas from the Lensman series with the Arisians vs. the Eddorians which is where the Vorlons vs the Shadows came from. But for Tetrarchs I've broken then down into 3 groups, the forces of light which would help or create, the grey or shadow which only observe and record, and of course the forces of darkness or night which only exist to destroy. How I play them down is by having the PCs work as the pawns of which ever force is doing the moving, obviously most PCs would rather be on the side of light as the dark forces use thier chess peices as something to be used and disposed of later, but obviously PCs should not be allowed to know which side they are working for. Besides not everything needs to be of such a galactic importance, sometimes a corporation is evil just because they are. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
October 21, 2012 - 9:24am | One thing I liked about the Shadows and the Vorlons was that they weren't black and white. They were both assisting the younger races to develop but in two different ways. While some races may not appreciate being wiped out others did not appreciate the constant manipulations. Has anyone tried that approach where what you first think about the "Ancients" is really wrong? Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
October 21, 2012 - 5:08pm | One thing I liked about the Shadows and the Vorlons was that they weren't black and white. They were both assisting the younger races to develop but in two different ways. While some races may not appreciate being wiped out others did not appreciate the constant manipulations. When B5 was new I never watched it because ot looked lame to me. Must have been the first season... I just recently watched the first 3 seasons and it while at some points it was a real grind to get through the dialog, the Shadow war was an amazing "campaign" level plot. I say all that to say, I never saw the plot twist coming where the Vorlons were doing the same as the Shadows. I thought it was a great play on the Ancient civilzation trope. All that said, I prefer the SG-1/Mass Effect method, where they are long gone, with some ruins left behind, but pretty much out of the picture. But some of their child races (ie Klikks) are a more recent memory and some living examples can still be found. I guess B5 did that to some extent as well, but the younger "old races" were pretty active in the story... |
October 21, 2012 - 5:55pm | In B5 when the Commander found the real ancient one thing they had to do was collect the remnants of the other 5 old alien races to help in the final showdown between the the Alliance, Shadows and Vorlons. The real ancient one then took all of them out to new places so the young races could find their own way. Not real happy with the no accountability thing. Sorry we killed billions and genetically manipulated you but Dad showed up and we're off to find our true calling. Have fun. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
October 21, 2012 - 6:01pm | In B5 when the Commander found the real ancient one thing they had to do was collect the remnants of the other 5 old alien races to help in the final showdown between the the Alliance, Shadows and Vorlons. The real ancient one then took all of them out to new places so the young races could find their own way. Not real happy with the no accountability thing. Sorry we killed billions and genetically manipulated you but Dad showed up and we're off to find our true calling. Have fun. Exactly. B5 tried, but it was a little short on delivery in most occasions. It does give good brain fodder though. |
October 22, 2012 - 4:21pm | Well JMS was writting it for TV and all the problems that goes with it. So many things he originally planned didn't turn out that way, forcing him to take it in the direction that he did. It wasn't like most shows where they'd keep it going until the ratings tanked and they were forced to end it, there almost wasn't a 5th season which is why the end of the Shadow War seems very rushed. The fact it is was rushed what with the idea there wasn't going to be a 5th season. Which is also why the 5th season looks as if it were just tacked on closing loose ends and making some new ones. Really I thought it was well done for what they were limited to work with it. Such a shame we'll never see a Lensman get the treatment like that. It's anime version wasn't very good and mostly only glazed on the ideas from the books. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
 October 25, 2012 - 9:18pm | Well JMS was writting it for TV and all the problems that goes with it. So many things he originally planned didn't turn out that way, forcing him to take it in the direction that he did. It wasn't like most shows where they'd keep it going until the ratings tanked and they were forced to end it, there almost wasn't a 5th season which is why the end of the Shadow War seems very rushed. The fact it is was rushed what with the idea there wasn't going to be a 5th season. Which is also why the 5th season looks as if it were just tacked on closing loose ends and making some new ones. Really I thought it was well done for what they were limited to work with it. Such a shame we'll never see a Lensman get the treatment like that. It's anime version wasn't very good and mostly only glazed on the ideas from the books. I recall a different story entirely about B5. I read an article where the show was conceived, designed, and written to be a five year program. I can understand for production and budget reasons they may have had to push the story along towards the end but it did not seem terribly rushed when I watched it. There are alot of differnt stories out there on the internet about B5 and the one I ready may or may not have been accurate but it was quoted as an interview from JMS. |
October 26, 2012 - 1:06am | AZ, I read a magazine for B5, that stated there were already 5 seasons written, or at least plotted out. But Sargonarhes is correct that the 5th season was semi canceled then to get it finished they had to rush some things and IIRC the last season was taken on by another network. That part was not yet happening to be covered in the magazine. |
