 October 7, 2012 - 5:45pm | Stick with me on this. I am getting ready to do the NaNoWriMo (look that up yourself) and doing an SF story. Since the starships do not land on planets, started thinking of what those left on the ship might be doing while the cool characters are dirtside having all the fun. With grand-kids I have been watching alot of Jake and the Neverland Pirates. I started thinking those lazy pirates never do any real work on their ship like scrubbing the decks, sewing the sails or scraping the barnacles of the bottom of the ship. Then my brain combined the two. Now I know what your thinking, starships don't get living things attached to their hulls except in Star Trek (In Star Wars the living things try to eat the starships). But they do come into contact with alot of micro-debris. Here's the idea. The outer skin of a starship is designed to absorb all the micro-debris but this semi-permeable skin needs to be checked to make sure no large pieces have caused damage and the hull sections need to be cleaned of the accumulated mirco-debris. Like scraping barnacles off the hull of a water-craft. Those more familiar with Knight Hawks can work out the details. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 October 7, 2012 - 6:17pm | Interesting idea. It wouldn't even have to be a semi permeable skin. Just regular routine inspections of the hull looking for large damage points and places where the reflective paint (if you have an Reflective Hull) has been worn down and needs replacing. I've always imagined that the hulls of SF ships are relatively thick and not the relatively thin stuff NASA uses since they have to be able to stand up to taking damage and such. BTW, good luck with the writing. I should probably do that too this year. I'm glad you mentioned it. I almost did it last year. I could bang out the inital draft of the second book after my Discovery book. I'd do a SF one but I've already started that and have nearly 30000 words written so I'd have to do something else. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
October 7, 2012 - 8:25pm | No you have a 30,000 word outline and prep for NaNoWriMo. You know you can't start till Nov 1. Forgot about reflective hulls and how most ships have them so would need regular inspections. The ship I am writing about is an armed/armored merchant (cargo ship built on military design) so this would be necessary. After all gotta do something with those workpods. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
October 7, 2012 - 9:03pm | No you have a 30,000 word outline and prep for NaNoWriMo. You know you can't start till Nov 1.  It's definitely 30,000 words of story. The outline was only about 2000 words. But I do have the outline for the other story and have people asking me for it so maybe I'll dust it off, work on the background material some more, and write that one in November. Besides the SF one is probably going to morph into something different.Forgot about reflective hulls and how most ships have them so would need regular inspections. The ship I am writing about is an armed/armored merchant (cargo ship built on military design) so this would be necessary. After all gotta do something with those workpods. Plus, unless is it is a really big ship, overhauls will be frequent and that will require some work outside as well. Other external work items would include inspecting communication and sensor devices, checking the external seals on airlocks, and cleaning/resurfacing any portholes/windows that have been pitted due to the micrometeorites.
Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 October 8, 2012 - 12:21am | I have charts where we keep track of maintenance. If they get money & stop someplace where they can pay to have it done, they do that. However, most of the time they have to do it themselves, or have their semi-reliable robots do it. |
 October 8, 2012 - 4:41am | I read a Asimov novel where there was a Mars colony and the main character was going to Mars to write about it- ship he was on was holed by a mirco meteor at his cabin, the crew realized what had happened and concocted a plan to keep him busy elsewhere while they patched the hole so that he knew nothing of it- they just didn't want him writing about their ship being unsafe. I imagine that the crew of a big star liner have people on call and ready to eva with at least a work pod as I'm sure that passengers knowing that the ship is leaking air risks panic. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 8, 2012 - 5:06am | @Bossmoss Would like to see the maintenance charts if you can post them. @Jedion I would assume that all ship crews would practice hull puncture drills as well as fire drills and battle stations and other ship emergencies. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
October 8, 2012 - 7:57am | @Bossmoss Would like to see the maintenance charts if you can post them.
You'd assume that but it will take an authority enforcing it. If the captain or first mate got apathetic or lazy why would the crew bother? First one or two would sit on their butts then the rest would be; "Why should I do more work for the same pay?" Sure, because their life is on the line but human nature being what it is people just dont do what you expect, they do what you inspect. However, that said most ship crews will do this and most captains or owners will be sticklers about it. BTW i had a close friend who managed a charity devoted to seaman since the 1800' the charity had over time lost its religious component and shipping companies had become the trustees of the ministry which meant they used its resources as their own personal thing (kind of sad that was) but anyway my friend was asked to do a report and present it on why ships are lost at sea and after researching it very carfully he came to a conclusion that in 90% of all cases in the 1990's maintenance issues were principle contributers to a ship sinking. The trustees exploded and demanded he be fired and he was eventually forced to leave. @Jedion I would assume that all ship crews would practice hull puncture drills as well as fire drills and battle stations and other ship emergencies. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 8, 2012 - 4:23pm | @ rattraveller - It's nothing complicated. Just a list and a calendar. We list each part of the ship; electrical system, hydraulics, coolant, water pipes, conventional chemical engines, nuclear fission engines (which present all kinds of issues), Void engines (which need to be realigned every jump or two), hull integrity, oxygen tanks & air pressure, cryogenics and/or stasis chambers (Yazirians & Vrusk like their slugs & bugs fresh when they wake up), weapons systems, landing gear, computers, windshield & porthole integrity, shipboard food stocks, watering the plants, etc. Then we just check off on the game calendar the last time someone went over each of those things. Pretty simple. Kind of like regular maintenance on your car, except you have to do it more often, and if you forget it's not just going to be a stalled engine or fender-bender. Maybe closer to aircraft maintenance. You've got to de-ice those wings before take-off! Oops - didn't do it - CRASH - BURN. Each starport or space station is listed as Grade A to Grade E. Those which are Grade A offer all kinds of amenities, including a free refueling & ship overhaul. Of course, you're paying for all that in your high docking fees. They also offer the "free" use of a ground vehicle, hovercar or aircar while you are using their docking facilities. A Grade E facility is a field with a sign saying "park here", and someone who collects 2 credits from you when you land. |
October 8, 2012 - 4:35pm | In my Fire Department we see alot of both. Maintenance on equipment and vehicles has a schedule but we have special times after use where additional maintenance is required. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
October 8, 2012 - 5:23pm | Yes, those are perfect examples. Fire department maintenance, and the ship maintenance jedion mentioned. Absolutely right, rattraveller. You've got to keep up with everything - medical too. I was thinking about the Space Shuttle and the International Space Station. Good examples of why you need to keep up with regular maintenance, and not be lazy or distracted while doing it. When my players have someone else do the maintenance for them, they are assuming that those people are doing a good job... but what if they aren't? Same thing with trusting robots to do the job for you. We should find out what kind of maintenance checks they do on Spaceship Two, or the Soyuz or whatever else is still running these days. |
 October 8, 2012 - 7:28pm | As a former aircraft mechanic, both civilian and military, I can tell you maintenance is taken seriusly to a point. When push comes to shove, mission, money, The answer is fly and do what you need to do. Pilots are just as bad though. They want their flight time and will take a risk without doing all of their checks, I know of 1 pilot that died because he did not catch a problem that was maintenance related until it was too late. I think spaceship maintenance would be critical just for basic life support. Everything else revolves around getting the ship from one point to another intact so all of it should be taken seriously, but Jedion is right, humans really do let things go unless they are pushed. |
October 9, 2012 - 5:36am | My dad tells a story about being stationed in Thailand during Vietnam and there was a Max Effort on such that every single B52 that could fly was lined up and fully loaded with engines running and all of them were waiting their turn to take off for a little trip North. one of the B52s had a radar fault while in this line of planes and Dad and another tech raced out in a jeep. my father climbed aboard the plane even as it was slowly rolling in line disconnected the old radar dropped it through the hatch to the other tech who then bench pressed the new radar unit upto him. Dad was furiously trying to install that radar and run a systems check but then the plane's number came up to go and the pilot openned the throttle and Dad went to Hanoi with the B52 and its crew. He wasn't happy about that as he had to don a parachute and sit next to the navigator knowing that unlike the navigator he didn't have an ejection seat and that he'd have to crawl through the hole where the navigator was sitting if the pilot called for a bail out. I've actually hear that story countless times because something the pilot said to my dad made a big impression on him. After they were airbourne the pilot had a chat with him and told him that if he called for a bail out that the pilot would wait so many secound before ejecting and that was the time window my dad had to get out that hole where the navigator had been sitting. After that my father was going to become permanent aircraft commander. If there was time for a controlled bail out the pilot would let him go back and sit on the bombay door and he'd get to free fall from there as it would safer than using the spot where the navigator sits. You get a few beers in him and get him talking about his experiences in Thailand and that will be either the first or the second story he will tell. At any rate he had more than one adventure as the technician on a flight headed to North Vietnam during the war- I'm guessing in war push comes to shove more often than we might think. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 12, 2012 - 8:58pm | Jedion, Your Dad ROCKS! Tell him he is appreciated by a fellow AF mechanic. |
October 13, 2012 - 4:57am | Jedion, Your Dad ROCKS! Tell him he is appreciated by a fellow AF mechanic. I had heard that story a few times growing up but it took me becoming an adult and just spending time with him over a few beers to get many more of these stories- much to the wife's religious disapproval but it the price of getting these stories from my 70 year old father is having a few beers then so be it. I plan to try to incorporate the "seeds" of my Dad's stories into a sci-fi story at some point. I was actually surprised to realize just how often his life was in jeopardy. Most of his career was actually on KC135's and that was not without danger. They had 3 of these flying at three different anchors over Vietnam with the most Northern anchor being Cherry Anchor and the mission was simply to refuel any jet that was low on gas. However, regs said that a KC135 with a radar tech like my father was prohibited from flying cherry anchor because of the danger of a radar tech falling into enemy hands if the plane was shot down. A navy fighter had been shot up and the KC135 on cherry anchor had linked up and was pumping fuel into it as fast as it was leaking out and the two planes needed to fly south linked or the navy pilot was going to have to bail out over enemy territory. Because of that the call came for the KC135 on the next anchor south to take up station on cherry anchor but that plane just happened to have my Dad on board. So when the pilot radioed back a no go because they had a tech on board my Dad said "Wait a minute, I volunteer to go." and so they went. While there they got locked up with a SAM site radar. when the EW officer called out radar lock one of two navy pilots in the area came back with, "I'm on it." rolled into a dive and blasted the site to scrap. It was an experience that he admitted left him in fear, "you're on a flying gas station and the enemy locks you up with radar? There ain't no coming back from that." He was also on the the KC135's that developed the technique for refueling a helicopter from those jets as a contingency plan for things going bad during the Iranian hostage rescue. Basically the pilot deploys the landing gear and flaps and puts the plane in a stall climb. the boom operator extends the boom out the back of the plane and the helicopter pilot has to fly like a bat out of hell up behind the KC135 and he has to mate his helicopter to the fuel boom not the boom operator. He was not eager to witness this procedure first hand again as there is some real risk. Funny thing is my image of my Dad's job growing up was that he sat in a repair shop and wielded a soldering iron. though I was a senior in high school in England and was aware of him flying on the refueling mission for the bombers that bombed Kadaffy's Libya seeing as how France wouldn't give us permission to fly our planes over their air space to reach Libya so they had to fly around Gibraltar and one set of KC135s to refuel the FB111s half way on the way there and another set of KC135s had to meet the same bombers half way on the way back. I cant help think that the pilots flying the FB111's out of Lakenheath England all that long way to Libya around Gibraltar through two refueling and sitting in the same seat all that time- that has got to suck. I got to fly on a KC135 on a MAC flight to come back to the states with dad and even though it not a comfortable flight you at least get to move around and use the bathroom. My hat is off to the fighter pilots who endure stuff like that flight just so the President's foreign policy can be backed up. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 13, 2012 - 5:00am | Jedion, Your Dad ROCKS! Tell him he is appreciated by a fellow AF mechanic. I had heard that story a few times growing up but it took me becoming an adult and just spending time with him over a few beers to get many more of these stories- much to the wife's religious disapproval but it the price of getting these stories from my 70 year old father is having a few beers then so be it. I plan to try to incorporate the "seeds" of my Dad's stories into a sci-fi story at some point. I was actually surprised to realize just how often his life was in jeopardy. Most of his career was actually on KC135's and that was not without danger. They had 3 of these flying at three different anchors over Vietnam with the most Northern anchor being Cherry Anchor and the mission was simply to refuel any jet that was low on gas. However, regs said that a KC135 with a radar tech like my father was prohibited from flying cherry anchor because of the danger of a radar tech falling into enemy hands if the plane was shot down. A navy fighter had been shot up and the KC135 on cherry anchor had linked up and was pumping fuel into it as fast as it was leaking out and the two planes needed to fly south linked or the navy pilot was going to have to bail out over enemy territory. Because of that the call came for the KC135 on the next anchor south to take up station on cherry anchor but that plane just happened to have my Dad on board. So when the pilot radioed back a no go because they had a tech on board my Dad said "Wait a minute, I volunteer to go." and so they went. While there they got locked up with a SAM site radar. when the EW officer called out radar lock one of two navy pilots in the area came back with, "I'm on it." rolled into a dive and blasted the site to scrap. It was an experience that he admitted left him in fear, "you're on a flying gas station and the enemy locks you up with radar? There ain't no coming back from that. A KC dont evade SAMs" He was also on the the KC135's that developed the technique for refueling a helicopter from those jets as a contingency plan for things going bad during the Iranian hostage rescue. Basically the pilot deploys the landing gear and flaps and puts the plane in a stall climb. the boom operator extends the boom out the back of the plane and the helicopter pilot has to fly like a bat out of hell up behind the KC135 and he has to mate his helicopter to the fuel boom not the boom operator. He was not eager to witness this procedure first hand again as there is some real risk. Funny thing is my image of my Dad's job growing up was that he sat in a repair shop and wielded a soldering iron. though I was a senior in high school in England and was aware of him flying on the refueling mission for the bombers that bombed Kadaffy's Libya seeing as how France wouldn't give us permission to fly our planes over their air space to reach Libya so they had to fly around Gibraltar and one set of KC135s to refuel the FB111s half way on the way there and another set of KC135s had to meet the same bombers half way on the way back. I cant help think that the pilots flying the FB111's out of Lakenheath England all that long way to Libya around Gibraltar through two refueling and sitting in the same seat all that time- that has got to suck. I got to fly on a KC135 on a MAC flight to come back to the states with dad and even though it not a comfortable flight you at least get to move around and use the bathroom. My hat is off to the fighter pilots who endure stuff like that flight just so the President's foreign policy can be backed up. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 13, 2012 - 8:24am | He was also on the the KC135's that developed the technique for refueling a helicopter from those jets as a contingency plan for things going bad during the Iranian hostage rescue. Basically the pilot deploys the landing gear and flaps and puts the plane in a stall climb. the boom operator extends the boom out the back of the plane and the helicopter pilot has to fly like a bat out of hell up behind the KC135 and he has to mate his helicopter to the fuel boom not the boom operator. He was not eager to witness this procedure first hand again as there is some real risk. The eventually worked out a side boom for refueling helicopters that extended straight out the side of the plane. My dad taught air traffic control at Ft. Rucker, AL where the army trains its helicopter pilots. Most unnatural thing I ever saw. I was biking to the rec center one day and looked up and there was this helicopter "tethered" to a fixed wing aircraft and the two were flying along in unison. I just stopped and stared for a minute as they flew by. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
October 13, 2012 - 6:05pm | Jedion, I flew in a C-130 from Germany to Little Rock, AK once and back, all for glorious training. 3+ days one way but it wasn't too bad. You just had to hold for the bathroom until you landed. You did not want to be the first to use the Honey Bucket. If you were, you emptied it. :) I have only flown in C-130's and I love them. Since I was a kid and my uncle flew in them. Plus they are in so many movies too. |
October 13, 2012 - 7:20pm | I spent my senior year of high school at an American school run by DOD on Lakenheath AFB, England but my mother wanted me to graduate from the catholic school I had been attending in the states. Unfortunately, we just couldn't afford the the tickets so we were sitting at the MAC terminal at Mildenhall hoping to get a seat on a MAC flight. But then the KC-10 that was due to fly broke down and they had 3 KC 135's replaced it which opened seats for us. If that hadn't happened I never would have gotten on an air force jet nor made it back from my graudation. Watched the boom operator refuel A7's all the way back across the Atlantic. Big difference between being a passenger on an Air force jet vs a commercial jet- one is uninsulated which makes it cold and noisy requiring a jacket and ear plugs. One takes off at a jentle incline and has very comfortable seats the other takes off at a steep angle with canvas and aluminum seats bolted to the wall. The experience was very illuminating- not a bad experience just illuminating and the ticket price of $10 plus another $10 for a box lunch- hard to beat that- whole family flew for $100 and loading our own luggage. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 October 15, 2012 - 3:59pm | The experience was very illuminating- not a bad experience just illuminating and the ticket price of $10 plus another $10 for a box lunch- hard to beat that- whole family flew for $100 and loading our own luggage.
Thus the difference between travelling "cargo class" and "journey class".  |
 October 15, 2012 - 5:56pm | One difference between the Frontier and our current time. The airlines can not, nor do they want to, let people fly cargo class. There is $ here. Imagine what would happen if FedEx or UPS could sell cargo class tickets. The the comparison is not totally fair. An airline flight is a day worst case. The starship flight is measured in days, plural. So the comparison should be made with our ships on the sea. Do freighters still sell passage? Good catch Shadow. -iggy |
 October 20, 2012 - 9:30am | There don't seem to be any lawyers in the Star Frontiers universe. Very refreshing. |
 October 20, 2012 - 9:33am | There don't seem to be any lawyers in the Star Frontiers universe. Very refreshing. TSR was designing a Utopia, so... |
October 20, 2012 - 12:34pm | Well let's face it, there weren't many publicly broadcast lawsuits when SF was written. Sure, we all saw the news reports of the exploding Pinto but we never saw any civil court cases erupt from it. As insurance companies began finding creative ways to pay out less to victims, the need for a personal injury attoreny came to light...granted now that insurance companies are back in check again (willing to play ball) the plague of personal injury attorneys is still in full effect. |
