 August 12, 2012 - 8:47pm | I have been wondering about Fighter Support in the Clarion Royal Marines. This makes sense, as the Assault Scouts are on rotation from patrols, and having a ready squadron of fighters would makes sense on a tactical level. Unlike Assault Scouts, Fighters have a limited range of operation, so they are limited to planetary defense and short-range fire-support for the militia fleet. Even though they rarely get action outside of war-themed adventures, it is still good to cover them anyway. So I added the White Light Squadron to the SF Wiki, at the end of Order of Battle. So what do you guys think of the ragtag team? I have been thinking about working on and rounding out the other militia fleet. I have recently read an article about the Lossend Space Rangers, who have a fleet of Fighters, so this would be good for for thought. |
 August 12, 2012 - 8:59pm | I have an article called "Why the Royal Marines Dont Use Fighter Craft" that's been waiting to be published. Contrary to what the name suggests they actually did and i worked up a handful of KHs scenarios for them. It was due to be published in issue 18 of the SFman but I've not been involved in that zine for 2 months. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
August 12, 2012 - 10:51pm | You perked my interest. Now I'm really looking forwards to the next issue. So, what do you think of the team I made? |
August 13, 2012 - 4:00am | I think my complaint about your squdron is the same complaint about all the militia, the numbers are too low. If we thought about it in terms of real world military hardware and compared star ships to ocean going naval vessels and fighter craft to squardons of aircraft then the militia's look like two bit jokes about the worst of the third world jokes. I think squadrons should number around 24, 36 or 48 (24 is probably a good number) with a comment that not all the craft are available at one time- they fly in groups of 6-12 and some are in resever, some are down for repairs and if some get shot up in one encounter their is more to fill the numbers in another encounter. The problme with fighter craft for a militia is that they are limited in the missions they can fulfill for the militia. fighter craft cant board and inspect a freighter and a host of other things you'll need to assign a shuttle with a boarding team and they are essentially a parasite warship so you need a tender or carrier; a freighter confiscated from bad people with the appropriate cargo module could fill this roll. Even then the assault scout is a better deal IMO that doesn't preclude militias from holding fighters for planetary and station defense, I'm sure they do and I automatically assume that is the case for the planets over light population but lacking a listed militia. Also, picking up all the bird names of the assualt scouts in the Royal Marines I named the squadron the Raptor squadron. seemed appropriate to me. Wrote a whole history and 3 major KHs encounters with two of them occuring in other systems. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 August 13, 2012 - 12:45pm | WLS, I like it. Keeps with the theme of the WOWL module. Malcadon, we used your wiki today (making a new Star Frontiers card game), really comes in handy. :-) |
August 13, 2012 - 12:48pm | I think my complaint about your squdron is the same complaint about all the militia, the numbers are too low.
I believe the numbers are low to keep ships manageable in the Knight Hawks board-game. It might be nice to have two listings of ships; one for the board-game, one for the RPG. |
August 13, 2012 - 12:50pm | Malcadon, Also thought it might be nice to include stats for the crew. That way someone can grab them for use in their games. |
August 13, 2012 - 6:04pm | WLS, I like it. Keeps with the theme of the WOWL module. Malcadon, we used your wiki today (making a new Star Frontiers card game), really comes in handy. :-) Thanks, glad you like it. Its good that all the effort is helpful to someone. I have been busy trying to incorporate info from the old books and the Star Frontiersmen. The added info from the fan-zine really helps round-out the setting. I believe the numbers are low to keep ships manageable in the Knight Hawks board-game. It might be nice to have two listings of ships; one for the board-game, one for the RPG. I got the same impression. Personally, I would make the fleets larger. As for the militia Assault Scouts, they should have twice the compliment, at the vary least. A patrol should have no lees then two ships, so one docks and inspects a ship, while a second covers the first ship, in case the inspected ship tries anything funny. Plus, the extra ships help the fleet by having some ships in reserve, and to help them cover more ground on patrols. Also thought it might be nice to include stats for the crew. That way someone can grab them for use in their games. I avoided adding stats on the crew raster, as it would take too much space and would have looked out-of-place on the list - being a crew manifest, after all. |
 August 13, 2012 - 6:29pm | One option for a militia fleet, would be to have an assault scout as the command ship and a compliment of fighters with it. The fighters cover and screen the assault scout while doing inspections and boarding. Of course this would be for insystem missions, but it would make sense to have the cheaper fighter with only one more expensive ship. I was thinking about the new BSG and how they had a raptor ship with a compliment of fighters in several situations. You can also look at it with current air power. A radar plane(AWACS) will be in an area of operation and will coordinate fighter craft from several sources to accomplish their goals. |
August 13, 2012 - 7:12pm | I think my complaint about your squdron is the same complaint about all the militia, the numbers are too low. If we thought about it in terms of real world military hardware and compared star ships to ocean going naval vessels and fighter craft to squardons of aircraft then the militia's look like two bit jokes about the worst of the third world jokes. I think squadrons should number around 24, 36 or 48 (24 is probably a good number) with a comment that not all the craft are available at one time- they fly in groups of 6-12 and some are in resever, some are down for repairs and if some get shot up in one encounter their is more to fill the numbers in another encounter. Yeah, KH keeps the numbers low for the sake of the wargame. I can imagine the fleets being bigger - not to the level of Legend of Galactic Heroes, but not to where they have nothing in reserve, or lacking in any logistical support. 24 Fighters would make sense if it followed our reality - even by WWI & WWII standards, which the creators liked to do - but 6 is appropriate to the setting, given how small they make the fleets. Then again, planets should have more orbiting stations - especially those with stable Lagrangian points - with roles like trading hubs, luxury resorts, industry, agriculture, military base/battle station, and so on. The problme with fighter craft for a militia is that they are limited in the missions they can fulfill for the militia. fighter craft cant board and inspect a freighter and a host of other things you'll need to assign a shuttle with a boarding team and they are essentially a parasite warship so you need a tender or carrier; a freighter confiscated from bad people with the appropriate cargo module could fill this roll. Even then the assault scout is a better deal IMO that doesn't preclude militias from holding fighters for planetary and station defense, I'm sure they do and I automatically assume that is the case for the planets over light population but lacking a listed militia. Yeah, the limited role of Fighters was never lost on me. Assault Scouts are ideal for patrols as they have quarters and docking rings, and having Fighters follow a patrol would mean having the pilots endure a long-ass ride, with no support for reload or recovery. Adding a boarding-shuttle transport would drastically change the scope of the fleet, as they would have an easier means to board multiple ships an once, while Assault Scouts are used to support those shuttles without leaving themselves vulnerable by docking. So Assault Scouts would not dock with ships, unless they cripple an enemy ship's weapons, and the boarding team from the docked shuttle needs more men. Also, picking up all the bird names of the assualt scouts in the Royal Marines I named the squadron the Raptor squadron. seemed appropriate to me. Wrote a whole history and 3 major KHs encounters with two of them occuring in other systems. At first, I thought about using a bird name for the squadron, but it did not sound right. Somehow "White Light" sounds better - I cant say why? I am really interested in reading that history. |
August 14, 2012 - 3:45am | Actually I did include some provision for boarding shuttles as that is the only way to get full utility for the fighters. re: squadron number- I only advocate numbers in the range of 24 as a tip of the hat to reality but fundamental playability calls for 6-12 in a game. Simple fact is that not all the birds fly at once because of crew rotation, because of repairs and maintenance. Plus from the simple stand point of if the squadron is shot up and loses 5 birds its done (90% losses) but if 5 hulls is only 40% losses then the organization is still viable. go with more and write that only 6-12 hulls are available at one time or have a table that you roll 1d10 on and it will give results between 6-12 In my article politics and the fight over budgets dictates what happens, I would write things now, knowing what I know about my article, as politics, budgetary fights, and eventual high casualties defending an ally against the sathar did the raptor squadron in and ended once and for all the thought that fighters could replace assault scouts in the White Light System. Your White Light squadron was formed about the time the Raptor squadron was disbanded and is principly tasked with Combat air patrol missions and defense of Clarion station. I also assume that the Space Feet fortress in orbit has a fighter squadron and that there is a friendly rivalry between the crews. Second thought just struct me- because of the Space Fleet penchant for naming task forces after star systems- Task Force Prengular and Task Force Cassidine I would lean toward the Space Fleet fighter squadron being called White Light squadron personally. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 August 17, 2012 - 9:28am | Well, if you have the Assault Scouts and other militia vessels doing the customs & safety inspections, what you want fighters for is for purely tactical missions-- when a pirate is ID'd, or the Sathar come to call. I'd think you could have them as a part-time element of the militia, with pilots either on call, or rotating on duty. Say you have 24 fighters, but only a quarter are manned at any time, and those are just sitting at a station without anyone in the cockpits. You might have 30 or so pilots on the payroll, but most of them are doing their day jobs. Given a few minutes warning, you can have the active quarter in action, but you'd need hours, maybe even a day, to get the rest off the planet and into flight suits. Now, if you had remote-controlled fighters, like current UAVs, then those pilots aren't even needed in orbit, just get them to a secure network terminal, and they're yanking an banking in no time! |
August 18, 2012 - 1:42am | Now, if you had remote-controlled fighters, like current UAVs, then those pilots aren't even needed in orbit, just get them to a secure network terminal, and they're yanking an banking in no time! The funny thing about Star Frontiers, is that Burnside's Zeroth Law of space combat - "Science fiction fans relate more to human beings than to silicon chips" - makes it so that Fighters are manned craft, but they are so underutilized in the game, that making the Fighters retroactively unmanned might actually improve things, as robotic controls take-up a lot less space (no cockpit or life-support), and they can take the extreme-gees. But manned fighters are canonical, so I run with that. |
