 June 21, 2012 - 3:13am | I rather like the idea of what was done with Shadowrun and its setting when a new edtion of the rules came out- they simply advanced the timeline and made the prior edition the past. If i did this with Star Frontiers, I believe that after doing a little more work on the timeline I would advance a 2.0 edition setting to 150-225 FY period. I'd overhaul the tech to look like its a little better than todays tech. Hoverhaul the KHs rules. And finally expand the setting by 800% Putting the setting into a new period lets you tell new stories and eliminated continuity errors and problems . Giving the tech a 2000 feel will make it feel like its advanced over the AD tech which had a 1980s feel. KHs well you need the new ships to be better then the old one and the system could use it. I would turn the AD/Zebs Map into an actual Parsec, then layout parsec all the way around it, giving you 9 parsecs with which to play with. Timeline- A lot of different idea threads going into this- 1. statement in the existing timeline about all exploration being halted at a certain time makes no sense, surre the government might say we dont want that activity going on but there is no way that a mega corp that desires to develop new resources or markets will give this up. Also private individuals with a ship that desire to see whats out there will keep it up. So I beleive that it continues to happen quietly even while the UPF discourages it fearing that uncontrolled expansion will lead to conflict with the sathar or to greater military budgets just to protect every thing while new start up colonies wont be contributing too much to the coffers. 2. I'd write into the history that the central gov has become corrupt over time, allow for the creation of the Hentz Hedgemony, strained relations with the rim. Rename the Frontier sector the Core sector and the outer parsec are now the Frontier. 3. Frontier parsecs pick up the original flavor of the game- wild west in space and they are fairly wild. plus its not always known what you'll find out there so you can bring back some exploration flavor into the game. Now you have corporations, space fleet, scout service, CFM, Flight Hentz Hedgemony- all possible antagonists who wont be shoot on sight like the sathar . As for the sathar there was one more sathar war where several sathar worlds were located and nuked, a Council of Worlds leader has proclaimed mission accomplished when no one really knows if the sathar are destroyed, naturally they aint and they can turn up as a reaver like antagonist I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 June 21, 2012 - 5:59am | Well Shadowrun was a creation of FASA who also had the Battletech franchise who really have kept things fresh by moving the timeline along sometimes even if the fans were not thrilled with the way it went (like when they decided Battlemechs were now so rare there were less than one per planet). The "Book that shall not be named" also advanced the timeline for Star Frontiers but like so much of "Book that shall not be named" was not well liked and seemed to have left out alot. One other thing I would add is the allies of the Sathar or possibly the Sathar becoming allies. Sounds ridiculous BUT in the Star Trek universe the Klingons and Romulans started as the bad guys but as things went they became allies (sort of) against the Borg and the Dominion and some others. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
June 21, 2012 - 6:35am | I think Will the Stampede wrote a bit of fiction where the sathar were part of the UPF, not sure I understood everything he was on about with that but it was a darker, grittier frontier in his fiction. Problem with Zebs is that it was rushed to publication in an effort to get out what they had been working on before it was killed by the new CEO after Gygax left. So it has a lot of problems that we often nit pick over. Hence the Time line project that I've been working on and publishing in installments - though the next installment hasn't been published yet. So I dont know when the period between the two sathar wars will be tackled. I think that with the discussion of adventures in History and people considering how to run an adventure further back in the time line then the usual era and how that impacts equipment, technology, and what have you I dont think that advancing the timeline to FY 150-225 will be that big a deal- tech is faster more miniaturized, the bigest changes would be in KHs IMO, core mechanics would be left unchanged though some changes in the PSA system toward the direction of Skilled Frontier and Spacer Skills revisited. Due to what I would consider the downfallings of the KHs rules that would be the biggest change and I think the best way to handle that is simply rework the rules and pretend the first KHs never existed. If the new ships end up being heavier gunned, so what, they all uniformly are heavier or what ever the case may be. If some concensus could be achieved on general direction to take the timeline I think having a core group of planets that has slipped a little from its past glory, has perhaps more corruption then before and then a frontier out from that core lets you keep the beloved original setting and reset the Frontier for rough and ready wild and wooly adventures. You can sand box in the Frontier and do story drive in the core and any way you prefer to GM. a multiplicity of factions will be a benefit to KHs games too. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 June 21, 2012 - 8:45pm | I'm going back to pre-frontier and rewriting history. I like the technology and tome period. I've not had too much interest in future tech.. .02 Saturday game will be pre volturnus |
 June 21, 2012 - 11:46pm | Given the nature of the Sathar and Frontier history. I think the best absolute most optomistic outcome that could possibly happen in a snowballs chance in hell senario is that the Frontier adopts a live and let live policy with a Neutral Zone type border that neither the Sathar or Frontier Residents EVER cross. And thats turning a frown upside down. The Sathar are mortal enemies of all free willed benevolent beings in the frontier their sheer countless acts of savage attrocities against other beings will never allow them to live in peace with the frontier races. That ship has sailed. The Best hope is that they stay put in their little corner of the universe and we don't seek out their homeworld bomb them into anihilation. Now I too have considered bringing in a enemy that makes the Sathar look like Disney characters but the truth of the matter is the UPF Fleet could agree to fight the same foe but it would be from different fronts and cooperation would end at the agreement that we wont try to kill each other while we fight the common enemy. But truthfully, knowing what the Sathar would try to do to us at any moment we let down our guard for even an instant. Nuke 'em from orbit its the only way to be sure! There isn't a standing kill on site order for the fun of it. |
 June 22, 2012 - 1:21am | I think the Sathar should be the eternal enemy of the UPF. Like AZ said, there is a reason for the kill on sight order. If you jump 200 or even 400 years into the future, I would find a way to keep them as the antagonists. It would not be SF, IMO, if it were any other way. Have SW3, 4, 5. They could start all different ways, but in the end, keep them at bay. Its like growing up during the cold war. The Russians and Chinese were the bad guys, simple. But now everything has changed. I know both of those countries really were just protecting themselves and their ideology too, but now the whole world has changed and it is not the same as when we were growing up with SF. so in a game I would try and keep something of the feel for that uncomprehensible bad guy. |
June 22, 2012 - 2:05am | I agree, sathar are bad and there is no rehabilitating them, i just sited Will's fiction because I did find it weird and intriguing, not sure what he was doing with it but then he's not around anymore to tell us what he was doing with it. Advancing the timeline I would prune the sathar back with a tone of "we've ended the sathar threat" by policy makers in the setting but small pockets do exist- it leaves the option in place to use them but also lets you develop new threats and factions. It also means the sathar will use spies and turncoats even more. Having a whole pallet of threats and factions to paint with allows you to tell so many more stories. The reality of mapping a galaxy like the Milky Way is that the rings mapped in Parsecs would be appox. 10 parsec thick so viewing the Frontier sector map as a parsec; it would be only one slice in a stack of 10. For game purposes its simpler to ignore the reality and assume the galaxy is only about one star thick which it isn't. but to present the map in 3d on a 2d surface? gets complicated and a flat map like the AD map is just easier to use. However if you did represent the Frontier sector (or Core Sector in a brave new frontier) as one parsec and chart each of the parsecs around it plus the nine in the slice above as well as the nine in the slice below you'd have a massive setting to play with- declare that this is the sqherical volume that the core four has managed to explore a little, beyond this is unknown space. I think that I'd use a cartesian coordinate system with the AD Frontier sectore being 0,0,0. This coordinate system would break down on a galactic scale but set in a small region of space where you'd travel 2 or 3 parsec and not reach the top edge of the spiral arm it would work well enogh especially since it could take a millenia for a ship at present tech to reach the other side of the galaxy. the implication of so many sapient races in such a small tight little corner of the galaxy is a very Star Wars ish sort of setting. Of course its odd that all these civilizations should evolve and develop space flight in roughly the same epoc of galactic time as well. by expanding the setting I think you give yourself some breathing room too. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
June 24, 2012 - 7:28am | Probably right about the Sathar not being welcome in the UPF. Its like when some group decides to fight two wars against another group and during those wars bucket loads of soldiers and civilians are killed. But now that certain things have changed they work more or less together. Of course I am talking about: Roman Empire and Egypt US & Canada British Empire & France (although I think this is more like 20 wars) Russia and China Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 June 23, 2012 - 9:52pm | I think we often overlook how much we uplift lower tech societies. Thus I am OK with extra races in the frontier and don't automatically think of them all reaching space travel at the same time. Think of Earth, we have been constantly uplifting each society as the world has globalized over recorded history. Fertile Crescent people would meet tribal people (possibly stone age in tech) and by conquest or trade they uplift them to the highest tech of the time. Egypt and Rome did the same. Then fast forward to the colonial expansion and this process picks up speed. As late as the 20th century we were pulling tribal people out of the Amazon and Borneo that were still stone age. As the core four have colonized worlds they will inadvertently uplift the sapient races they encounter. I would argue it would take more work and control to preserve their cultures in some Star Trek prime directive thinking than any of the core four could possibly hope to do. I do not think that there is much biological that prevents a sapient being that has developed speech, tools, etc. from learning from an advanced teacher and fitting into the advanced society. So, I am OK with populating the frontier and beyond with many sapient beings and even opening these races up to the players. -iggy |
June 24, 2012 - 7:27am | I think we have had a previous discussion on how the UPF treats lower tech races like the ones they found on Volturnus and Starmist. The conflicting goals of the Prime Directive of allowing races to develop on their own and the Mega-Corps desire for new markets would make for some interesting adventures. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 June 26, 2012 - 1:56pm | Parsec is 3.2 Lightyears. The squares on the Star Frontiers map are 1 LY each, so the old map can't be a single parsec. |
 June 27, 2012 - 3:48am | I think the word he was looking for was sector, not parsec. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
June 27, 2012 - 4:30am | I think the word he was looking for was sector, not parsec. quite correct- I think I get a little dyslexic sometimes. One reason I try to put a little time between writing something and editing it so my brain can forget what it knows I was trying to say and look at what I wrote with a fresh critical eye.I was thinking sector and parsec so as to bring the game world a little closer to real world measurements. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 July 6, 2012 - 7:31am | "You've never heard of the Gullwind?" "Should I have?" "It's the ship that made the Dramune Run in less than 12 parsecs. I've outrun Sathar and UPF warships. Not the local bulk cruisers, mind you...I'm talking about the big Maltharian ships now. She's fast enough for you, old man." Yeah, I'm definitely using that line in my Dramune Run prequel. I like the direction of this topic as well...I just had to throw that parsec mishap in ;) |
July 6, 2012 - 7:55am | Groan!!!!  Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
July 6, 2012 - 10:12am | Stars Wars the more I hear about it the less sense it makes. Oh well good entertainment anyway. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
July 6, 2012 - 5:17pm | Stars Wars the more I hear about it the less sense it makes. Oh well good entertainment anyway. What doesn't make sense? Using a unit of distance to measure time? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 6, 2012 - 5:39pm | Stars Wars the more I hear about it the less sense it makes. Oh well good entertainment anyway. What doesn't make sense? Using a unit of distance to measure time? That has been a long running gag since the movie first debuted. Popular consensus has it that our man Han was just hoping to impress his potential client with a banquet of baloney in order to win him over. You know, the Dudeman factor.  |
July 6, 2012 - 6:04pm | Stars Wars the more I hear about it the less sense it makes. Oh well good entertainment anyway. What doesn't make sense? Using a unit of distance to measure time? That has been a long running gag since the movie first debuted. Popular consensus has it that our man Han was just hoping to impress his potential client with a banquet of baloney in order to win him over. You know, the Dudeman factor. You may be right about the Dude man factor. Ford was working as a carpenter on the set and they were short a han to read and grabbed him. You're a carpenter with delusions of acting and you get a shot to read on a set and you might as well take a shot. Sadly the world of construction has probably never been the same :) BTW anymore Dude Man Stories- those were great. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 6, 2012 - 6:22pm | BTW anymore Dude Man Stories- those were great. Funny you should ask, I just added a pair earlier today: Scroll down to Schizo-Dude and 20/20 Dudeman for the two new ones. For those just joining in, you get the entire side splitting page to read ;) |
July 6, 2012 - 9:27pm | Too *#%@& funny: Harley Dolt and Mommy Where do Harley Dolts Come From? Side note 7 years ago just before I was injured and out of work for four years the State of MA passed a law that gas fired hot water heaters had to be explosion proof. this of course massively jacked the price and all that year the customers looked at us like we were gouging them. It was rather aggravating. That and all the jobs we went to bid on after the customer has had one round of estimates and went with the massively under priced bid by an unlicensed bo-jack plumber who too the money down bought some stock and worked for a day and then disappeared. So now we need $3500 to do this job including cutting out all the improperly installed pipe and the owner actually tells us that's a bit high when he already $800 for a $1600 job. Really! then get the butt hole that took your $800 to finish it and good luck getting the building inspector to sign off on it. About this time because my partner is the master plumber and I've been keeping my mouth shut but I decide to stir the pot and call out my partner's name and say, "Did you notice the asbestos on these pipes?" My partner without missing a beat says, "Oh Jeeze, the price just went up." About that time I'm hiding a smirk in my cup of Duncan Donuts coffee cause I can see the owners face and know we aint getting the job and I can care less. its a dog of a job we'll loose money on because we'll waste time cutting out all the old pipe and the frigging owner wants us to see if we can use the pipe we cut out? Yeah I'm going to waste my time running around with a tape measure to see if i can save 3 feet of PVC? Sure how about we just double the labor on the bid to cover wasted time? Tell you what I'll save all the illegally removed asbestos in a bag so you can recycle it some where in your house. I use to get bummed when we wasted time pricing out one of these jobs at a fair price and not get it. But it doesn't take long to realize that some people you just dont want to deal with. How does it figure that just because you foolishly went with a bid so obvioulsy under priced and got taken by a scammer that I should eat the loss? Epilogue to the Twit with asbestos: he got taken again by another scammer who did the job for something like 2400 or 26oo and bragged to my partner that this other guy did it for less then us. However the new plumber guy never arranged for the plumbing inspector to come and it turned out that everything he did was wrong so that that twit was out over 3 grand now and he ended up with this 3 unit rental property unable to be occupied and had to pay another $4500 to fix the mess and then the inspector caught the asbestos, which was then more money. Smug twit was smug with us but since my partner had over 30 years experience as a master plumber in and around Boston he pretty much knows all the inspectors well so we already knew the dirt on what happened after we didn't get the job. And i played stupid and asked in front of the inspector, "Oh wasn't that the property with all the asbestos the owner wanted us to remove?" We weren't licensed to do that sort of thing and the inspector knew it. He got a very unhappy look on his face at that point. But then I was rather pissed with Mr Smug all but calling us crooks and then playing smug with us after the fact. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 6, 2012 - 9:48pm | Reminds me a bit of how government contracts are awarded. The President noticed a gaping hole in one of the Oval Office walls, not just a punched in dry wall mind you but several of the studs were shattered to boot. It was going to take a bit more than a simple dry wall patch job,so he called a few contractors in for estimates. The first one quotes $1000, so the President asks how that is broken down. Contractor states $400 worth of supplies, $400 worth of labor, and $200 for profit. The second contractor quotes $700 with a breakdown of $300 in supplies, $300 in labor, and $100 in profit. The third one quotes $2700. The President is shocked at this final quote and demands an explanation, to which the contractor replies "Simple, that's $1000 for me, $1000 for you, and I hire the guy who quoted you $700 to do the job." |
