 February 29, 2012 - 7:51am | Recently this was posted: Bringing in Earth is always a sticky situation.
On the one had, you get the context of our own history and background. This can be useful as a story foil, and convienient in terms of taking for granted certain elements of knowledge. (I.E. Space Nazis are eeeevil!) However, on the other hand, there is also a certain "purity" to NOT having Earth involved in a SF campaign at all. The desire to bring in Earth is understandable, perhaps even irresistible, but there is also something to be said for building a vast Human civilization, in the context of the Frontier, from scratch. Personally, I prefer to avoid Earth. I enjoy the opportunity to create from the ground up, to be free of the shackles of our history - let alone explaining everything that takes place beyond today's era. And while I can be very opinionated I do try to think about the arguements of the other side of an discussion and weight them out for there merit. I have certainly been one of the staunchest champions of putting Earth into the setting but I found Imperial Lords reasoning to have merit and be a little bit compelling on one point. So that said as an intellectual exercise I'd like to round table building up the Frontier from the ground up in a Universe Without Earth. The cannon statement of AD is that in a spiral galaxy there evolved a race of humans. And the designers of the game designed it without established homeworlds since the idea was to have a space western and established homeworlds would have established militaries and such. So we never got the homeworlds and supposedly d20 material or some such divulged material on homeworlds but I have never seen it. Two tracks can be taken here- 1. home worlds exist outside the setting (in this case the AD map) OR the exist inside the setting. If they exist outside the AD map we need a new and larger map but if they exist inside the AD map then they we can just get busy with working on stuff. Its always difficult proposing maps for spaces beyond the AD/Zebs map as its usually one fan's creation and we all come together here around the love of this game and the one thing we can all agree on is the AD map. A sub set hate the Zebs material and ignore the Zebs map and Rim but at the very least we can all agree on the AD map and material. For this reason I think the best path to take is to recraft a little bit and write the homeworlds (at least three of them) the AD setting. Down side is that in such a narrow space in space you had three sapient creatures evolve at the same time within 15 Light years of each other and at the same time. The odds on that happening are astronomically huge but its a game so like Han Solo said, "Never tell me the odds." No matter what we do the work will not be cannon so obviously this will be a bit of a alternate setting but one that should jive well with the established setting as long as you modify a few statements in the cannon. I will take the track of the homeworlds are in the setting and a few cannon statements fuel my decisions about things. The Leotus Line has held the throne for nearly 400 years, Leotus is the 19th monarch of this dynasty. Obviously we need to account for a 400 year history on Clarion I was looking for the statement where a vrusk mining company discovered the dralasites and could not locate it in Zebs or in two modules nor in "The Volturnus Connection" RE: A Yazirian Home World (Yazira) 270 PF Yazirian enter the Frontier for the Zebs quote I really think that Yzira system should be placed outside the Frontier. However its jump route is not on the map so for some reason the Yazirians aint saying. Reasons why: 1. they are pilgrims fleeing religious persecution (not completely in character with how I veiw the warrior ethic of the yazirian- they aint meek pilgrims but more of a John Wayne who fight for his rights) 2. Homeworld is destroyed- been talked about quite a bit and the wandering brown dwarf a passing through the system was astronomical disaster that they could not aviod but would have enough warning to do something like a Star Exodus. I like the destruction of the planet and a star exodus as its simplist to deal with, the star route exists and Fo1 is not telling as the system is not considered holy ground. It also explains why the yazirians who were last to the table have managed to settle so many systems then the other more established races. Thus I really think Yazira should be South by Southwest of Guna Garu deep into the Great Expanse a lonely system 15-20 light years from Araks. Its possible to go there but it just aint easy to do so. RE: A dralasite and a Vrusk Homeworld Dralasites: these are the easiest IMO. Dramune. the name sounds dralasite-ish and there is no other exclusively dralasite colonized system with a High population density. I have a few reasons why I dont think its Fromeltar even though admittedly Fromeltar sounds like a dralasite name I like it for a vrusk home system. Terledrom is the only system with a high population density and vrusk, all other vrusk colonies have moderate or light populations. It would only make sense or perhaps I should say its most probable that a homeworld will have a high population. We can cetainly explain the names Fromeltar and Terledrom being dralasite names as being the that they were the names that got drawn into Gan Gal due to their ease of use since vrusk is an essentially unspeakable language by everyone but the vrusk. finally the fact that Kisk'Kar is the only colony explicitly stated to be controlled by another colony, Terledrom and that fact that Kisk'Kar is exclusively vrusk it suggests a vrusk power base in Fromeltar. I would opt for a story that large numbers of dralsites have immigrated to terledrom, prospered there and integrated into their society. RE: Humanity and Nova Terra Humanity become the sticky point. Only two systems on the map make sense: White Light or Theseus IMO. Truane's Star has a name that suggest it was discovered. its also too far away from the initial action of first contacts between the bugs, the blobs and the hairless monkeys. Clarion as such an extreme one sided environment and the system name is not what I would use for a name for a humanities home star. We need to incorporate some or all of the statements in ADKH-0, 400 year dynasty, planetary militia that has never been defeated etc. but 400 years or even 300 or 200 years of an active space age would give them access to star ship technology far in advance of KHs. so its a little tricky about what we do with clarion. Theseus and Minotaur. Sound Greek, Greek alphabet gets all sorts of play in this game- that could be significant. Clarion just doesn't have the right feel for a nova terra but by the very lack of hard info on Minotaur I can easily image it as a nova terra. So here's my idea on that Minotaur is the homeworld of humanity. a myriad number of cultures and nations arouse much like here on earth. One managed to send out a colony ship that took x number of years to reach White Light system however after that ship left World War Whatever happened (lets just call it 3) that wiped out the fledgling space industries and without brining about a gamma world, which is really a different game and I dont want to have to account for mutated intelligent trees though anyone wanting to use that material can certianly write it in. We need to write in a return to space by Theseus, perhaps under a new one world government at the right time, which would be about the time of first contact by humans with the vrusk and dralasites as that is 350 PF. This would be the time of the founding of the Leotus dynasty and the 400 year history of that dynasty would take you to about 50 FY which is about the time most of the modules probably run, more or less. So this will require some thought on how long that colony expedition to White Light will take to travel and we need to allow for the population on Clarion to grow some. A history point we should cover: The Royal Guard has never been defeated in 400 years. So who'd they fight? Options 1.Theseus 2. intervention in the Free World Rebellion 3. sathar in SW1 I kind of like the idea of a one world facists government arising out of the ashes of WW3 on Minotaur and when it returns to space it turns its eye on Clarion. By the time of the establishment of the Frontier and the UPF the facists state has suffered a collapse and something else has come about. Conditions on Minotaur had been oppressive but once the facists state collapsed and individuals began to experience greater personal freedom this fueled human colonization else where in the frontier. As for human culture I say lets keep a bunch of RW cultures in a broad fashion. With Greek names in play i think it would be cool to have an ancient Greek culture and star ships named for characters in Greek myth. clearly Clarion was designed with Great Britian in mind. Russian names are fun, There is a mega corp CEO with a Chinese sounding name, Chang Kim Lee so Chinese works as well. Map of minotaur does not need to look like Earth. and its history can take some broad themes from Earth history but doesn not need to follow that either. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 29, 2012 - 10:33am | The comment about about the Vrusk mining colony discovering the Dralisites in is the same opening blurb on the inside cover of the Basic Rules as the comment about Humans not being from Earth. It is in the second paragraph and reads: The Humans made contact with an inventive race of insect-like creatures called Vrusk, who had developed limited space travel decades earlier. One of the Vrusks' mining colonies had already contacted another race, the shape-changing Dralasites. The two races had been exchanging information for several years. And I'm all for having Terledrom be the homeworld for the Vrusk, Inner Reach being the homeworld for the Dralasites, and Minotaur being the home world of the Humans. And that fits in with the statement above if the Vrusk sent out a mining colony to Drammune and found the Dralasites there just shortly before they first heard from humanity. I also like the Yazirians coming from "off map" initially but already being settled by the time the other three races ran into them. The funny thing about this is that having the Vrusk, Darlasites, and humans be "native" to the Frontier and having the Yazirians come from outside is exactly inverted from the way I interpret the canon statement in at the begining of the next paragraph in that introductory blurb. That says: The three races met in a large area of space known as the Frontier. There they also discoverd the Yazirians, a race of tall, maned humanoids. To me that says that the Yazirians were already there (whether native or transplanted) and that the other three race came from "somewhere else". Although you could interpret that "met" as referring to the events of establishing communications as well. Anyway, greay ideas jedi. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
February 29, 2012 - 8:07pm | Concerning religion and humanity; there would have been native religions that evolved on Theseus. Normally I'm the religion guy in the forums but today and for this I'm proposing atheism as a dominant belief on Minotaur. With the planet having gone through a period of dictatorial factist control its easy to imagine religion being supressed as it was in communist Russia. Any number of religions will have lingered and begin to re-emerge after the pressure is off. Those that are successful will be so because of a variety of factors: charisma of leaders, a message that meets felt needs, social ministry meeting physical needs, inertia from having command a huge percentage of the population prior to the unpleasantness. Any of these resurging religions can become plot element- pilgrims seeking greener pastures etc. The major reason for writing in the majority of the human home world as atheist or just not sure what they are is for simplicity. Its simple and easy to deal with and most peeps don't give any thought to religion in a sci fi game; its not like characters in the setting are clerics and have to declare that they follow Pelor and etc. It leaves room for some religion and for plot hooks base off of religion. Frontier version of the amish are immigrating to a new planet and hire a group with a ship but what they dont know is that pirates have picked the same world as a secret base and they are not about to let the PCs ship leave and blab about their presence. RE: Drals and religion- I like what we did in the core four project discussing dral philosophy and the stoa. Fact is that not all philosophies are by neccessity atheistic. In fact, with a thousand schools of philosophy many will have a nod of the head to something that looks like religious belief though that belief will be amorphous in nature ie not prone to having hard and fast beleifs. Something like the Fluidism philosophy/ religion that I created a while back. RE: Vrusk and religion- I sort of see these guys as the original atheist. However they do have religion, their belief and salvation is in their company. you could almost view those outside the trade house as "the damn" not that the other vrusk would put it that way but they would certainly see that phrase as apt with meaning. RE: The Yaz! dont really need to say much on this point. BTW: thanks for finding that reference tom I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 March 1, 2012 - 12:40am | I once went through the timeline and started ticking off the systems as they were discovered. The result was that all of the systems get discovered leaving none as a source for any. I also recorded who found each system and the humans are the expansionists. The other races are more lackadaisical about it for a long while. Also the locations of the first discovered systems are no where close to each other suggesting that the races entered the frontier from different directions. This leads me to believe that the AD statement of the Vrusk and Dralasites meeting happens out side of the frontier and was contact only by subspace as with the humans. Likely the mining colony picked up the dralasite subspace communications or vice versa but the vrusk home world did not. I've thus tended to believe that the races agreed to meet at a half way point and that turned out to be the frontier. My guess is that they chose neutral territory so as to protect themselves if their new friends didn't turn out to be friends. What I have never been able to rationalize is why the homeworlds stay out of the frontier's bussiness. But the topic of this thread seems to be not the unanswerable questions, but rather how can we put Earth culture into a non-earth species. My answer is just do it. I can use all the common references and such and come up with alternate history to support it when needed. Fortunately sci fi is generally forward looking so there is not much pressure play history. And we don't play with time travel so that cuts the sci fi out that does play with history. I enjoy discussing this and hearing all of the other ideas that people have about how the frontier was founded and formed so let's keep going. I myself am stale mated on it a bit and need to find some solid thinking to get me going again. -iggy |
 March 1, 2012 - 3:28am |
I always assumed that came from Hentz or Hargut, and that by "enter the Frontier", they meant "was discovered and became spacefarers." |
 March 3, 2012 - 6:00am | FWIW my vote: 1. homeworlds exist [but are] outside the setting (ie. some several decades-to-centuries travel off the map -; not counting the locals from relatively near-by - Yazirian, Ifshnit,(?)Vimh(?) etc... and the Yazirian Homeworld destroyed by a failing moon...) Personally, I prefer to use Earth... but... I assume the realistic situation created The Frontier from the ground up, free of the shackles of any history - and all homeworlds of the core-four is given to a faded 500-600yrs of legendary pre-historical myth... no one really cares [much] anymore. (the Vrusk have all but given up after traveling around the Xygag, just to be blocked again by yet-another-anomaly...) ...I would not count the Vrusk as out-right atheist - except by human standards. Spiritual Pragmatist vs. Supernatural Skeptic... the casual long debate... as opposed to Objective Zealots vs. Rejection Denialism (each arguing that the other is exactly what they are  ).I still hold to the idea that there is much room for Vrusk "religiosity" and vestigial "pre-corporate" concerns. Others have beat me to those pesky obscure references...  For me drawing the homeworlds in too close... and especially right in The Frontier Outback itself... makes it all that much more crowded!  Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 March 3, 2012 - 6:52pm | OK people, beings, whatever you are STOP over thinking this. Homeworlds are right there in the Frontier not somewhere else. What we have is just a basic name that has stuck. The four races found each other and started some colonies and we are presented with the results. Why is it called the Frontier? Simple even though the homeworlds are located within this area it is still mostly unexplored so called the Frontier. Even the homeworlds are frontier to the other three main races not from there. Think about the North American settlement. The Frontier was originally the coast line. It slowly spread as land was "settled". Of course the natives never considered it frontier, they thought it was settled nicely. The Frontier for our four races started to explore and continue to and just stick with the name given it way back when and it stuck. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
March 3, 2012 - 9:07pm |  Humans... they come from Earth... it's not over-thinking it... it's simple logic.over-thinking is what happens when I have to accept what a so-called Sci-Fi handed over as an "under-thought" tv-opera... as realistic... or when I chime in casually with multitudes who don't want to role-play a visit to the loo, but still believe the facilities should expectably BE there... and somehow it becomes a debate about not needing to use the option in the game because rules will muck it up... sorry... but I like my Science Fiction Scientific and my Fantasy Fiction Fantastic... As I have read the books for decades - no over-thinking, just how it reads... "The three races met in a large area of space known as the Frontier." to me this says it isn't a local backyard to the Three Homeworlds... the Vrusk did an end-run around the Xygag to find a ship and long range communications dish that did not make it through the nebula... and has a clear line-of-sight for communications back-home... again this suggests to me that the Vrusk world is well beyond the Xygag... ...then... "There they also discovered the Yazirians, a race of tall, maned humanoids." This very much says the Yazirians were already locals... and... "270 PF - Yazirian enter the Frontier." That they were just off the edge of the "Frontier Sector" by an original sector size reckoning (easily a ~64 to ~128 LY sphere) - most likely in what has been referenced (and widely accepted across decades of compiled interpratives from; WWW, BBS, ListServices, etc... fan-canon) as the PGC controlled Vast Expanse... I totally support this statement from Imperial Lord: "However, on the other hand, there is also a certain "purity" to NOT having Earth involved in a SF campaign at all. The desire to bring in Earth is understandable, perhaps even irresistible, but there is also something to be said for building a vast Human civilization, in the context of the Frontier, from scratch." However, I have a bloat of such games on my shelves... the "purity" is nigh-cliché... and arguing the counterpoint of versamilitude over artifice IS the underdog champion by merit of long-term denial of those who would prefer such consederation - even lightly... even... ambiguiously. ...and firmly stand on mine - as the middle ground: "Personally, I'd prefer to use Earth... but... I assume the realistic situation created The Frontier from the ground up, free of the shackles of any history - and all homeworlds of the core-four is given to a faded 500-600yrs of legendary pre-historical myth... no one really cares [much] anymore." Which to me is the best resolution of such ambiguity in the "Distant Homeworlds" theory - while allowing for a complete "doesn't affect the game world much anyway - ambiguity"... but Earth is out there IF you want it, and ignorable IF you don't... From there, yes! ~6 centuries of building from scratch eliminates the debate as a purely academic exercise, the core-populous worlds shown on the map are what they are, independently home-grown global colonial cultures - with sufficient history in the Frontier context to support the diversity, and still PLENTY of room right around the next dark-body, without even traveling beyond the ~100x100 lightyear flat-perspective of The Frontier's volumetric space... no one really needs to be concerned with what used to be several dozen sectors beyond the outer-most fringes of "known space". In short: I in no way want to step on the sentiments of others who have expressed a firm desire to keep Earth or any facsimile of it out of the fictional content context... I don't mean to dilute the proposals expressed in the purpose of this thread's topic. I would appreciate similar respect... and that some balance to a middle ground enter common "fan-canon" status that - like it or not - these boards do have some sway over more than others... and the Fanzine really represents in a "fan-canon stamp of approval"... ...or... I could just be having a minor moment of geek rage... and need to be dismissed...  Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
March 3, 2012 - 9:07pm | Not sure I really followed everything just typed but it sounded good. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 4, 2012 - 7:18am | Which is good if you want Earth involved which of course TOTALLY goes against the inside cover of the Basic Game Rules which states"Near the center of a great spiral galaxy, where stars are much closer together than Earth's sun and its neighbors, a Human race developed." So it states this isn't even Earth's Milky Way galaxy. SO NO EARTH. And geek rage aside you are still over thinking it. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
March 4, 2012 - 7:39am | nope... just ignoring the drivel-text you mentioned... and reading the rest of the book, which is what I did the first time I opened it. in a spiral galaxy - just like the milky way... in a denser area - than it would be out on an edge like Earth... the three races meet in an agreed upon middle ground. I didn't have to over-think it... I just ignored the one bit that was obvious to me expressing a fear of "reality/fantasy confusion" which again was not over thinking because at the time it was all over the media... TSR Corrupts Minds... and drives people insane... and such distancing techniques had become common disclaimer drivel... easily overlooked on the front-loaded book-cover where it can be showed of quickly (and was) in a Court, to a PTA meeting, or at a Church Intervention. I ignored it as SOP.. no thinking involved.  Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
March 4, 2012 - 8:32am | This was just a speculative thread, perhaps best read before you have your morning Turkish coffee. I thought it would be interesting to consider Imperial Lords point of view on this matter but I cannot fathom a frontier totally disconnected from the home worlds thus the speculation on what would the setting look like if we painted home worlds into it. Not sure I would use that myself but certainly a creative exercise that will probably produce ideas to be used somewhere. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 4, 2012 - 9:27am | I do think what has been speculated is merit-able on it's own perspective... but Han Solo disagrees Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 March 4, 2012 - 10:29am | In my campaigns, since I started playing Star frontiers back in high school (all those years ago when it first came out) I have always thought of Thesius as being earth and have always seen the Star Frontiers game as occuring Post Gamma World. My explanation was always that the "Last War" destroyed all records of pre Gamma World Earth. Humans eventually reclaimed the planet, and mutant kind over time died out due to very tough (facist) laws that were created to cause the death of that sub-species. This new Earth, known as Thesius no longer resembles pre Gamma World Earth and many of the mutant species (fauna and flora) are not considered mutations anymore, explaining why there are very few pre-Gamma world species on Thesius (except some animals that I am fond of, or fit into my Frontier). Thus after a long time technology on Thesius reached pre frontier levels and the Thesians began to look to the stars to expand their sphere of control, and then they discovered several other higher species, and the rest is as we say history. This idea of transitioning Earth into Thesius has always been popular with my gaming group, and has evolved into the timeline used in the Star Frontiers (URS) version of the Frontier. As for the other races, I have always thought of the Vrusk, and Dralasites originating inside the Frontier, and the Yazirian species coming from beyond the boundaries of the area of space that was designated the Frontier sector which occured as a result of that year long meeting between the then three Core Races. I see the Yazirians as having had to go through a period of being treated as a "Protected Species" until they colonized their first world, and surprised the other races as to how quickly they adapted to Frontier technology, making many Dralasites start using the phrase "Monkey see Monkey do" when referring to the quick advancements of the Yazirian species (though never said while in the Presence of a Yaz mind you). "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
March 4, 2012 - 11:17am |  Kagwang 4 life!!! Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 March 4, 2012 - 10:29pm | @ Daryn_Rys, I posted something like that in another thread. Basically I used the story line from the 3rd addition GW and that the humans in the Frontier came from one of the colony ships that left earth before the end of civilization and GW began. It all really comes down to what the GM wants to have as the history of their particular Frontier. In the end, ARE we having fun or not? |
March 5, 2012 - 3:12am | OK gang here's a question for you. The AD book states that a Human race developed out in the Frontier, different from Humans on Earth but still similar. OK besides living 200 years which is probably due to advanced medicine, how are Frontier Humans different than Earth Humans? Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
March 5, 2012 - 7:46am | They are typically stronger than your average human, and in better shape. The average joe on the street frontiersman can carry 45 kilograms (that's roughly 99 lbs) of equipment and still move at a good clip, which believe me is something the average earther can't do. "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
March 6, 2012 - 6:37am | OK so Frontier Humans live longer, are stronger and apparently don't mind the strange smells of the other races. Anything else? Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
March 6, 2012 - 9:06am | Their higher stamina suggests that they are more resistant to disease, and heal from conventional injury faster than a human. I would also guess that they don't suffer from attribute reduction as they age if you go by by core books (no mention of attribute reduction with aging if I recall correctly) so I guess certain things like muscle and bone attrophy, arthritis, and such are not something they suffer from, nor do they have vision problems. They also have a superior digestive system, enabling them to eat a wider variety of foods than a Terran can. They probably have higher reflexes, and reaction times. Basically they are Homo Sapien Superior. "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
March 6, 2012 - 9:54am | I like the aging tables in the SFman as optional rules- if I had a long running campaign I'd probably invoke them. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 6, 2012 - 11:16am | From the Remastered AD: Human skin color varies over a wide range, including pale white and pink, tan, pale yellow, red, brown and black. This color does not change as the Human matures. Most Humans have hair covering the top and back of the head, and males also have hair on their chins and throats. Hair color varies from white and yellow to red, brown and black, gradually changing to gray as the Human ages. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
March 6, 2012 - 11:55am | I think its a combination of both; at character generation its as the AD rules state but when a referee must make a judgement call I'm sure he relies on his personal exp. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
