 February 13, 2012 - 7:25am | Not dealt with when we talked out government and military issues before. I think we need a ifshnit currency that the CFM took to the stars and is the currency of the Rim but the humma will have their own that is used on their worlds and the PGC credit plus an exchange rate between all three. Plus a nearly defunct osakar currency that is being phased out in favor of the Com's. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 March 2, 2012 - 8:24pm | We did talk a little about Ifshnit currency as a byproduct of there rank system. I started to research coins with holes in them so that they could be woven into the Ifshnit beards. I didn't finish them then but I will try to finish this weekend.
Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
March 3, 2012 - 10:41am | Will you have pictures? If not I may be able to draw something. PM me if you want to collaborate. I think that I came to the conclusion that the ifshit currency would come to dominate the Rim largely through the actions of the CFM even though the CFM is highly likely to act as a money changer. For example a CFM captain is trading at Pale and a Streel executive has some humma script or coin from his last business trip to the Rim. Local banks will exchange it but due to its obscurity they charge a higher percentage. The CFM captain willing give a better exchange rate because its only a matter of time when he's back in the Rim and can use of at face value. Not only that but this same captain has a frequent customer on Gran Quivera that is an avid coin collector and having some obscure humma script or coin to toss in as a sweetener on the next deal would be a good idea as well. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 October 6, 2012 - 12:54pm | I like the idea of coins that they weave into their beards. I hadn't thought of that. I may have to incorporate that one into my campaign. My Ifshnits had standardized the Rim monetary system with Rim Credits (RC). The Osakar were naive about money, and had a non-monetary economy based on barter. The Humma had a chaotic economy, with several competing monetary systems, and could not agree on any form of standardization. The CFM system of RC was accepted by the others without much fuss, and has become the accepted monetary system. RC cash is in the form of flat, rectangular, durasteel strips. In addition, they have credit cubes, which are durasteel cubes with rounded edges, like dice. Credit cube readers exist throughout the Rim. These cubes come in 2 sizes - the Ifshnit use smaller ones than everyone else. |
October 10, 2012 - 4:48pm | I have a sample coin rank system in the download area, if anyone is interested. Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
October 11, 2012 - 2:20pm | Ok, i just whipped up an ifshnit ship captian while waiting for the kids to get off the bus. I incorporated jacobsar 's rank ideas into this. Note the very tradition triple coin rank designation braided into the side lock of his hair as well as the adapted rank insignia on his colar. Also of note the ifshnit flag (from the download section) on the patch and belt buckle.  I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 12, 2012 - 4:55am | NICE
IIRC we have some rank names for military ranks in the Flight, I'll have to dig those up.I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 12, 2012 - 2:37pm | Proposed by Will the Stampede in the http://www.starfrontiers.us/node/4544 Thread and its been modified by me to help explain the picture and chart following Pilot* Apprentice= one pip (lower grade precious metal) or 1 coin same metal Pilot*= one pip (higher grade precious metal) or 1 coin same metal Leading Pilot* = two pips (lower grade precious metal) or 2 coins same metal Pilot*Major= two pips (higher grade precious metal) or 2 coins same metal Shipmaster 2d Rank= three pips (lower grade precious metal) or 3 coins same metal Shipmaster 1st Rank= three pips (higher grade precious metal) or three coins same metal Squadron Master = four pips or 4 coins Group Master = five pips or 5 coins Wing Master = six pips or 6 coins Flight Master= six pips (higher grade precious metal) or 7 coins * substitute Engineer, Astrogator, or Gunner for those carreer tracks Note: this picture and chart is still WIP  I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 13, 2012 - 4:21am | Yeah, I was thinking the same thing - precious metals might not have the same values. As far as the metal color progression, maybe dull metal colors for the lower ranks, and get progressively brighter & shinier as you go up. Lowest = base metal color, such as darker gray like lead. Middle = coppery, but dull & dark Upper = shiny like silver or bright steel Top = bright gold, in a lighter color than copper Something like that. Of course there are other ranks in between... |
October 13, 2012 - 5:09am | Yeah, I was thinking the same thing - precious metals might not have the same values. As far as the metal color progression, maybe dull metal colors for the lower ranks, and get progressively brighter & shinier as you go up. Lowest = base metal color, such as darker gray like lead. Middle = coppery, but dull & dark Upper = shiny like silver or bright steel Top = bright gold, in a lighter color than copper Something like that. Of course there are other ranks in between... the enlisted ranks have proposed names but the look of the rank has not been adressed- I think we only need two for officer sliver and gold work for that. For enlisted its the same idea but the rank coins are 50% smaller, perhaps different shaped (square or triangle) and the two colors could be copper and silver so what to do with the precious metals; the Frontier has a metal called Federanium which seems to be very valuable so lets say that the ifshnits, if no body else, value this metal over all others. That its silver in color when polished. that makes gold the low grade precious metal in the officer rank progression. which then dove tails with enlisted ranks where copper is the low grade metal and silver is the high grade which creates a symetry with the officer ranks as the silvery metals are both the higher grade rank in both rank tracks. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 15, 2012 - 2:50am | Forgot about federanium for a minute there - of course it should be at the top. The stuff is indestructible! The rest of it sounds good to me. |
 October 24, 2012 - 9:03pm | The order of gold first then silver is actually, IIRC, the same order for LT's in the military. 2nd lt is a gold bar and 1st lt is silver. a major is a gold leaf and a lt col is a silver one. So that goes along with a familiar path anyway. |
October 25, 2012 - 8:38pm | I think for an alien race we should discard normal conventions. Remember we are theorizing that the Ifshnit rank grew out of a trading culture, not the aristocratic culture that gave us the whole enlisted/commissioned dichotomy. Discard the enlisted rank altogether. the rank system you have above is great. On the subject of the gold bar for 2nd lt, remember that is actually representing a cloth epaulette, not a metal rank. I think the gold coins representing the higher rank is more realistic. Gold has properties that make it prized beyond simple rarity; it reflects heat well, conducts electricity well, doesn’t tarnish. Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
October 25, 2012 - 8:41pm | Maybe the Ifshnit have coins of orichalcum. This would give us a bright red coin to play with. Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
October 27, 2012 - 2:16am | Orichalcum - I like that. Maybe they have additional metals as well... |
 October 27, 2012 - 2:46am | I went searching for red metals for this thread a week or two ago. I found nothing. I like the color red for these coins and want a metal to go with the color. I then read the wikipedia article on orichalcum and was disappointed with its description of the color of orichalcum, it is not red but a pink gold at best. -iggy |
October 27, 2012 - 3:21am | OK, I've been studying on Wikipedia and I think anodized titanium might fit the ifshnit bill. From Wikipedia, titanium: Titanium is a chemical element with the symbol Ti and atomic number 22. It has a low density and is a strong, lustrous, corrosion-resistant (including sea water, aqua regia and chlorine) transition metal with a silver color. From Wikipedia, anodizing: Anodizing titanium generates an array of different colors without dyes, for which it is sometimes used in art, costume jewelry, body piercing jewelry and wedding rings. The color formed is dependent on the thickness of the oxide (which is determined by the anodizing voltage); it is caused by the interference of light reflecting off the oxide surface with light traveling through it and reflecting off the underlying metal surface. I can see Ifshnit prizing anodized titanium for its durability when exposed to sea water. This plays on the seafaring past of their society. If currencies developed out of the first ship captains they could have switched to titanium when they discover it and its corrosion resistance in sea water. Later they applied colors by anodizing when the process was discovered because it made the displays of coins weaved into their hair more attractive. A strict color hierarchy later developed to match coin values and ranks. -iggy |
October 27, 2012 - 5:52am | Alright, I like iggy's idea about titanium and the orichalcum suggestion, good stuff. I've been munching on jacobsar's comment about ditching the enlisted rank it mates up with the presentation of the ranks in Warriors of White Light module which we all read into an enlisted rank structure due to our inate prejudices. I'm reminded about a quote from Napolean's time about that in every Private's knapsack was a Colonel's baton and in every Sgt.'s knapsack a Marshal's baton. the point of the quote was that Napolean was prone to promote on performance and didn't care a hoot where a man started simply that he could do the job he was being promoted too. I'm struggling with the idea of a ship run without enlisted- it just seems to me that there needs to be a chain of command (perhaps the ifshnits call it the knoted rope of command instead of chain?) perhaps the ifshnits have one rank structure and who ever is the captain is essentially a little Napolean- with power to promote as he sees fit based on capability. Perhaps higher rank of Captain, commadore, admiral is only based on the number of ships at one's disposal- its simply that you've reach command rank and if you are in command of one or two ships then you are a captain. but if you have a squadron then you are a commadore, and so on up but if you are beached and not currently in command of any ship than you are simply "command" with attached years of seinority I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 27, 2012 - 9:52am | For the Ifshnit I would think part of the merit for promotion to command rank, especially captain, would be their track record of profitable deals. I am not trying to make these guys Ferengi in any way, just to highlight the merchant structure. So a captain that was successful at getting goods to market on time would get a second ship. He doesn't have to sell the items per say, just fill his business contracts to get the product to his salesmen and distribution channels. I see these guys having a culture where the business ladder is very integrated into who they are. Ifshnit's that climb the business ladder of the Cappellen Free Merchants get rank in their society. This is their military. What we have never explored is what the Ifshnit who are not working in the Cappellen Free Merchants do to place themselves in the social hierarchy. We could make it that all Ifshnit must do a mandatory tour of duty in the CFM then off to civilian life or re-up. -iggy |
October 27, 2012 - 9:06pm | Iggy, that's great. Naturally, there should be some sort of economic element in their military structure. The best merchants would have the highest rank. Maybe they even have to "buy" their promotions in some way. I know when I was overseas, every job seemed to need someone to "cross their palms with gold". They didn't consider it corruption, and they didn't even seem to understand the concept. It was just what you did. Perhaps the Ifshnit have to make regular "donations" to fund their military, and those who donate more are assumed to be the most capable businessmen / leaders, and are thus given leadership positions. |
October 28, 2012 - 2:48am | Re: Ifshnit society, I tackled that a little in the Zebulon's guide to the Rim article I wrote which never actually made it into print. One point was very telling in the canon setting material: the fact that you have a system with one world named Homeworld and yet the CFM is headquartered on Faire. Also that the CFM seems to be the power driving things in the Rim and not any government associated with Homeworld. I wrote this into the timeline I developed to explain the evolution of the CFM- that during the age of sail on Capella there was a long history of associations of merchants banding together for support and protection. This was obstensibly because cartels had formed which were not about individual merchants supporting each other but top down control much like a drug cartel on earth, though much politer due to the ifshnit character. The cartels had formed in essence a world government and rigged the rules in thier favor and any Free Merchant association that got out of line in their opinion got smacked down. In comes the ifshna space age and the cartels initially overlook and laugh at the whole thing. But Faire is discovered to be a world ocean and since one of the ifshnit passions is sailing its almost viewed as a "gift of Capella" for a while space travel and exploration is carried on by individual ifshnit houses and the population on Faire, while small, has been growing by leaps and bounds. Since a whole slew of free merchants have been getting rich in the process the cartels finally take notice and decide to muscle the free merchants out like they have done all through history, the ifshnit's first space explorer had organized a free merchant association of space exploring ifshnit houses called the CFM and when the cartels hit the space faring houses and seized launch facilities (and killing many of the CFM's people on the ground) on Homeworld the CFM responed by dropping large chunks of rock (asteroid) into Homeworld's gravity well. they were aimed at spots just off shore of major enclaves of the biggest cartels which were decimated. The war was over in a month with the preistesses of the Mist Stone arbitrating the peace contract. which divided the control of territory. the cartels and their board would continue to rule homeworld but would concede one launch facility to the CFM. The CFM would have responsibility for everything off Homeworld. The CFM also demanded a halt to the breaking of free merchant associations on Homeworld when they got big enough for the cartels to take notice. The cartels laughed in their sleeves thinking they got the lion share and best piece of the settlement but they also began developing planetary defense batteries which also came in handy when the worms showed up. The CFM, by default became a system government. They were mindful of what the cartels were working on and thus armed their ships as well which prepared them for the sathar's arrival as well. However, when the sathar did arrive their first instinct was to open new avenues for trade and new markets which allowed the sathar to get the jump on them. It also lead to the one tradgedy that ensured the everlasting hate of the ifshnit for the sathar as a race. The priestesses of the mist stone refused to abandon the mist stone and were slaughtered by the sathar. the sathar had not actually come in large enough numbers to conquor a world with the population density of Homeworld despite a successful "Pearl Harbor" and initial landing. The CFM and the cartels regrouped and destroyed the worms. Then next incursion by the Worms saw both of these groups ready for them and Capella became a meat grinder for the sathar. I've compiled an extensive history that brings the Rims timeline upto the discovery with the UPF, covers the discovery of the humma and the osakar and the developement of the Rim Coalition and the Flight as well as attempts to explain the humma's hate for the sathar which is said to be greater then anyone else's. Much of that material is in the documents section minus the actual time line and a sort of creation myth I developed for the ifshnit. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 28, 2012 - 11:37am | @jedion, Great review of past threads. This stuff was sticking in my subconscious when I was commenting in my last post. I wonder if the CFM brought greater military structure than the cartels ever provided before. I can also imagine that the cartels were not prone to merit promotions. Blood likely determined rank, not previous accomplishments. The CFM would have been a big improvement in military structure. -iggy |
October 28, 2012 - 12:09pm | Thank you iggy, Re: no enlisted ranks - perhaps we can change this to one coin is just plain crew with two grades of color for senior and rookie crew. Then start out the officier rank titles at two coin with a senior most crew without the pilot, astrogator, engineer or weapons officer title at the lowest grade of two coins for those really senior crew that never attained to the titled positions. On the upper end we just loose the top grade of admiral or introduce a new color scheme? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 28, 2012 - 12:46pm | Jedion, that is a great history - I like things with that degree of depth. Now I'm going to have to look for those documents... |
October 28, 2012 - 12:50pm | I've been toying with the coins being triangles with three holes, one for each corner. This fits in with the ifshnit having three fingers. Also is allows a type of mail to be made by linking the corners together. Finally it is not like the old Chinese money of Earth. Coins linked as mail could look like this but inverted. The ASCII art didn't work to good upside-down. /\ /\/\ /\/\/\ /\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ This makes me imagine their the rank structure could be very deep with large mail vests for ceremonial occasions and then simpler clusters used with a hierarchy of colors for everyday use. -iggy |
October 28, 2012 - 1:37pm | Its a good idea iggy, but now I have to redraw my rank diagram :) I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
November 7, 2012 - 2:50pm | Good stuff iggy. As to the rank discussion, you guys are still holding on to officer rank/enlisted rank paradigm. Just let go...The Mongols and early Mayans had ranks that were just like "leader of ten" and "leader of 100" etc. There was a rank structure just no aristocrats. Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
November 7, 2012 - 4:16pm | Good stuff iggy. As to the rank discussion, you guys are still holding on to officer rank/enlisted rank paradigm. Just let go...The Mongols and early Mayans had ranks that were just like "leader of ten" and "leader of 100" etc. There was a rank structure just no aristocrats. Hebrews of the kingdom period had Captian of 10, captian of 100, and ect. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 18, 2014 - 8:10am | Originally, I drew the ifshnit below with chinese style coins for rank insignia and someone suggested making them triangular. It just occured to me that they really should be triangular because it represents the three species of the Rim Coalition. Perhaps CFM uses the circular coins? But the Flight's rank tabs, while styled on the CFM, represent a conscious design choice to represent the unity of the rim coalition. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
