 February 7, 2012 - 12:34pm | Hrm, government's are always concerned with cost and it seems to me that moving a prison from place to place will incur an added cost (fuel) over a prison that is stationary. Not sure what the incentive would be for a government entity to move an entire prison around. On the other hand, keeping a prison ship with a handful of high risk inmates moving around could help with security by making it so that prospective inmate rescuers may not be able to readily find their inmate to rescue! So, I think that on a small scale, dealing with just a few high risk inmates, keeping them aboard a ship and moving them around constantly might be a viable security tactic. But It doesn't make much sense to me to do so with a large population of inmates. I don't have to outrun that nasty beast my friend...I just have to outrun you!  |
 February 7, 2012 - 2:06pm | And of course you can then get ConAir in space when the ship has a malfunction for some reason and the prisoners are on the loose. But overall, I agree with Rollo's assesment. It's not cost effective for general use but maybe for some high profile convicts. It much cheaper to build it on the ground in some remote location. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 February 7, 2012 - 5:33pm | I think prisoner transport makes more sense then prison ship, IMO. Or life in cryogenic sleep Ala Demolition Man. You know its a life sentence when its life in cryo. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 7, 2012 - 6:10pm | The British did something like this and I think it ended up being called Austrialia |
 February 7, 2012 - 8:01pm | I agree with the general consensus. It is way to expensive to have a gen pop prison ship or station. But really, even high risk criminals do not even need a moving prison. They just need some super secret asteroid to be housed. But that asteroid could be moved, or in a special orbit that only Star Law has the coordinates for. |
February 7, 2012 - 8:10pm | Unless the population was exposed to some rare plague and the ship was designed to keep these dangerous infected prisoners away from others by sending them into space. The repeating beacon warning other ships from approaching. |
 February 7, 2012 - 8:19pm | Unless the asteriod had a completely self contained atmosphere than some supply ships would be necessary but you still have living guards that need rotations home for breaks so keeping its location secret would be a problem. An old starship with main engines removed and thursters in place for station keeping could be cost effective. The prisoners could be kept busy on maintenance which if they didn't do could mean their deaths. Interior guards and additional exterior weapons along with perimeter beacons to keep unwanted people away. Now do not forget even lifers get visitors. Some accommondation must be made for prisoners to see loved ones and lawyers and yes even wacko fans. This is often left out of prison movies but in reality would bring the "screaming heart liberals" out in droves if not done. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 7, 2012 - 8:20pm | If I was a government I would do the English thing and put them on their own planet. Cheaper. The problem I just realized though is if you put them on an inhabitable planet, you have now made it uncolonizable. There are several movies where they have a base on a very unhospitable planet that is used as a prison. I just think it would be cheaper than a ship. That way some body could shift funds and line there pockets with credits. Another idea. Have prisoners working a mega corp mine or being experimented on by the mega corp. Inexpensive labor, all they have to do is house them. No wages. |
February 7, 2012 - 9:03pm | @ Rattraveller, Are there "screaming heart liberals" in Star Frontiers? |
February 7, 2012 - 9:59pm | In my concept the prisoners would be in cryo with minimal robot guards. No visitors for this lot, they had long been given up for dead. Either something happens and the passengers start to awaken or the PC's stumble across the ship thinking it is salvage and accidently awaken the crew. The ship should be fully functional but maybe just coasting on intermittent engine bursts. The ship would be left functional as the its somewhat humane builders considered that maybe someday a cure could be developed so the ship would have to have the capacity to be recalled or found in the future. |
February 8, 2012 - 7:44am | Well as long as no one starts yelling Khan!!! you could go all out and use this: The PCs discover a ship filled with Yazirians. They are all frozen in cryo sleep and the ship is autopilot and robot controlled. Deciding to wake them up or they get out. The PCs soon find out they have found the "Unspeakable Clan of the Yazirian". Back on the homeworld this clan attempted to take over the others, the Ultimate Warriors (genetic engineering use it or not) it took all the other clans fighting together to stop them. Once defeated the other clans could not bring themselves to kill the last remnants of the Unspeakable Clan. So they set them adrift in space. Now the PCs have found them and they are ready to get back to business. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 February 8, 2012 - 8:50am | Often times when designing adventures I try to go with "what would make for a good Adventure" rather then think overly much about the economic feasability of a situation. That said in my Frontier which is set 100 years or so after the cannon material, the UPF has several Prison stations that were decomissioned space Fortresses built at the end of the UPF Ordanian Conflict and are now used to house High Risk or Political Prisoners. Criminals who can be rehabilitated are given the option to either join the Colonial Marine corps. or can serve out their time either as part of a shake and bake colony; terraforming some marginal planet or can work in the Asteroid mines. "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
February 8, 2012 - 9:16am | @ Rattraveller, Are there "screaming heart liberals" in Star Frontiers? Yes. The Alliance for the Rights of the People (ARP) Classification: Cadre Intelligence Source: Dragon #109 "Patriots, Terrorists, and Spies" by Kim Eastland This cadre is a legal, liberal, political organization dedicated to upholding the rights of the citizens of the Frontier. While this appears to be a noble cause, the ARP has recently enacted a policy of political pressure to limit the authority of Star Law and other local law enforcement groups. This campaign includes holo-vid promotions portraying law enforcement agents as looming shadows that are always waiting for the average citizen to slip up. The ARP also feels that the practice of maintaining penal colonies (currently located on asteroids) is cruel and tht criminals should at least be kept planet side, within the influence of civilization. On the other hand ARP also has been the leading organization defending Rim immigrants who wish to live in UPF space against those cults and cadres that want them deported. The ARP has its headquarters on Laco. It sometimes allies itself with the Frontier Peace Organization. and The Frontier Peace Organization Classification: cadre Intelligence Source: Zebulon's Guide to the Frontier The Frontier Peace Organization (FPO) believes that too many credits are being spent on Star Law, Landfleet, and Spacefleet. Lately, they have even suggested that one of the reasons for the sathar attacks is the sathar fear of a UPF and Rim military threat to their existence. The FPO promotes isolationism for the UPF and extreme cutbacks in military units on all planets and in the UPF in general. This organization is an arch-enemy of the Anti-Satharian League. Yes, the Frontier has bleeding heart liberals. They exist everywhere like roaches. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 8, 2012 - 9:18am | Well as long as no one starts yelling Khan!!! you could go all out and use this: The PCs discover a ship filled with Yazirians. ..... How did you know I had a yazirian PC named Khan? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 14, 2012 - 8:46am | I can see the value of a prison ship. Just like in our own times, it would be helpful to have some deniability about who you have in custody and who you don't as well as, "now, where the heck did we put that guy?" I'm not a big fan of cryo-prisons. It sounds like a reward to me. Sort of like getting away with sleeping through an advanced math class. Unless of course you can keep their mind alert and active while their body is immovable. I like to keep practicality in mind when making a story. One way to make a prison ship work is by simply putting the appropriate criminals (there shouldn't be too many nefarious enough to merit such a prison) in a confined suite in the bowels of heavy duty military ships that are routinely on deep patrol. They can be accessed by government intelligent agents for interrogations and fairly safe from rescue with not extra cost for security. |
February 14, 2012 - 9:21am | Ah kids these days they think they invented everything. Prison ships are an old idea. Look up how they were used during the American Revolution. Try putting your PCs aboard one of those type prison ships and see how they scream. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 14, 2012 - 10:18am | Bring out the space galleys. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
February 14, 2012 - 11:28am | True enough ratt. But there is a good reason that they are not used anymore. I'd much rather prefer devils island. I am sure the guards would as well. Those types of prison ships ended up being slow functioning execution chambers. However, I could see short term use of space ships (cargo haulers perhaps) as detention centers (read Prisons) in orbit around a warring world. In time prisoners can be processed out, or the war ends and the 'detainees' can be unceremoniously dumped back dirt side. |
February 14, 2012 - 3:30pm | Yes that was the point. The British thought the war was going to be short and all these misguided citizens would soon be released. They were also in what amounted to the US situation in Afghanistan were some of the population was friendly but alot weren't so they needed somewhere secure to keep them. This problem was amplified after the battles on Long Island and New York City where t thousands were captured. Parliament wanted them hung but the military commanders thought that was a bad idea and also hoped to trade them for captured British and Hessian soldiers or at least not give the Americans an excuse to hang their soldiers. Are you getting all this cause we are writing a really good prison ship story here. A group of anti-establishment types get rounded up and put on an old freighter for what is supposed to be a few weeks but after several years are still on it. The prison ship has pretty much been forgotten by the planetary government except for the small underfunded department who run it. Now the PCs stumble across it and the fun begins: 1) Help the wrongfully accused escape. 2) Get taken hostage and have to escape themselves. 3) Get used by the warden for some sneaky purpose. 4) Become neutral third party investigators of a murder where everyone on the station is a suspect. 5) Asked to deliver a message to person(s) outside and the Mega-corp who runs the station does not want that because it would mean the station would be closed down so they send blockers. 6) ZOMBIES Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 February 14, 2012 - 5:39pm | 7) Fly it to BoneYard Station and sell it for scrap. 8) Realease hull scrapers and watch the fun via remote holo feeds. 9) Retrieve a prisoner, escort to her final trial 10) Place a prisoner 11) Deliver parts to a station under construction |
