 December 28, 2011 - 4:25pm | Fantastic new technology will change the future of home materials. How could we apply this to the Star Frontiers universe? How would it affect supply availability in a game? View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 December 28, 2011 - 6:41pm | uhhhh, if you recall my prototype minatures project...I used a french company to 3d print the the prototypes. I am still sitting on that project because no one really took an intersest in it and Spyder's plasitc molds were much cheaper. Anyway, my project is still alive and well but I don't hold out hope that anyone besides me will ever purchase the mini's. At 15mm they weren't bad in price at 25mm they get a little pricey and shipping eats up my profit margin fast. I would love to see them put 3d printing in public libraries but you will see that they will still cost a lot for producing models of any significant size. |
December 29, 2011 - 12:27am | I was actually referring to in-universe, how it would affect the characters and the story in general. I have no money and therefore no interest in discussing applications to figure design. To be clear: This thread is not about miniature figures. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 December 29, 2011 - 5:40am | Well I imagine that in game a technician could get a specific part on demand rather then carrying a bunch of parts he may or may not need. If characters had a printer available they might print out plastic screws and boltss to fix their ground car knowing full well it will breakdown in a few km. Or the get access to a targets vehicle and swap out some parts with printed plastic so that the target won't notice anything and will go a few km and suffer a vehicle breakdown. I suppose we can also imagine similar tech for metal parts but the truth is if a technician had a full up shop with real world machines he'd be able to fashion metal parts, it would just take time if he was doing it himself instead of a computer doing it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 December 29, 2011 - 9:54am | In game use I would limit this to being aboard ship or at a repair facility. Mainly because of the power requirement and the time requirement to create the part. Do not life to be easy on the players do we. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
December 29, 2011 - 3:20pm | jedion, they use more than plastic for 3D printing. Imagine a carbon composite flitboard or screw. These would be far more durable and useful than plastic. Also, you seem to be limiting its application within what is currently done with the process, while in its infant stages. 3D printing is going to evolve far beyond what it does today. Look upward and onward, not horizontally. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 December 31, 2011 - 1:08am | I suppose that is would be possible to lay down layers of iron atoms with some kind of electromagnetic gun. Then you could print bolts and engine parts. -iggy |
December 31, 2011 - 6:59am | What I want is a box in the wall next to my computer desk that I can speak out loud to and say, "Coffee, black, no suffer."and bam there it is. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 31, 2011 - 8:14am | Ah Jed don't they call those things Keurig coffee makers? Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
December 31, 2011 - 9:32am | Ah Jed don't they call those things Keurig coffee makers? Actually, I've tried coffee from a knock off version of the Keurig and poured the crap down the drain. It's not as good as real brew. No, I was thinking about my favorite feature in Picard's Ready Room.But my real point is that we're actually drifting into replicator technology here and that will prehaps change the setting to something else. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 31, 2011 - 4:16pm | Captain Picard---Tea, Earl Grey, Hot Chief O'Brien---Jamacan Blend, Double Strong, Double Sweet Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
December 31, 2011 - 4:27pm | Tea? Bah! Real spacers drink coffee, strong Dominican or Brazilian coffee. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 31, 2011 - 5:30pm | Sorry boys but the proper space drink is TANG! -iggy |
December 31, 2011 - 8:57pm | Well, the setting, I think, was based upon what is familiar to us. That said, if we can do it so easily, why couldn't they? They're out traveling the stars and look where we're at. I mean, they have a bamf bin, why not a fabricator? View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
December 31, 2011 - 8:59pm | TANG! The official drink of Snoop Dog. ;) View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 January 1, 2012 - 1:40am | I don't use the bap-bins, but I might consider a fabricator, ranging from; Class Alpha: 'power-hungry', 'factory-sized', and 'garbage-fed' - Colony/Corporate Industrial Recyclers to Class Omega: 'low-power', 'man-portable', and 'single-material' - Field/Emergency Component Compensators Not the transporter/replicator technology where n material is used to matrialize any other n material, but the type that if you have a bin of x material and a method to deconstruct said x material into a storable malleable form, then you can reconstruct said x material into another form... but with potential atomic loss, and the problem of porting large amounts of the required material x(s) for higher quality products -or- reducing storage requirements of material x(s) for reduced quality components (basic polymers). Either way, expensive and/or fairly-rare machines, starting at a several thousand credits and going up exponentially by category... easily breaking 2million credits before Class Nu-(r12) and well over 4,000,000,000 for a Class Alpha-(r24)... Class rank being an indicator of how many of the most stable elements are in the 'portfolio' for reconfiguration and storage, and about how many cubic meters (rank to the power of rank*rank) can be processed in a reasonable time-frame (say hours per rank) in one direction (from source of monomerization to storage, from storage to polymerization of product). Some elements are out of the question [imho] (or at least some of these may only be available to Class Mu-(r13) or higher) - nothing from the Inner transition metals (f-block) for example (or nearly anything along Period 6 or 7 for that matter)... Also suspect for exclusion are the Halogens and Noble gases (Group 17 & 18), Alkali metals (Group 1 & 2, including the nonmetal Hydrogen), and Technetium (a transition metal from decay, in Period 5)... Which only leaves ~35 base elements to choose from... and isn't perfect science (and actually makes the scientist in me feel a little abused) but a starting-point and nice approximate for game purposes and genre balance [imho]. Using the standard periodic table for reference, the same elements on Theodor Benfey's and the Flower periodic tables (likely popular with Dralasites), the Pyramidal and Stowe periodic tables (likely popular with Vrusk), or the TROPE and Circular periodic tables (likely popular with Yazirians), despite their rearrangements...  I could go for more with different polymers (natural polymers, synthetic polymers, biopolymers, and proteins)... but this is a nice basic start... and the processes of printing 3d templates made of full-fledged polymers from stored goop-bins - are not exactly the same as the "Digital Alchemy Printer" referred to as the "sci-fi future-tech" aspect of the technology using "recycled garbage"... similar, but not really enough to be handled in the same design paradigm. ...not done thinking about it, tweaks and issues abound, but I will leave it here for now. Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
January 1, 2012 - 7:12am | One wonders at the economics of this and my gut reaction for game balance is that replicator material should represent a net loss of money, energy, or material in someway over regular methods of obtaining it. Thus making this an emergency fall back tech because, "Scotty, I need warp drive in 4 minutes or we're all dead!" Sorry just watched the Wrath of Kahn but you get the basic idea. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 1, 2012 - 9:18am | Looking deep you find that there are some things in Star Trek that were never quite explained properly. Thier economy for one. Replicators converting energy into matter mean you really don't need to build things since most things could be replicated so no factories and so on and so on. One of the movies Kirk stated they didn't use money in his time (the one with the whales).BUT other races used currency like gold-pressed latinum which guessing could not be replicated. After Wolf 359 using replicators they said they could replace the 40 destroyed ships in 18 months. Not sure where the few thousand crew members were coming from. Interesting note since most wars end up wars of attrition wonder how they decide when to stop fighting with that kind of replacement rate. Of course most perplexing is why a Frenchman who grew up on a vineyard would have a favorite drink of English tea. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
January 1, 2012 - 1:14pm | He was a rebellious youth and got hooked on it from his rebel without a clue days. My personal favorite is the scene in "All Good Things" when the aged Picard goes to see Data at Oxford and ask for earl gray but gets Darjeeling. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 1, 2012 - 7:45pm | There is no economy in Star Trek. It's been eliminated. As Picard said, no one wants or strives for anything in the Federation. However, in Star Frontiers, there is an economy, but how do we know that a laser pistol isn't produced by one of those machines? How do we know that the Credit cost isn't the cost for constructing it with one of those machines? The rules never cover how you acquire the weapons and equipment. Technically, you just magically have it at the beginning of each adventure. Where does it come from? A fabricator is easily enough to explain. You not only pay for the materials, but you also have to purchase the one-off design specs that you feed into the fabricator. Perhaps, if you want a fabricating machine aboard your ship, you also have to pre-purchase a block of elemental materials that contribute to fabrication. Even electronic wire can be fabricated using a device that melts metal with a an electronic arc device. You simply have to have the materials available and a fabricating machine will make it for you. But purchasing normally only requires going to a credit-fed fabricating machine on some planet and out pops whatever you need up to a certain size limit, of course. Maybe even aboard ship, you still have to pay for it. The Captain invests in the materials, and the crew pays for their use of those materials. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
January 2, 2012 - 3:04am | Replicators of course can only do part of the job. In both SF and Star Trek we have robots and the later Star Treks holograms to do most of the grunt work in assembling larger items and gathering raw materials. So with no material needs to be strived for what do all these beings do with all thier time. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
January 2, 2012 - 4:12am | As Picard said, "To better ourselves. To experience all that life has to offer without the concern for where the next meal comes from". (Or something to that effect.) But this isn't about Star Trek. This is about a game where an economy still matters. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
January 2, 2012 - 9:25am | Actually since the PCs are seldom concerned with money since they usually have most things provided for them or are in places where money does not matter (Volturnus anyone) maybe we should think a little more on PC economy. Such as does anyone have a 401k plan? Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
January 4, 2012 - 6:05am | I suppose you could reward players with a bonus in shares from the company. The can sell immediately and spend the money or let it ride, receiving even more money down the road when they do sell. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 4, 2012 - 6:53am | Or less, if their fund manager decides to invest their 401k in high risk futures. The stock market isn't really all that bright an idea. I seriously doubt companies would be publically traded in such an advanced society with hundreds of years of hard economic lessons under their belts. (That is to say, I don't think the stock market has a long-term future. Eventually people would get pissed off enough to take it out of the away, if it were to even survive the removal of a fractional reserve debt-money system that would undoubtedly become a problem in every alien society until it's eventually wiped out forever, likely before they ever even hit the stars.) View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
January 4, 2012 - 9:03am | Many things continue long past what they should simply because of inertia. Everyone agrees gas powered vehicles are a bad idea but look at every street corner and you see why they aren't going away. So much of the economy is tied into gas that changing it is gonna take a massive upheveal. The stock market is the same way. It has been around for centuries and for most companies it is such a source of income and for many regular people it is thier life plan and work that it will not be gone anytime soon. Heck the great depression which took out most of the world's economies did not kill it. The current not so great depression is also tied to it and everyone just ran around trying to prop it up (yes I know housing was the big part but housing securities were the failing). Now can a stock market survive an interplanetary none instantaneous communication environment. Well since it started before electricity I am guessing the Frontier has a rock and rolling Stock Market of some kind. Stock options for the PCs as a reward sounds good. It ties them to the company and insures they work toward keeping it healthy. Also the GM can vary the reward when they cash them in to better suit game play. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 January 4, 2012 - 9:41am | And one of the rewards in AD4: Mission to Alcazzar was exactly that. The option to buy up to 5000 cr of stock in CDC. It even has a d10 table to determine how the stock value changes each year. A little simplistic but the basic premise is already there in the system. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
January 4, 2012 - 9:51am | Forgot about that one. Well at least we have somewhere to start. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
January 4, 2012 - 3:25pm | I suggest leaving the "not so great" part out of your commentaries. Facts have shown that the current depression exceeds the 1930's depression by some orders of magnitude. We simply don't have a dust bowl to appear to magnify it as well, and also the fact that instead of starvation among the poorest, you simply have a much larger group of people that are incapable of buying things the way they used to. The unemployment level has also exceeded the unemployment level of the great depression. Banks have forecloased on a larger percentage of properties in this depression than they did in the great depression by many times over. That's just in America. This depression has taken hold in the entire world. All this has occurred in a much shorter timeframe than the 1930's depression did as well and things are still getting worse at breakneck speeds. The problem is that the news agencies and entertainment industry have done a bang-up job of hiding these facts from a disconnected and jaded society. America has become like the proverbial frog that doesn't know it's being boiled. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 January 8, 2012 - 10:21am | The depression has taken a seriuos hold on the world. I wonder if that could be possible in the frontier but with the distances and the time it takes for news to travel, will that keep a depression from spreading throughout the frontier? |
January 8, 2012 - 1:25pm | For the Frontier a depression could be very serious. Part of the reason the current economic troubles are so serious is that for the last couple decades the world moved toward globalization which is just another way to say specialization. Instead of everyone providing for themselves and only trading for what they could not obtain or create on their own, regions now make whatever items they can the most inexpensively and drive other regions out of that business. Of course when everyone was producing full throttle this worked. Once one region went down the whole system got shook up as there were no longer back ups and redundancies. This could be economic or natural such as Greece's debt or Japan's earthquake. The current trend of on keeping a day's or week's worth or material on hand and only ordering your immediate needs has only acerbated the problem. The Frontier where some planets are dependant on others for items such as food or high tech parts or raw materials then any disruption in supply could see planetary recessions which would only be magnified down the trading routes. So when some planets needed to be evacuated because of war or plague it could be decades or centuries to rework the Frontier economy. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
