 November 7, 2011 - 9:42am | What's the Frontier equivalent of the Virginia Military Institute? Has to have 'story' and a name. Controversy is optional but always good for story like VMI having to integrate women. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 7, 2011 - 1:57pm | For reference; |
November 7, 2011 - 2:12pm | Looks like you need a reason for organizing which predominately is war or conflict. The organization needs to be legitimized. |
 November 10, 2011 - 8:40am | You mean a military academy that isn't run by the UPF or Star Law, but has a strong reputation among the rest of the Frontier? Space-naval or ground military? 1. We've talked a lot about Clarion's military reputation in that project, but I don't recall a crown-sponsored formal training school. 2. One of the mercenary arms of a megacorporation might work. The idea of a 4-year school seems to clash with a corporate ideal, but I don't see why it couldn't be done. There should be at least one spacer-training school for ship's captains, with a high reputation for navigation and so on, so a naval school might do the trick. 3. I'm certain there's a Yazirian clan war school that ought to do it. To replicate the VMI aura, it should be at least as old as any UPF school, and have a rivalry with it. |
November 10, 2011 - 10:25am | Yazirian clan war school complete with non-yazirian classes. :-) |
November 10, 2011 - 2:07pm | Yeah, I'm talking about a school that predates the UPF, perhaps started as a school for troubled youth with not quite the full military emphasis in the beginning but it evolved into a classic military academy where its graduates are highly sought after by space and ground fleet, militias, and mercenary forces like Merco. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 11, 2011 - 12:18am | I wonder if this is a vrusk thing. We have little explored the vrusk military mind. Yet I feel that coming out of the hive culture would be some very critical thinking about warfare and that the vrusk would turn that into tightly controlled intellectual property as they developed into the corporate society they are now. For vrusks to become trained in the Art of War they would have to prove themselves capable and pay a high price to the owners of this IP. Then as the vrusk integrate with the other races the yazirians, dralasites, and humans are seen as new potential customers. Add to that the conflicts and new demand for graduates during the founding of the frontier and they begin to flourish without becoming a giant because they have only ever taken the top and most dedicated. ??? VMI = Vrusk Military Institute ??? They train leaders not just soldiers. In the hive the larvae were trained only to be soldiers. Leaders were created from soldiers who proved themselves capable to be leaders. Thus they naturally take only young new molted vrusk and their equivalents in the other races, teenage yazirians and humans, and dralasites who are about to gain their voice in society. -iggy |
November 11, 2011 - 6:37am | Did Iggy just hit a double? One here and one in the clan size thread? I like it! Vrusk Military Institute! Ding! That works for me. In keeping with the work done before concerning vrusk pacifism it didn't start as a military institute but as an advanced leadership school with graduates being highly sought after or groomed for upper management in the trade houses. The first non vrusk attendee was a dralasite. Its location is almost certainly Terledrom. With exploding needs for well trained leaders in the military expansion of the SW1 a very high number of graduates were drafted and performed with measurably higher performance then other officers. One thing to another and the school morphed into a military institute though its history predates the UPF and even contact with other races. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
November 12, 2011 - 1:55pm | Due to the wars in their past, I'm doubting they would dedicate a scool, larvea, etc., to the art of war. However, they would have historians recant that past, if only to avoid it. |
November 12, 2011 - 3:48pm | This is not a school for larva, but rather the vrusk equivalent of human 14-18 year olds perhaps 16-20 year olds. It focuses on leadership theory and practice with its original mandate being the training of leaders for business. But with so many of its graduates, vrusk & dralasite with a few humans performing so well as officers in SW1 newly formed militias and space fleet took a hard look at the school. Eventually it morphed into a military institute over time. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
November 12, 2011 - 8:18pm | Well, I thought we had all talked about the vrusk shedding violence and embracing corporate/cooperative thinking. That's from memory, might be something Imperial Lord mentioned... |
November 13, 2011 - 7:18am | Well, I thought we had all talked about the vrusk shedding violence and embracing corporate/cooperative thinking. That's from memory, might be something Imperial Lord mentioned... Yeah I know that discussion went on, however you do have vrusk systems with militia (namely Kisk'-Kar, K'aken Kar, and Fromeltar) so they obviously got over there pacifism. Intelligent beings confronted with the non negotiable choice of fight or die more often then not choose fight since the will to live is a strong one. And does it make sense that the vrusk could be non involved in the UPF, space fleet and ground fleet and go about their business making money while the other three races shoulder fighting the sathar? Pacifism works in a perfect world but in an imperfect world it only works if other people are willing to stand on the wall for you. That is one reason the ammish, mennonites and the Church of the Brethren get a free pass- there small entities and over 90% of the American population hasn't staked out a moral position of against violence. However in the Frontier with the Vrusk representing 25%, or there about, of the population their pacifism is not going to get a free pass. I can accept pacifism as being part of the vrusk societal matrix in the time period between the fall of the hive system and first contact with other races as a reason rational decision by the race to not genocide itself. However, there is no doubt in my mind they got involved in the Frist Common Muster- the plain statement in the time line implies that. And once the reality of the sathar is rubbed in their noses they will make the rational decision to fight as well. I think vrusk pacifism should be veiwed as "I dont want to fight but if you force me to there will be war and I will apply all the energy that I normally apply to business to the business of killing you." This leads to the question, "Are the vrusk emotional beings?" If they are not they would make very dispationate killing machines. Approaching it logically and methodically. I think they would be very good at it whether or not they are emotional. Plus with the Vrusk Pistolero as an archetype there is room for some violence in this race. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 13, 2011 - 9:53am | I think it was a quote on the back of one of the Larry Niven "Known Space" books about the humans and war. It basically said that the reason the humans were pacifists at the time they encountered the Kzin was not that they couldn't fight, but that they were so darn good at it. You could go the same way with the vrusk. From their past they were exceptional warriors but they abandoned it to preserve the race and focused that energy into other areas. The latent talent is there (they are fast, dextrous, and intelligent) but it hasn't been needed. Give them a reason to unleash it though and watch out, in a generation or two they could be the most powerful fighters in the frontier. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
November 13, 2011 - 7:54pm | i was dipping back into the vrusk homewolrd history when i placed the vrusk art of war intellectual property into a group of vrusk "generals" who found they had no good place in the emerging vrusk corporate culture. they formed their own corporation to survive and to preserve the art. as the corporate society took greater and greater hold the provided their services less and less and preserved the art and history more. their primary function before the frontier and first contact was security and consulting on corporate take-overs. the vrusk are not the type to loose a technology or art the develop. even if it sits by the wayside for hundreds of years. -iggy |
November 14, 2011 - 6:01am | Vrusk Tzu, the art of war. In much the same way Sun Tzu is used for business and leadership theory. Vrusk military thinking is likely to emerge in corporate culture. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 24, 2011 - 9:58pm | Not that I have any problems with the other ideas (Keeping the initials is awesome...) I do like the idea of the Clarion Starknights Institute or the Nexus Colonial Institute for Spacemarines also... I am onboard with the Vrusk Military Institute being a rather unusual sequence of exploitations... but not sure about how a "Vrusk Sun Tzu" would measure up to the "Art of War" title... OTOH the title's contents are largely detailing social economics, resource management, and mental preparations for life-long survival... and talk little by volume percentage on anything actually pertaining to the physical parts of Martial Tactics and Strategic Combat... [iirc] ...anyone happen to have a copy for reference? @TerlObar THAT makes sense to me... I would totally argue for the Vrusk being THE most dangerous race by "biological design" of all the Core-4 and possibly beyond, they have biological advantages (rules be damned!!) that out-class every other race in the setting... only their mentality and social culture keeps them from being the true "bad-guys" and ... depending on who you ask ... not by much. Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 November 29, 2011 - 11:18pm | I was looking over the comments here and there is a presedence for Vrusk in having an organization for security and police forces. Ral'lk'Ka (RIK) - security and police functions. RIK personnel are contracted by the Commercial Council to act as Kraatar's police force. They are also hired by individual trade houses as security forces against terrorist attacks. With the recent increase in KLC activity, business for RIK is booming. |
November 30, 2011 - 6:17am | Nice find, and makes sense to me. I do not recall where, but there have been items that I read, and a module that I skimmed and mutilated that had support for the view, that Star-Law has certain jurisdictional problems operating in both Vrusk and Yazirian occupied space comfortably within the law. This has as such colored my view for many years as indicating that Vrusk and Yazirian legal-systems and law-enforcement are separate from the UP/Council politics and jurisdiction... without support to say one way or the other, I have assumed that Dralasite and Human dominated colonies are equally capable of such independence, but simply take a less active stance in enforcing jurisdictional boundaries. As I recall the entire scheme of the interactions of Vrusk corporate-law, the Vrusk colonial councils, and the greater UF/PC law enforcement, (from various sources I cannot cite [atm]) support the same conclusions given there. In "out-sourced" topic material I could recommend these links for ideas- Rising Sun Avatar Neuromancer Children of Men Blade Runner Armitage Corporate Warriors Cyber Storm Keyhole The Art of Corporate Warfare Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
November 30, 2011 - 6:33am | Note on Pacifism vs Conscientious Objection Pacifist are peace at any cost (over simplification but speaks to the flavor of it) it can be motivated by fear, and emotion as well as an intellectual choice. Pacifism makes peace the highest value. We must have peace! It takes on some sort of metaphysical value and must be adhered to. Conscientious Objection is more about thinking it over and deciding that killing is bad. This option is always about reasoned decision making. I know and understand the consequences of violent action and therefore I choose to not participate. This does not preclude the possibility of violent action because a thinking and reasoning entity that is faced this extreme circumstances can, based on those new circumstances choose a new course of action. The highest value here is not Peace but moral responsibility for ones actions. These are very fine distinctions that are oft overlooked but still they are important distinctions. My personal view is that I dont like pacifist but I respect conscientious objectors. I think it makes more sense that the vrusk would be Conscientious objectors. that they rejected the violence and devestation that occured under the hive system and made a consciencious decision to eschew violence. This is not to say they cannot be violent. They very simply choose peace and non violence. But faced with intollerable circumstances- like having their company's property stolen through espionage or that the only way to live peacably with an aggressor is to allow him to kill them and their company they will choose a violent course of action. Consequently, since it is a reasoned choice to be violent they make very lethal warriors. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
November 30, 2011 - 8:57am | Yes, there are many forms of Pacifism... you may be thinking of anarchist pacifism, which completely rejects the use of violence in any form for any purpose. Supporters of this philosophy are also often conscientious objectors, and by the same result of their moral considerations do not join in openly military pursuits. Leo Tolstoy and Mohandas Gandhi As an Ideological Theism a person or group holding to a pacifistic philosophy can become aggressive pacifistic zealots under certain conditions and pressures, and thus develop a universal fascist police mentality, where-by no OTHER entity in their witness is deemed enlightened enough to enforce peace, and peace MUST be upheld by all even if by force - or in extreme circumstance, by outright genocide. The Fascist form is more likely apropreate to the Vrusk, under the surface, especially as they have the elements that would make it possible to catagorize them as a Socialist Confederation of Fascist Hive Capitalists at one extreme or a Fascist Capitalisim Union of Socialist Hives at the other. As a simple word of concept the term pacifist - a person who believes in pacifism, or is opposed to war, or to violence of any kind - is still valid for the Vrusk, singular or as a whole. The term conscientious objector - A person, who for reasons of conscience, objects to serving in the military - is more related to personal choice of individuals, and may or may not be the choice of a single Vrusk at any given moment. Note that many, though not all, conscientious objectors are also opposed to paying taxes and voting or even government interaction of any kind, simply because of the connections these have to a military service. semantics aside, I understand your point that they are capable of war, but tend to make a moral and historically advised decision to refrain from the act... and I agree. Further, that this decision does not preclude them from the ability to conduct military engagements with ferocity, and make devastating use of the biological advantages they have over others... I also agree. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
