 September 22, 2011 - 11:49am | The UPF has learned much in the campaign against the sathar war machine. To that end UPF Admiral Bez'ill Nebulon has authorized construction of a Dominator class destroyer. Traditionally heavy ship weapons have been placed in front of ships and designated FF or forward-firing. LocKneed's new design places the FF laser cannon on a mounting system that allows heavy ship weapons to be placed on the side of a ship allowing pass-by attacks. The mount allows the weapon to swivel several degrees left/right and up/down increasing it's effecting targeting area.  |
 September 22, 2011 - 5:33pm | Check out my container cruiser dreadnaught --- http://starfrontiers.us/node/2306 It has the LC and DC on rotating gimbals for a 360º front-to-rear fields of fire. Since the ship is too big to get out of its own way, the guns track fore to aft to assist in targetting. I figure if you can go big enough in hull size, you can put the entire cannon into a giant battery weapon... |
September 22, 2011 - 5:41pm | 70 Crew? SS, you do a great job with ships. :-) |
 September 22, 2011 - 5:46pm | Is it Cannon that cannons are FF only weapons due to the size that they are mounted along the frame of the ship? |
September 22, 2011 - 5:47pm | Well, in all fairness it is a freight hauler...one crew per hull size --- doubled for the para-military design. Figure a pilot and one or two techs plus an engineer for each fighter, a dreadnaught pilot plus several co-pilots, a dreadnaught enginer and a few auxiliarry engineers, several astrogators, a dozen or so gunners, medic, and a small continegent of technicians that can double as security troops. Figure an unarmed version could have a skeleton crew of about 12-16. |
September 22, 2011 - 5:49pm | Is it Cannon that cannons are FF only weapons due to the size that they are mounted along the frame of the ship? Pretty much. The array is considered to run along the spine of the craft in question. Since a standard laser cannon occupies 40 cubic meters, it would be tough to cram it all in one small portion of the nose so I would say it runs along the main axis to permit space for other systems (sensors, LS, etc) along the skin. |
September 22, 2011 - 6:50pm | I often thought the FF weapons were a mechanic the creators wanted for a tactile board game. |
 September 22, 2011 - 7:40pm | When it comes to weapons being able to swivel the one thing to remember is that they are expensive. Turrets cost alot not only to build but to maintain. Next is mechanics. Like torpedoes some weapon systems are to complex put into swivel mounts. Recoil in space is a big one. Newton's laws and all cannons have big recoil and maybe the ships engines were they only way to compensate. So there are good reasons for forward firing only. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
September 22, 2011 - 7:57pm | Recoil in space is a big one. Newton's laws and all cannons have big recoil and maybe the ships engines were they only way to compensate. For a "mass driving" weapon, but beam weapons have no recoil. OTOH, KH torpedoes are omni-directional weapons. Fire away and they home in after launch. |
September 22, 2011 - 8:03pm | For a "mass driving" weapon, but beam weapons have no recoil. OTOH, KH torpedoes are omni-directional weapons. Fire away and they home in after launch.[/quote] Beam weapons have a recoil. In space with no friction any energy going one way pushes the opposite way. Torpedoes have their own motors and once released ignite and move themselves toward the target. In water torpedoes have to be launched to overcome friction. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 September 22, 2011 - 11:37pm | Love the turret weapons, but here is my opinion on the SFKH canon for heavy cannon weapons (Since all ship based weapons are a type of canon and a battery by definition is a group of cannons). Heavy Cannon are bow mounted because: 1. The rocket style configuration of SFKH Ships, 2. They are big so and take up a lot of compartment space respective to other kinds of weapons. 3. Why spend money on a turret mounting system when you can turn the ship towards the enemy*. With a turn being ten minutes long you have to assume that the ship can make a lot of small course corrections to aim its FF gun that doesnt consist of a full turn. The MR turn is both a game mechanic and represents a complete change of heading. It doesnt really matter if its fixed or on a turret you still only get the same number of shots per turn as allowed by the rules. The only real advantage is that you can fire in different directions each turn which can be accomplished by manuvering the ship too. Now of course comes the question, well big ships only have limited MR so having a rotating cannon would be better because you can turn the gun instead of the ship. I believe this limitation is where strategy comes in, the challenge of the game is to out manuver your opponent and out strategize your opponent with the challenge of keeping your guns on his ship. Even if the cannon can turn you still only get one chance to shoot it. I think that having a rotating cannon is fine and that it provides a marginal tactical advantage that does not overly upset the game mechanics. But I would make it more expensive and requiring more cubic meters to accomodate the turret machinery. If the mechanism malfunctions or breaks then your one shot wonder is out of commission and you have turn the ship to shoot anyway. For planetary or fleet bombardment a side mounted gun like Woot's would work just fine, you just have to be facing sideways to the target. I think there should be no penalty on left or right side as the ship could roll during the turn without changing heading. However I would limit roll manuvers to once per turn without MR penalty. I would also state that a roll manuver must be declared at the start of the movement phase and cannot be changed or aborted once it's called. |
September 22, 2011 - 11:43pm | I Don't agree that all beam weapons have recoil. Particle weapons which fire a beam which has mass most certainly would fit into the category of pushing the ship. A laser cannon on the other hand fires a cutting beam of light that has no significant mass and thus no recoil. |
September 23, 2011 - 1:52am | That's what I was getting at, a laser is focused light. To say it has recoil would be like saying flipping the landing lights on would work as a retro booster. |
September 23, 2011 - 9:00pm | I always thought my ceiling shook a little each time I flipped on my lights. Back in my playing days I had intended to install cannons on my ship but have them facing backwards as a special surprise for sneaky pirates. |
 September 24, 2011 - 12:38pm | A focused light beam has a transfer of force on the object the beam hits, but does not have as appreciable transfer on the emission source... Complexity says: the wave created by the potential energy of the particle, and the particle that creates a wave from it's potential velocity, are not the same object or effect, but combine as sub-parts of the whole to effect what we perceive as "light", and being both "nigh-quantum" and traveling at "nigh-infinity" causes the perturbances in our observation to make it difficult to explain "light" as only mechanical effect or chaotic force. ...or something like that ...still grossly simplified. a much simpler statement is; Directed beams of focused light have nigh-nil recoil, but can be directed to cause thermal and propulsion effects on other objects. The Ion-Drive is occasionally thought of as an energy drive. Confusion may have come from the Ion-Drive, which uses laser-type emiters to effect propulsion via promotion of mechanical effects of, and more specifically, directed discharge of action/reaction. Sail-beam powered Solar-sails are another special counter-intuitive... such as those in the designs made popular in Battletech Universe, which generate their own focus against their own sail. As well the Atomic Rockets of SF itself, which are really either; Supercharger Ion-Drives... Atomic Powered reaction rockets that are rated beyond currently achievable ratios, or (and most likely the reason for the pellets) based on the Orion Spacecraft's pulse projection system. In any case, the statement that light has no reaction effect is incorrect, and so is the statement that a laser has recoil... and the comparison of a laser to a ceiling light is just silly in it's thought... but now that you mention it, I might need to check for vibrations with a 0.000001pM calibrated surveyors level... I think my ceiling vibrates too... a lot of background vibration to filter out... I'll get back to you when my TI finishes calculating. Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
September 24, 2011 - 1:43pm | I think I will stick to the established concept that a laser cannon cuts into its target but does not produce any noticeable recoil. I will leave the complicated math and physics up to those who have way more time on their hands then I do. lol |
 September 24, 2011 - 5:28pm | Would a Rail Gun have any recoil effect and why? shorter answers prefered. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 24, 2011 - 5:59pm | @AZ_GAMER I agree... just supplying the theory, the math supports the rules effectively enough... but I don't want to check what they say so I'll just 'baa' like a good sheep on this one... :D Yeah realistically, the internal explosions and structural integrity reductions makes beams a silent killer... win the battle and explode from decompression in mid-cheer... Surface impacts are easier to count and account for, hidden internals get ya every time. I have watched a couple Future History of War documentaries, some are fluffy some are pretty good. What i see rarely discussed in that vein, and isn't even reflected in a rules set I know of, is the importance of knowing the deck layout of the opposing ship... being able to strike a beam or high-velocity point-piercing-projectile across a vital stack of levels can run a ship into the vacuum equivalent of the titanic quickly, not to mention vac-the-crew instantly with no safety feature able to react quick enough. If the superior intelligence is first to fire, no return fire... game over. I frequently find it funny tho' that the star frontiers system tries to handle 'quick and exciting' tactical engagements... using mostly strategic scale frameworks... to represent support scale ships... in 10min turns... something seems a little schizo there to me. I would appreciate a rules set that focuses back on the character level of privateers, scouts, patrol skiffs and workpods... using the standard 6 seconds... and scales UP from there, rather than trying to work it the other way 'round. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
September 24, 2011 - 6:11pm | In a 0-G stellar free-fall vacume a magnetically accelerated projectile should have more recoil than a laser, but still less than an explosive chemical-reaction... again for the purpose of the rules set I think I would say... effectively no recoil... but a character in free-fall on a ship (or even in an EVA-suit) firing a shoulder mounted rail-gun, will probably feel a kick of some kind... not the same kind that a bazooka or pistol gives... but something should be felt. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
September 24, 2011 - 6:17pm |  I am not doing the math on that one either... :Dmass of the object to the mass of the gun, the object being magnetically moved down the rail... the rail is conversely being moved back along the object... how much? mass and velocity of the bullet, to the mass of the gun... the gun does not move nearly as much as the bullet... still don't think i trust firing one off my shoulder tho'... but the ship should be able to fire with negligible effect. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
September 24, 2011 - 6:19pm | Since most rail runs are electromgnetically propelled projectiles which have mass they may exhibit some kind of recoil or push back. However, unless we are talking about mass drivers propelling large projectiles, a small projectile may not have a significant impact on the firing ship. The gun itself probably would be equipped with a recoil dampener that would handle any feed back. |
September 24, 2011 - 6:53pm | That all makes sense to me. I would call the Torpedoes a dropped-seeker, because it makes more aesthetic sense than calling a self-guided missile a Torpedo... Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
September 24, 2011 - 10:10pm | Getting off topic, but I can't hold this one back any longer. Apologies in advance. That ship graphic in the OP looks like something one might find in an adult book store. Okay, it's out of my system. Continue... |
September 26, 2011 - 11:33pm | [looks at the warshak test]  ... a dog dude! so it does.  Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 October 8, 2011 - 12:49pm | You all have laser pointers right? Do you feel any kick when you switch them on? Thought not. Don't hear any zap either for that matter. This is the one thing about SF that totally off, to call lasers "blasters" is wrong. The game Heavy Gear uses lasers as a sniper weapons as they have no recoil, near to no travel time, are silent and can be in an invisable spectrum of light like IR or UV. Now think of them scaled up and as a ship mounted weapon. If you really want the "pewpew" kind of lasers companies can always have them made to have a sound effect so the user can know it's being fired, but in space that's kind of pointless. As for laser cannons, I've always have as many as a ship can carry. So yeah I put like 4 of them in the bow of the battleships along with the disruptor cannon. You should see how many laser batteries the battleships have. I have a tendency to use the laser cannons as a primary anti-ship weapon and try to use the laser batteries as secondary anti-fighter/assault scout weapons. So I have frigates line up and concentrate fire. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
October 8, 2011 - 12:03pm | I'm quick to replace the projectile launchers with energy weapons as well. Three reasons for that: 1> greater range 2> you don't run out of shots 3> no MPO restrictions so you get that extra defensive shot in. While I'm a big fan of the LB, I usually make the exception to retain the AR on the smaller craft  |
October 8, 2011 - 9:49pm | I love the "pewpew"! I've always considered the noise of lasers as coming from the machinery of the weapon itself rather than the “discharged” light. A tremendous amount of energy would be needed to generate a destructive beam of light. I remember working in the factory operating electromagnetic spot welders. There would be the “clunk” of the hydraulic press bringing the electrodes together on the metal then a deep “urmph” sound as the electricity flowed through. So to me the sounds would have been either the energy or the dissipating heat from the energy. Though I too have always seen the laser rifle as the perfect sniper’s weapon. I imagine a one could be designed to be more silent. But then again, from such a long range, I guess it could stand to make a little noise. Btw, one (or at least I) can feel the… presence?... of laser light. It is very subtle and would most likely be missed if it’s presence wasn’t known. I know a doctor who uses cold lasers to administer treatments (oils, minerals, etc.) through the skin. He has done so on me and I could certainly feel that without trying too hard. But at work sometimes I have to use a hand scanner and I can feel that when directed at my palm. Though I must confess that I did get teased a lot in High School for my sensitive skin. |
October 9, 2011 - 3:51am | When I finally started to check the new BSG out of the library and watch it season by season, I absolutely loved the fact that space combat was silent when viewed from outside a ship. There would be these scenes where a base ship showed up and Galactica would turn side ways to protect the fleet and you'd see all these small double barrel guns on the Galactica come on line and train on the base ship and begin to fire projectiles, not lasers. Such a huge swarm of them being exchanged between the two ships; the violence of the shooting (and it seemed violent due to the thickness of the shooting) was contrasted by the silence or the low drum music. I wonder about the difference between a laser pointer and a laser that will do considerably more than amuse a cat, is it not going to be a change in order of magnitude? How will a laser that would be sufficient to be destructive interact with air? Will it excite the air molecules? Will that effect create some sound? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 9, 2011 - 4:42pm | In an atmosphere the laser may make a mechanical click, buzz, or humm from the mechanisms working but would be a very quiet weapon. In space there would be no sounds at all as there is no atmosphere for the sound waves to travel through. Any way, besides in the movies (which need sound for excitement factor), who cares what the weapon sounds like as long as you point it at the target, pull the trigger, and bad things happen to the bad guy on the other end. |
October 10, 2011 - 4:38pm | Well maybe a sufficently high powered laser might make a slight hissing noise when you think of the water vapor in an atmosphere in the laser's path. But I'd think the laser beam is moving so fast no one would notice it. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
October 10, 2011 - 6:05pm | Just like a long distance projectile, you'd be dead before hearing the report anyways  |
