 July 4, 2011 - 1:08pm | Lower Caste Sathar are strictly grunts - maybe some experienced survivors are promoted to Corporal. Of course, in Sathar society the lower caste's place in the military is identical to its place outside the military, Totally expendable. Middle Caste Sathar are the senior noncoms and officers except the Captaincy and Admiralty. All starship Captains, Generals, and Admirals are Upper Caste Sathar. The Middle Caste are toadies, but they have a great deal of pride due to their programming, brutalization, training, religion and culture. Service to the Empire is very much "in their blood" and they serve proudly until death. The Upper Caste Sathar give the Middle Caste many privileges and opportunities. They do their best to keep the Middle Castes happy, which only increases their already fantatical loyalty. Thus, the Middle Castes get the Imperial indocrinations from the same brainwashing and drugs as the Lower Castes, but then they get it from a whole ADDITIONAL direction in terms of the pride that they feel for their status within the Empire! The Upper Caste does an all out assault on their minds (positive and negative forces in play) to assure their loyalty. They are totally locked in. But, of course, the Middle Castes have a "glass ceiling" which they completely accept as "the way it is". There are plenty of Middle Caste First Officers in the Sathar Fleet, for example - but never a Captain, and there never will be. But again, this is compensated by the high status that a Sathar gets in society for even being the lowest crewmember on a Sathar vessel! (Every single crewmember on a Sathar ship is at least Middle Caste - these hugely expensive tools of the Empire are not to be entrusted to Lower Caste morons!) Once again this is mirrored in the civilian sector. Middle Caste Senior Researcher? Sure - after many years of dedicated work. But Middle Caste Research Director? NEVER. Middle Caste Labor Overseer? - always. Middle Caste member of the Supreme Industrial Council? Not even close. This is, of course, totally accepted without question by all Sathar that survive Processing. The vast vast majority of Middle and Upper Caste Sathar have no problem with Processing. I would imagine that the Upper and Middle Castes maintain the old traditions and customs of the Sathar culture prior to the [Unification by the SuperComputer OR the revolt from klikk servitude] Therefore, many of the natural mating rituals and family units and stuff like that would probably be preserved in at least some form for the Upper and Middle castes. I don't think an Upper or Middle Caste Sathar, for example, would want to be found dead in a Lower Caste Processing Center, unless he was dropping the Lower Caste Larvals into the chemical vats (Middle Caste work only!). They have special schools, medicinal and biomechanical enhancements, high-speed weapons and equipment all waiting for them in their chosen role for the State. Upper Caste Sathar even have something of a choice (imagine that!!) when it comes to the paths that their lives take. In other words, the Sathar are beings that, to a great extent, make a FREE CHOICE (at least on the Middle and Upper Caste levels) to behave in their ruthless and murderous manner. The "system" serves to solidify and reinforce this free choice. There are, essentially, two different Sathar species. There are the Lower Castes, and everyone else. The Lower Castes live in a miserable drugged-out, brain washed dream world. The Middle and Upper Castes are the "real" Sathar. They have remained essentially the same since before the Unification. Rebellion among the Middle Caste is prevented in many ways. First of all, Sathar are naturally submissive and fit into their role. Culture is a very powerful force here. Tradition is another. Religion is another loyalty-engendering force. Then you have the privledges, honors, and benefits that the Upper Caste maintains for the Middle. The [SuperComputer OR the AI] keeps the Upper Caste honest - it assures that all of the goodies are delivered to the Middle Caste. If all of that stuff fails then you have the drugs, brain washing and propaganda. Any remnant of rebelliousness after all of that is hunted down and killed by the secret police. Think of a giant Nazi-like State. During the Nazi period in Germany there was a VERY compliant middle class who served the State. Take that and project it out massively and you get the Sathar Empire. Major points here 1. sathar society is brutal, with processing after birth that involves drugged brainwashing and conditioning with a high mortality rate for the lower caste and a small mortality rate for the middle caste. The mortality of the young is seen as a good thing to keep the "mass" in check. 2. The end result is a compliant war machine dedicated to obeying the sathar leadership. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 4, 2011 - 2:33pm | Now looking at the AD canon material: http://www.starfrontiers.us/node/5514 I'd like to focus on a few pointsZ: 1. the tattoos/natural markings and the cadre theory. The natural markings only occur in upper caste sathar and part of sathar processing involves injections that ensure that middle and lower caste sathar dont develop any markings- every upper caste sathar has a cadre of middle and lower cast sathar that obeys it and all are tattooed with the upper caste's markings to identify it as belonging to him/her. This upper caste cadre leader has total control of life and death over its cadre 2. the two paragraphs that fall under Attitude both sound like 1950's news reel propaganda and IMO should be treated as such. They first say attack a sathar on sight and then say avoid attacking a sathar agent?!? But if those paragraphs were the script of a holovid propaganda short they make sense. Even look at the statements about over throwing governments, terrorizing citizens and disrupting trade. Disrupting trade comment is in there because the mega corps want it in there. The government overthrow is in there because the governments want it in there. the terrorizing citizens is in there to scare the populace and motivate them to act on this material. Also in conjunction with the proposed caste system I think that ranges for sathar stats should be given based on caste ie the upper caste will be smarter with possible higher PER/LDR scores while lower caste brutes will have higher STR/STA and slightly higher DEX/RS. but I would propose a chart with a range that the stats could fall in and that a referee would simply pick the actual stat that he wanted for the encounter. The whole conditioning process produces fairly typical results in a lower caste sathar STR/STA= 50-80 INT/LOG= 20-40 DEX/RS= 40-70 PER/LDR= 20-30 In middle caste sathar STR/STA= 30-60 INT/LOG= 40-60 DEX/RS= 30-60 PER/LDR= 30-50 In upper caste sathar STR/STA= 30-50 INT/LOG= 40-80 DEX/RS= 40-60 PER/LDR= 40-60 NOTE: a different clan might reverse the STR/STA and DEX/RS ability conditioning for its lower caste brutes preferring agility over brute strength in their drones. NOTE: the PER/LDR ability pair is for interaction with other sathar not the Frontier races; any interaction with a member of the other races that is fully aware of who and what the sathar is should carry a negative modifier to ability rolls involving the PER/LDR roll though I dont really see why a sathar would try to reason with them when they could just use the hyptnosis ability. RE: hyptnosis and caste: should caste influence the ability to use this racial ability? my thinking is that the book description of the ability is that of the middle caste sathar and that the LOG save roll is modified with a 10% bonus against lower caste and penalized by 10% against upper caste. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 4, 2011 - 6:11pm | Back to the cadre/tattoo issue: on a war ship the caption is upper caste and as ImpLord described the crew and under officers are middle caste. All bear the cadre markings of the captain. Deep in a hold much like the holds of slave ships that plied the Atlantic, is a packed group of lower than caste sathar that can be let out for ground combat or a boarding action. Each warship captain crews and maintains his ship for the state/clan and treats it like personal property though the resources to build it came from the state. His crew and ground troops represent his cadre. EDIT: that's captain! Damn you autocorrect. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 5, 2011 - 6:04am | It suddenly occured to me that if you use my klikk connection ideas you can explain the propensity to suicide as developing in the war with the klikk; they'd perfer to die then be taken and forced to divulge information to the klikk or become slaves to them again. the suicide programming began 900 years ago during the conflict with the klikk but has pretty much become hard wired into them now after all this time and if it isn't hardwired the programming that goes on ensures it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 July 6, 2011 - 12:47pm | Great stuff as always, Jedion. My single issue with you here would be the fact that Sathar boarding parties would be Lower Caste. When you think about it, the role of a boarding party member can be quite complicated with all of the equipment and possibly technical missions (exploration, salvage, etc.) and such. I don't think that the Sathar would let any Lower Castes even close the their precious Fleet. Also, I am sure some lower ranking officers are Upper Caste Sathar as well, working their way up the ranks through special paths marked out for them - much like a princeling in one of the medieval or feudal Chinese militaries. |
July 6, 2011 - 7:33pm | Great stuff as always, Jedion. My single issue with you here would be the fact that Sathar boarding parties would be Lower Caste. When you think about it, the role of a boarding party member can be quite complicated with all of the equipment and possibly technical missions (exploration, salvage, etc.) and such. I don't think that the Sathar would let any Lower Castes even close the their precious Fleet. Also, I am sure some lower ranking officers are Upper Caste Sathar as well, working their way up the ranks through special paths marked out for them - much like a princeling in one of the medieval or feudal Chinese militaries. I'm not for using the lower caste as crew just storage thats taken out and thrown into the meat grinder with a couple of middle caste under officers riding herd on them. In fact their quarters would lock from the outside. I see the sathar as keeping them on ship just for those times they need to land troops or force a bording action I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 6, 2011 - 9:22pm | Well I was just thinking that a boarding party would require sophisticated training that the Lower Caste Sathar could not really handle. It's not like there are not plenty of Middle Caste Sathar. There are millions. There's more where that came from. |
July 7, 2011 - 6:52pm | So we're talking Keystone cops level of stupidity for the 3rd caste. Not what I would have expected but workable. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 7, 2011 - 8:53pm | Maybe not quite keystone cops, but pretty close to it. After all, they have no real education, other than indoctrination. Educating large numbers of Lower Caste Sathar is probably seen by the other Castes as a threat to their power. Of course, there are whole units of Middle Caste Sathar that can handle themselves. They also get better support and equipment, etc. etc. |
July 8, 2011 - 3:34am | So we should describe three levels of attack/tactics/strategy to accompany the 3 castes. Lower caste is your classic swarm tactic. Huge numbers seeking to overwhelm by weight of numbers. Middle will have better equipment and seek to use it to best effect. Upper caste should have the best equipment on par with the klikk tank or resources on par with that. These resources will no doubt include a host of the other sathar. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 8, 2011 - 6:04pm | I think what you say is solid in an overall sense. There may be some Lower Castes who manage to survive and become more veteran in terms of surviving battles. All troops eventually get better, if they live. I think allowing some Lower Caste advancement is reasonable. But nothing in any large numbers, certainly. And with Middle Caste officers to boss them around, the Sathar can expect a reasonable result from them. Middle Caste soldiers are the real deal. Trained, supported, with full ranks, leadership, tactics, oeprations, strategy - the works. Upper Caste Sathar - I would be surprised if they get encountered much at all. They are probably back on the home worlds, running the Empire. I don't really see them as being "boss" type characters, either - although they could be to spice up the campaign. Perhaps an ancient old Sathar in a remote base who has pumped all of the local cybernetics into himself to keep him alive? Or simply a voluntarily souped-up Cybot? In any case, an encounter with an Upper Caste Sathar is going to be a serious situation for the PCs. Such top citizens of the Sathar Empire are no doubt closely guarded by Lower and Middle Caste guards, robots, and other defenses. It's not like they are going to be wandering around downtown getting ice cream or space butter. |
July 9, 2011 - 5:51am | I agree upper caste sathar should be the culmination. Of the adventure/campaign and the PCs should not be too fresh when they meet him/it.
EDIT:Wondering if each cadre leader/upper caste sathar has a symbol that denotes his cadre? Reason why this might be important is that in a long running campaign the PCs could begin to realize their dealing with an organized sathar plot by finding the tattoo on some sathar and a symbol corresponding mark on ships etc. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 July 9, 2011 - 6:50pm | Great read guys. I hope to see "The Sathar" coming to SFman soon! In fact (Imp will shoot me), what if you had players each play a sathar character.... when it dies ( and it should ) you then switch to a core four race. PvP is sometimes hard to run but might be fun to run at a Con for 4-6 hours. |
August 12, 2011 - 5:36am | Thinking about the castes and clans this morning and just want to jot ideas: There is one upper caste in charge of a clan; within his clan are other upper castes, middle castes, and lower castes. clan politics means that the other upper castes believe they could do as good a job as the top dog and feel they aught to be in charge. Most clan leaders subscribe to the addage: "Keep two pupils on your enemies and 4 pupils on your clan" One method by which a clan leader keeps his clan in line is the threat of a lobotomy and demotion to lower caste cannon fodder. This punishment is almost never used on the middle caste as they are the worker bees of the clan the phsycology of the caste does not make it prone to rebellion. However, the natural ambition of upper caste sathar make them a boon and a bane to the clan leader: their intelligence, ambition and deviousness make them an asset in the ebb and flow of clan competition and war. Yet those same features mean they must be kept under wraps lest they think they could replace the leader. Sometimes, when an upper caste sathar fails in a mission, a clan leader will use lobotomization not just to punish the failure but as a pointed reminder to the rest of the upper caste. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 24, 2011 - 4:33pm | In past thread elsewhere we talked about the insides of a Sathar ship. I envision the hold that holds the lower caste horde troopers to be a slime pit. The naked Sathar are packed in tight like the worms they are and spend their time slithering over each other. Pump the nutrient fluids on top and extract the waste fluids on the bottom. Hell to the Core 4 view of things but natural to the primitive psychology of a lower caste Sathar. By the way, I'm loving the views on the Sathar here. Great foundation by Imperial Lord and great structure added by Jedion. I hope to have all of this project read by the end of Thanksgiving day. -iggy |
November 29, 2011 - 8:17pm | @iggy, I think in such a situation the troops would be in some type of hibernation. Just before they get dropped on a world (or station) they are shocked with electricity and nethra radiation, (gets them ready for combat). Makes 'em crazy! The radiation last d100 hours, when it wears off all troop stats are at 1/2. |
November 29, 2011 - 8:25pm | @iggy, I think in such a situation the troops would be in some type of hibernation. Just before they get dropped on a world (or station) they are shocked with electricity and nethra radiation, (gets them ready for combat). Makes 'em crazy! The radiation last d100 hours, when it wears off all troop stats are at 1/2. As far as i can tell the choice as to whether the lower caste worms are in hibernation or a locked slime pit boilds down to what experiences you want the PCs to have while going deck to deck in a sathar ship. Both options could even be vallid depending on sathar clan. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 3, 2011 - 12:22am | A human and yazirian are patrolling the smoking remains of a Sathar base when they come across a bland building with door going down like a storm cellar. Their instruments tell them that there is a horde of Sathar life forms inside. The yazirian soldier readies himself to charge into the room beyond with his auto rifle blazing when his human companion opens the door. The human yanks the door open and the yazirian charges! A split second before the yazirian is committed to diving into a slim pit of naked packed sathar he grabs hold of the door frame and stops himself. He quickly shoulders his rifle and rips the incendiary grenades from his partners harness, tosses them in, and slams the door. He looks the humans straight in the eyes and says, "No way in the world would I fight in there." To which the human replies, "Your right! I think we got a couple dozen incendiaries in the APC. Let's go get 'em." -iggy |
December 5, 2011 - 4:32pm | Perfect! Gives this races that stomach turning imagery. |
January 16, 2012 - 9:03pm | New thought on the caste system and the 900 year stagnation period where the sathar did not dignificantly improve their tech base between the first time they attacked volturnus and the second time. The upper caste leaders dont trust the middle or technitian caste. Lots of controls on them and an atmosphere of distrust and purging of technitians that step out of the proscibed lines laid down for them. This could serve to explain the stagnation or at least a part of it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 30, 2012 - 10:02am | Lower and middle caste are processed with bio-genic compounds as juveniles that prevent their marking from emerging. they then they get tattooed copies of their upper caste leader's markings lower caste just get head marking and if one should survive awhile they get one segment marked Middle caste get head and one segment tattooed and as they advance they recieve progressively more segments tattooed the upper caste sathar have marking over their whole body. see photobucket albumn with picture of this process: http://s237.photobucket.com/albums/ff83/jedion357/Sathar/ Book says they are yellow and brown with pink bellies so I was leaning toward redish to crimson colored markings as natural but the tattooes are done in different colors are a sign of the caste. Perhaps a dark brown for lower caste and pink to light red for middle caste. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 30, 2012 - 11:39am | Like the ideas about the drawings. New thought on the caste system and the 900 year stagnation period where the sathar did not dignificantly improve their tech base between the first time they attacked volturnus and the second time.
The upper caste leaders dont trust the middle or technitian caste. Lots of controls on them and an atmosphere of distrust and purging of technitians that step out of the proscibed lines laid down for them. This could serve to explain the stagnation or at least a part of it. Perhaps the stagnation could be explained by an event that effected the sathar as a whole. They went into a several hundred year suspended animation or maybe a time dialect. This would explain the apparent lack of technological advances. |
November 8, 2012 - 10:01am | Was thinking about the sathar brain running the obelisk on Volturnis and that if the sathar did this why not have a disembodied brain run a ship? It would be a savings on crew in one respect- the upper caste sathar in charge of the ship just orders it to go here, shoot that and do this other thing. More of the crew could be dedicated techs for repair and or fighters. In fact i can see the sathar having yet another "caste" the "tube caste" that are bread for just this purpose. With a life span in the hundreds of years allowing for one to run an obelisk without the worms having to come back too often. These worms are specially conditioned and form a fail safe for the ships to prevent capture (clan Y did not do this, obviously or you can rewrite the Beyond the Frontier campaign to account for this idea. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
