 April 3, 2011 - 9:40pm | plans are a foot to do a re-imagining of Disney's the Black Hole http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/rorschachsrants/news/?a=14767 http://www.chud.com/22470/the-black-hole-remake-to-be-hard-scifi/ while the movie didn't suck as bad as the recent John Carter of mars movie; it was not good. Since it seems that they will make a different movie with the science about black holes updated and plan a harder approach to it this could be a good thing. Question: Would run a "Black Hole" module in SF? How would you update/ re-imagine it? in case you missed the original heres the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Hole I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 April 13, 2011 - 10:45pm | Initial stand off between AMEE and MA-X on the UPFS Antidae |
 April 13, 2011 - 10:50pm | Well, I didn't see that coming! Hey, a female zombie-cyborg! Hmmm... I wonder if I can come up with something... Shell, shell, shell...Synthetic-Humanoid Enviroment.... ah, I got nothin'. |
April 13, 2011 - 10:55pm | could be McCrae's Mom inside MAX, or a sister |
April 13, 2011 - 10:58pm | I could do MA-X as a male, but thats been done already and I was reaching for something robotic, show a "personality", and invokes a kind of recognition from the audience. So that when people look at it they say...oooooh thats Maximillian, neat twist on the story. |
April 13, 2011 - 11:05pm | Either way. Hey what about a twin sister...oh, maybe not. |
April 13, 2011 - 11:13pm | Perhaps MA-X should be the "next step" kind of Robot...similar to the drones who crew the ship, but a bit more cruel. If the robot is a prison for the humanoid inside, then it should appear to be twisted and "uncomfortable". What about a more neutral body, that does not reveal the gender of the occupant. If you go with the female MA-X, perhaps she tears off the face-plate, to try to re-connect with Kate. Hmmm?! |
April 13, 2011 - 11:44pm | I am kind of intrigued by the female MA-X concept... not so much a robot with a feminine figure, but that the human soul inside is female... y'know... "hades hath no fury..." I think if her motives are clarified (who is she loyal to, who does she hate, who does she love, why would she leave Rhinehardt to die) it could work. In the original story, Max's motives are a mystery to me... he just seems to be a big, angry robot. Max kills Dr Durant, but it seems unclear why... especially since it appeared Rhinehardt was attempting to keep the robot in check... so, he's a big, disobedient, angry robot. Maybe the female MA-X(Kate's Mom version) senses Kate's emotional distress in the presence of Dr Durant...the maternal instinct takes over and...!? I know that may be stretching it a bit, but maybe if Kate and Alex are arguing about staying/leaving (MA-X is monitoring the exchange), Dr Durant forcibly grabs Kate by the shoulders and shakes her..."Kate, what do you mean you're breaking up with me, going back to your ex-husband, and returning to Earth!?" |
 April 14, 2011 - 12:38pm | M.A. < it should be someones mother... I was putting the Yazirian/PGC friendly mutual-expansion/artificial economic cold-war back into this corner of the Vast,, with the over-all mission backgrounds of both ships being under direct or indirect charter to Athor exploration agencies. Psychic elements were being tied to adherents of 'The Family of One' religiosity, some of the core 'family connections' tied into Yazirianocentric roles. The only races that are dependent on environmental plausability, and situational cohesiveness, as I see it, are Human and Yazirian. Both need to share 'screen-time' and the latter need subtile boosts to their integral presence. I am assuming that battling the natural shift to Humanocentric, from Yazirianocentric, views isn't as necessary for the SF-fans. I think most would be able to 'stradle-world-views' between the two comfortably, as long as it is comfortably shown, since it is a well established and beloved core-four race. Vrusk and Dralasite centric stories, I'd like to tackle also, but not here. Two reasons for handeling psychic with care and shifting it to the Yaz. The first being to tie the psychic abilities into a form that is established (lightly) in SF canon. Second being to allow someone who wants to 'down-play' the use, to do so easily, and still have something to work with. Not to suggest that any creative effort is easy, but making a module has to bounce back and forth between linear and non-linear extremes, or the final result either has a 'no-purpose-direction-plot' or feels like 'a-walk-the-dog-scenario', to the players/gm. The quickness with which you guys toss out the same elements I have been looking at, makes me wonder if it is all too transperent, or just that likely to extend in these directions.... I like the new colors, a .PDF doesn't need to worry about the cost of High-Color Glossy print, and if desired to be printed by an end-user, can still be printed in ink-saving grey-scale, selectivly even. Why not put some full-color into the key images, character bios, pull-outs, and the section/chapter dividers? Line-art is good too, but it dosn't need to be limited with the old-module artistic publishing limits, just to keep the old-style internal composition. Disney should tell Pixar, to hire you if they want the movie contract.  Checked your role-call with mine... Captain Han Netherland, former Prenglar 'Star Gaurd' Milita.... lost his military commission... went into a privateer commission with Yazirian Exploration Surveyors/Pan-Galactic Corporation conglomerate to retain a small private ship, the Halflinger's Trigger.... Dr. Jai'n Fateway... (pause for the moans) ...Yazerian bilogical environment scientist from Hargut, Family Of One adherent, ESP-sensitive(she has wierd dreams and intuitions, no big deal.)... (pause for the mumbles) ... (hmmm... ex-husband.... well they did it in the planet of the apes remake... <shrugs> not really what I intended, but what do I care, if beastiality doesn't offend anyone at the gaming table, let 'em do it...) Names and back-stories have been slightly altered, in my files. I'll check the back stories for comparison more thoroughly, I may have forgotten a few items. Looks like I have everyone, plus a couple new faces, represented properly so far. Good stuff, shell! have to think about the wormhole, it shifts it away from the 'Ominous Looming Astronomical Certainty of Death, Entropy, and Insignificance' element..... M.A.-X S.C.H.E.L/L: Mission Android Mk-10 / Suit Cybernetic Human Extension 50/50 is now the running designation.... Somones mother, preferably a PC I think, but it could be Cpt. Netherland if no PC is avaliable, wouldn't be a Yaz and still keep the form  ...Definatly a love triangle situation... Dr. Rein Hanshardt's obsesion with someones mother (medical cybernetics), their father(astrophysics engineer) was made a regular drone, and launched out in one of the first probes that didn't return... Dr. in medical cybernetics... maybe it is origionally designed to be a Medical Assistant, and thier is a play on the phycological horror/perversion between, the life-giving feminine intent, and the death-bringing masculine outer shell..... and the reason she was put in the suit by Dr. Hanshardt was in an attempt to save her from his own mistake. Some of the Mr. Freeze pathos, where he has to keep her alive in hope of one day saving her fully, but doing so would mean he has to face his angels judgment for his crimes.... so he hesitates, wandering around on a serelict ship, stuck in his logic loops, and developing a bi-polar egomanical depression. Totally unrelated, I am working some 3d's of the port-loren and port-royal maps from the library, as a relaxation project... if anyones interested, I have a couple rocketpunk shorts I am filling out... a handfull SF modules waiting assembly that had me looking this way in the first place, and a spelljammer multi-sphere setting i've been slowly working on for a few years, also. Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
April 14, 2011 - 12:41pm | Oh... and sorry 'bout the brain-damage, it was the worst one in the list, there were better atempts. Reaction attitudes to story elements was what I was looking at more, so I didn't notice the brain-drain effect as much.... but yeah, stupid humor, in the purest form, it was. pshha! canadian comedy, it's all us fault!  Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 April 14, 2011 - 11:54am | SHEL: Syenthetic Humaniod Eleletronic Lifeform -iggy |
April 14, 2011 - 3:24pm | A few years back, I wrote up a "Black Hole" adventure for my group. Would anyone be interested in reading what I have? I wrote it to be a bit darker than the movie, however, I did not include the Heaven/Hell subtexts... just a "ticking-time-bomb/countdown" adventure, with a few character-driven subplots. |
April 14, 2011 - 4:53pm | Yes I would like to read your adventure, that would be cool. |
April 15, 2011 - 10:46am | SHEL: Syenthetic Humaniod Eleletronic Lifeform Iggy Rocks! I'd be interested in reading shells adventure I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 15, 2011 - 1:22pm | I am not! I was of the understanding that we were talking about the robot character for the module and not you as the poster.  -iggy |
April 16, 2011 - 12:00pm | I'm sorry... I was just being lame. No problem, good sir! |
April 16, 2011 - 1:47pm | M.A.-X S.C.H.E.L/L: Mission Android Mk-10 / Synthetic Cybernetic Human Extension 50/50 ? Instead of suit? kinda liked the idea of putting suit in there, and having it be a emergancey medical assitance suit of some sort, so the doctor need not scrub-up between surgeries and has all kinds of huds and equipment built in. effectivly making her a walking emergancy operation room.... or one Bad-@ $ $mf assassin... the 50/50 (L/L) referes to a 50%/50% in the cybernetic human extension... Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 April 16, 2011 - 2:35pm | I don't think I like the changes you make to Max. What I'd rather do is go back to the less humanoid looking version Harlan Ellison originally designed for Max and the sentery robots. If I could still find picts of the concept art, originally Maximillian had no legs. He was a hovering torso with 6 or 8 multi-jointed arms. He wasn't even red at first, more of a dark grey. I'll have to try and recreate his original look from memory some day. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
April 16, 2011 - 3:57pm | I know, I've been trying to find good images of those sentry bots too... I have found one picture (side view) of the guns from the movie.... Prety kewl looking, definitely not a Vrusk weapon, I could see it as a Madderly Arms - Personal Defense Weapon, and possibly influenced by a Sathar design, prominatly used during the uprisings and now a standard civil security issue side arm on Kdkit. Other than that, only a few disassembled suits from the movie. Max, of course, I have several pictures of... nope not a single profile view in the bunch. The movie-remake that was mentioned back at the begining would, if it is ever released, seems to me to be the way it would be rewritten for a movie format.... the humanocentric, non-star-frontiers-themed, remake discussed here.... call that an educated guess, I could be wrong.... course it might never reach a final released either.... since the origional did so poorly. I'd be really suprised if they did a remake and included Yazerians, Vrusk, and Dralasites.... and they wern't made out to be the monsters... Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
April 16, 2011 - 4:28pm | Maximillian is one of those iconic characters that does kind of define The Black Hole, just like VINCent and BOB. I guess if we tinker too much with the icons, then maybe it won't be the same. So, when is The Black Hole no longer The Black Hole? Are we straying from the original in an effort to not cross any intellectual property lines? If we as gamers are kicking around adventure ideas, I'm pretty sure Disney won't fuss much. If we try to label it as our own intellectual property, then I'm sure we'd get into trouble... so here is the question, are we doing this as a tribute? A parody? A re-imagining? In my old FUZION Black Hole adventure, I kept the Icons, however I did redesign them. I kept most of the characters, but gave them different personalities and tailored them to fit better with my players. I followed the "A" storyline: "A United States scoutship discovers a 20 year old derilict in space, at the edge of a monstrous black hole", this was essential to the game being The Black Hole. The Cygnus mystery was the "B" storyline: "Mad Scientist enslaves his crew through force and mind control", which I set up, so the PC's could discover the truth, but whether or not the chose to get involved was their choice, and not essential to the game... they could just mind their manners, fix their ship and leave... Remember Rhinehardt originally wanted Alex to record the Cygnus' departure, not join him. The "C" storyline was the conflict onboard the Cygnus. The Palimino crew learns the truth about the Cygnus crew, and chooses to intervene, this is complicated by Alex wanting to stay aboard, and Kate not willing to leave him behind. In setting up the conflict, I had to "manipulate" the players into action. This was accomplished by having Rhinehardt's Sentry Robots confiscate the Palimino! I decided the Probe Ship is damaged when it arrives on the Cygnus, important data is lost, and Rhinehardt needs the Palimino to act as a replacement. The Palimino crew of course, freaks! They refuse to crew for Rhinehardt, so Rhinehardt sends in the Sentry Robots! Violia! Instant motivation! Everyone fights, no one quits! In the end, It retained the essence of the original storylines... but it wasn't the Black Hole. The PCs' primary goal was to get the heck out of the death trap thatthey found themselves in...they had to accomplish their goal, play out character reactions, and keep their humanity(especially when I turned it into a creepy zombie fight with the Rhinehardt-controlled humanoid crew!)... it was no longer the Disney story, it was ours. |
April 16, 2011 - 6:30pm | The Cygnus mystery was the "B" storyline: "Mad Scientist enslaves his crew through force and mind control", which I set up, so the PC's could discover the truth, but whether or not the chose to get involved was their choice, and not essential to the game... they could just mind their manners, fix their ship and leave... Remember Rhinehardt originally wanted Alex to record the Cygnus' departure, not join him. Did shell say mind control? I thought I heard mind control. And mind control, in a Star Frontiers context, usually suggests "sathar." So since we're discussing Black Hole meets Star Frontiers would it be too terrible to introduce sathar into the equation? This is not a real serious suggestion just a brain storm. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 16, 2011 - 7:16pm | Actually thought about it... Sathar agents infiltrate a UFP exploration ship...They take over the mind of it's senior crew. They use the ship's experimental and powerful gravitic propulsion units to create the artificial Black Hole/Wormhole... perhaps to allow the entrance of another species into the frontier... Perhaps a gateway to follow the Ancients... or to the Sathar homeworld... or a Dralasite fraternity prank! |
April 16, 2011 - 8:18pm | I was under the impression that this was a question of how would/could/might, and if, a Black Hole inspired story be fit into a Star Frontiers game module... and how much of the origional story can be reconciled for a module... That in mind, I would include the other core-species, so that it becomes as much about those species as any Human story, and down-play or alter the humanocentric elements that are heavily influencing to the origional story, in order to expand that for players of non-human characters. I would expand the linear-plot, origionaly made for; screen-play, comic, and novel, mediums, so that it includes a non-linear rpg module design as the final focus, and can be inserted into a currently running campaign or used as a stand alone one-shot, without being a 'scene-play-with-rules' for those that prefer more plot and less arc. I would insert elements that allow some of the certain death to be possibly toned down, and it isn't an automatic TPK (total party kill).... if the referee wants to continue in some follow-up adventure. I would atempt to include some catch to all the power creep that might come out any extended campaign, possibly one of the hardest and pointless items, but I would atempt to include some suggestions for those that need the help. I would atempt to make it true to Star-Frontiers first, and then recognizable to the players in hind-sight when all is done. IP isn't a concern if it isn't something I intend to sell, so I am unconcernd with that. As a Tribute with both respect and parody, as I see little difference in final comparison, they are both a celebration of anothers art. A re-imagining is the only way I can reconcile a fit it into the Star Frontiers setting... I would do all the work putting it into a module format because it is a tribute, even if I could only reconcile it in a parody form... which I doubt. If it isn't the SF setting that I am running it for, I would do it in a diffrent system, Alternity, GURPS, or even possibly URS, and I would re-imagine the Black Hole as it's own setting in that case. And there would be only the issue of who would want to play a screen-play style module, and how many non-linear elements do I impose on the origional scripts..... Middle Earth module anyone? I don't play in nose-leading games, I don't run for nose-folowing players, either way I get bored quickly. I recognize that there are likely others who prefer that style, but I have known very few. Even when I went looking, I found very few who liked to play that way, even among those who fell into 'bad-habits' that made it come-out that way. I would not run a Black Hole linear scripted module using the Star Frontiers Rule-set. I would, with no setting concerns to integrate with, find a system that already has the elements necessary for a space psycho-thriller fiction, Alternity and GURPS come to mind as published systems, URS and FUDGE are up there for the free-distributed possibilities, and in a pinch Interlock and Tristat could do it with a quickness..... and after giving that some serious consideration the Storyteller system might do it amazingly well. I already have a library of congress of memorized rpg systems to draw from, whats one more?  So it is a matter of intent, is it to be a true-to-original (what version) scripted-module, or an integration of story inspired elements for inclusion in an established setting? If I were to run it in Spell-Jammer? what would I need to change? would it become 'The Sargasso Incident' ('The Sea of Sorrow' Dungeon Mag. issue #36... one of my fav. SJ Adventures.. ) Would Maxamillian still be the same, if he was a demonicaly possesed Zodar? Maybe Dr. Reinhardt is an Elf and he turned the crew into ferral bionoids? The Heaven and Hell paradigm is freed up to be a real and present problem.... could be fun, would be setting coherent, would it still be The Black Hole? If I were to run it in Dark Conspiracy? Again i am freed up with a real and present afterlife paradigm, and the red robots can reflect an influence of the crimson mist, the crew are truly souless, and Dr. Reinhardt could definatly be right about the 'wormhole effect', but what realm does it lead to? In Rifts, what changes? not much, the ship is saved at the last minute by a cosmo-knight.... everything else is fine, the Naruni and the Splugorth might be interested, but it's a big megaverse easy to loose a black hole in, the Prometheans know where everyone is, especially after they hit the event horrizon. Stargate RPG? that could be pretty nifty too... but would it be the same? Amazing Engine...I just remembered, was intentionally made for the 'play-a-movie' concept from the ground up. I'd have to look it over and see what it could handle, my familiarity with that system is in a different style than this, are hero/plot/drama/force points usefull here... I don't think so, but it might be ok. system error... off topic ramble....... disengaged.... *signal lost* Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
April 16, 2011 - 8:21pm | I think it would be perfectly legit to run it as a classic SF game with the core four or five or as a human-o-centric game like the 2001 & 2010 modules I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 16, 2011 - 8:33pm | I thought about those examples, they are well done the first is more my focus though, it's what I open the SF box for. so many systems..... so little time........ and they all do something better than the others. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 April 16, 2011 - 9:00pm | If I wasn't currently tied up with all the projects I'm dealing with I would love to write this as an Adventure for the Star Frontiers (URS) system, and might have to add this to the list of things to do. having had a long history of treating my gaming group to the occassional Movie turned into a game (One of my favorites was having a small village during summer harvest plagued by a....wait for it...bullette (land shark), which the party had to kill...Jaws anyone) I think I could do it in a way that it paid tribute to the original without being a copy. I would have the crew of the scoutship being sent to find out why a corporate research vessel has been ignoring the orders to return to their home base because funding for the research has been cut off because the company feels that further study of the event horizon is not a profitable investment and their multi million credit ship can be better used elsewhere. Among the crew of this ship is a young woman who's father was aboard the research vessel and who has stopped sending communications home mysteriously, and a corporate overseer who is supposed to tag along and monitor the situation and file a report back to the corporation. the rest of the crew are PC's but these two are NPC's. Once aboard the cygnus they are told that most of the ship's crew were affected by a space sickness and have to wear these protective suits but the disease has been contained and the crew are not in any danger. The chief scientist though also tells them that because of this disease there aren't enough survivors to pilot the ship back (hiding his true intentions). Vincent the ship's maintenence robot comes across an earlier model wh relays to him the truth that the chief scientist smuggled a warbot aboard the ship and used it to kill the ship's command crew when they informed him that they were ordered to return to base. He then took took th remaining crewmembers and lobotomized them, installing control chips into their brains that allow him to insure that they do not betray him. Vincent tells the others but it's already too late and the scientist has already begun to move the ship dangerously close to the singularity and has sent his security bots and his warbot to stop them from getting off the ship with the truth of what he has done in the name of science. So the crew must race back to their ship and escape before they are sucked down the singularity with the scientist and his abominations. Anyway that's somewhat how I'd do it. "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
 April 19, 2011 - 8:46pm | If it's a Palimino type ship needed, maybe one of mah stylin' HS2ers from mah website might serve (or at least be close enough to a "tin can" ship. Go 2 mah website. Click on the SF art gallery. Some of the tin cans can be found in the 2nd and 3rd albums. Deys be free fer the taking if ya like any! My SF website izz: http://ragnarr.webs.com |
April 21, 2011 - 1:16pm | Ok, here is my vision of the "tin can" in space starship |
