Royal Guard equipment

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 27, 2011 - 8:21pm
Clarion Royal Guard

"jedion357" wrote:
ground forces probably make heavy use of jet copters with a few air cars- in a soggy environment like Clarion hover vehicles will be the order of the day.

except for in the mountains, where they still use live and robotic horses the RMC will make heavy use of hover cycles- likely they have a 2 seater for a pair of officers or they just pair 2 officers with 2 cycles.


And of course we'll have to hash out a hover-tank Wink

As for the mountainous regions, AWD ground vehicles will work too. Or even trackmobile explorers. We could even substitute quads for horses...
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website
Comments:

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 27, 2011 - 8:42pm
Yeah, Hammer's Slammers! roll in the the hover tanks!

RE: hover tanks- I'm of the opinion that the RG main battle tank designed with 2 objectives in mind:

1. to be effective on most of Clarion- hence its a hover vehicle.

2. Thought is also given to going up against the Sathar especially in deployment to other worlds when needed. The mission to deal with the sathar will probably require lots of AP ordinance for dealing with hordes of attack monsters and sathar infantry (things witnessed in the Battle for Volkos) Also I think cannon statements suggest similar treatment to Pale and Laco's World in the SW1.
So i think that they might trade off a really big gun for lots of smaller calliber action in multiple directions. or at least the one tank, possibly the majority model is an explicity anti infantry model

3. What about power armor? I think power armor suits will bog down in mud flats so at most Clarion will have invested minimally in these
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
January 27, 2011 - 8:53pm
Why not have conventional hover main-battle tanks(maybe a regiment or two), some self-propelled hover artillery, with the anti-infantry hover tank you mentioned being more of an MICV(HICV?), like the Bradley, the Stryker or the LAV, able to not just able to deal with Sathar attack monsters and Sathar infantry scrubs, but also transport infantry squads into combat.

Powered armor and mecha would be few and far between, and used almost exclusively for urban combat(possibly even for COIN operations as well), where even hover AFVs will be hard pressed to maneuver.

Also, the Royal Guard should have forces more mobile than conventional infantry(something similar to the Irish Army's Ranger Wing), perhaps mounted on armed hover bikes or hover cars converted into Frontier-analogue FAVs/SRVs. 
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 27, 2011 - 9:13pm
Hammer's Slammers...I loved that tank on the cover. I have a rendition of it on my SF homepage gallery.

I don't see much need for powered armor or mechs, although the latter would handle the mud flats better. Hovercraft would be the mainstay, with AWD vehicles for the mountainous regions.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 27, 2011 - 9:14pm
@ Will: sounds like we are talking about a highly mobile force.

I like the idea of a hover version of the Bradley, Possible doctrine for this vehicle is to deliver infantry to the front and support them in the fight against sathar attack monsters.

main battle tank is less common but present in the OB

lots of jet copters; Viet Naum air cav?

plenty of the Meteor Class Assault Shuttle from issue 16 (the Vtol Osprey like vehicle)

Some special forces units might have power armor in their inventory but again likely vary rare. Cant see the Marines needing it at all.

mecha dont see it in the Clarion OB at all.

What about robotic military assets could these be the hover artillery? Does hover artillery have to set down to fire?

Question: do the Air Cav units refer to the hover cav units as "Mud Cav"?
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
January 28, 2011 - 11:48am
@Jedi, modern combat doctrine stresses mobility and rapid deployment, especially given the fighting against irregulars.

I think a regiment or two of MBTs would suffice for the Royal Guard(possibly as Household Cavalry Regiments), normally detailled to patrolling the few open areas of water round the capital, as well as for brown-water operations in general(2300's hover tanks are capable of being used in blue- and brown-water ops as well as overland combat).

There would probably be a regiment of Household Cavalry mounted on robotic steeds, both for guard and ceremonial duties, and for defense of the cities themselves in case of attack. The robotic horse-mounted forces might even serve in the formation recon role in such unforgiving planets as Laco or Volturnus, as well as against Sathar scrubs and their attack beasties.

Also, some infantry units(dragoons)would be designated as Household Units as well, dedicated to royal protection. 

Combat and war bots would be part of the Royal Guard orbat, found as supplemental firepower as far down as the squad level.

Spec forces wouldn't use powered armor, as their credo would be to travel light and strike fast.

Definitely plenty of Meteor assault shuttles, but that might bring up the issue of just whose assets they are(like the A-10 debate between the Army and the Air Force).

Plenty of room for robotic arty platforms in the hover artillery(with the artillerists sitting in an Explorer or similarly highly-mobile vehicle passing on the bots' firing orders).

I would think that hover artillery would be able to fire on the move.

In addition to hover artillery, we would probably have a corps of the Royal Guard dedicated to manning the ortillery and planetary defense batteries, and another manning fighter craft(which can be used for close orbital defense and air support, freeing the Royal Marines up to man the bigger ships).

Also, you would have hover arty units dedicated to air-defense duties as well, able to zip around from point to point to supplement the fixed planetary defense emplacements.

In retrospect, I wouldn't see much use for mecha(except for the robo-horses) and powered armor in the Royal Guards orbat; these would mainly be Landfleet assets, since they lend themselves more easily to rapid deployments and planetary assaults than the hover AFVs seen in the Dragon magazines.

On the other hand, you'd definitely see a great deal of aircars and jetcopters as hogs, slicks, and dustoffs, with larger aircars and jetcopters performing as hogs and slicks simoultaneously. These airmobile formations would work closely with the mud hens assigned to the hover infantry(with these infantry possibly even equipped with jet packs to enhance their mobility)in highly-mobile formations capable of tackling any role from conventional combat to COIN operations.

(BTW, for those unfamiliar with Vietnam-era terminology, hogs=gunships, slicks=troop carriers, dustoffs=medical evacuation).

I would say air cav would refer to the hover infantry as mud hens or something similar. The Royal Guard would probably officially refer to the hover infantry as "dragoons," as at least one brigade combat team of Stryker-equipped U.S. Army soldiers are now(the 2d U.S. Dragoons), to reflect their high rate of mobility.

One more thing: The Guards might also maintain specialist units for, say Alpine ops on the planet's south pole. They would be small in number and relatively light on firepower, but effective in their chosen field of endeavour.
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 28, 2011 - 2:21pm
Will the only thing I can disagree with is hover artillery firing on the move.

Artillery suggest large bore and the recoil will likely have bad effects on the hover skirt and fan risking damage. A robotic SAM unit could be a different story.

I'd expect that hover artillery would come to a halt. Extend its stablization legs past the hover skirt and fairly quickly establish a stable firing platform. Being a robot it'd likely do this extremely fast. be able to shoot several rounds, pull up its legs and scoot to a new position.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
January 28, 2011 - 2:59pm
jedi wrote:
Artillery suggest large bore and the recoil will likely have bad effects on the hover skirt and fan risking damage. A robotic SAM unit could be a different story.

Depends on what the artillery platform's packing. Multiple artillery rocket launchers won't have as much recoil as cannon, and artillery beam weapons won't have any recoil at all.

And, if memory serves, the Army's now-divided Future Combat Systems' program was working on an SP gun which could fire on the move.


" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 28, 2011 - 7:49pm
Please enlighten me as to how a beam weapon functions in the role of artillery.

I can see rockets functioning as artillery, they have done so for longer than most people realize. I guess a hover craft heavy force will prefer ordinance that does not interfer they style of mobility.

What I can see:
A company coms for artillery support and the the chain of command comes back that the artillery was overrun 10 minutes ago.

Soldier says, "L. T. we're fragged without the arty!"

Lt. responds, "Just keep firing!"

a moment latter a battery of laser beams lance down from the clouds lighting up the whole sky and illuminating the hords of sathar sweeping toward the dug in company. Above them in orbit the UPF frigate Intollerant has unleashed her laser battery sweeping the sathar position.

I'm pretty sure beam weapons of LOS and artillery is not usually LOS, but you've made me currious
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
January 29, 2011 - 12:05am
I was thinking of them as long-range direct-fire weapons which can engage distant LOS targets. But, yeah, arty rocket launchers and similar indirect-fire weapons would dominate in a hover artillery unit

Also, thanks for reminding me of what I forgot, air and naval gunfire support capabilities. The Royal Guard would probably have a couple of Air/Naval Gunfire Liaison Companies(ANGLICOs), if not a Naval Gunfire Liaison Operations(noglo)specialist attached at squad level.

Alternatively, an individual Guardsman's weapon's own targeting systems could be networked to fire-control computers on air, orbital, and space assets, allowing him to paint a target to be taken out by airstrikes, orbiting starships, or orbital weapons platforms.  



" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 29, 2011 - 1:18am
jedion357 wrote:
Will the only thing I can disagree with is hover artillery firing on the move.

Artillery suggest large bore and the recoil will likely have bad effects on the hover skirt and fan risking damage. A robotic SAM unit could be a different story.


For projectile weapons, I would agree.

However, IIRC a gyrojet offers very little in the way of "kick" and a laser weapon offers none whatsoever. So a hover tank armed with a "laser cannon" (for lack of a better word) and some missiles, it could fire ont he move. One with a big howitzer type cannon, well it would have to stop and secure itself first.

As for a laser's effectiveness as an artillery weapon --- com enow, tell me you've never had a game where your character is firing a heavy laser and wanting so much more.Wink Seriously though, as a line of sight weapon with long range (as well as offering far more damage than the personal weapons can inflict, that's another discussion altogether) it's something that can be used for picking off distant targets.

It almost worked in the Phantom Menace anyways LOL
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 29, 2011 - 4:38am
So lets say howitzers are contra-indicated and lasers, rockets, gyro are the order of the day- combine this with high mobility and you're painting a picture of a very distinctive force.

Royal Guard uses the War Tech Mk23 LION; Laser Infantry O______ N______ rifle?
A laser rifle designed specifically for the Royal Guard: The SEU selector has settings for 20 thru 0- 0 still uses 1 SEU but allow the infantry man to paint a target with an invisible laser.
It also comes with other features built in. IR and mag x1 optics and an integral underslung grenade launcher.

In such a wet environment would not a flame thrower not be an effective weapon- lots of weapons have defenses but few people worry about defending against flame. No fear of starting fires on Clarion. I'm thinking the flamer would be one of the robotic minions. Assigned at the company or individual squad level.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
January 29, 2011 - 12:16pm
Hmmm, the Mark 23 Laser, Infantry Objective Neutralization infantry rifle would be a perfect weapon for Royal Guard line troops.

It wouldn't be the only standard-issue infantry rifle, of course. Guardsmen would also be issued with rafflur weapons(specifically made to Royal Guard standards) such as the Mk 22 Particle Accelerator New Technology Rifle(PANTR, pronounced panther), equipped with a built-in targeting laser and all the other goodies the LION would have.

Also, for long-range sniping, and situations where lasers might not cut it(e.g. if the bad guys have albedo screens), Guardsmen would also be issued the Mk 21 Technology Improved Gyrojet Rifle(TIGR, or tiger), which would use needler technology to accelerate the rocket, so it would be useful at point-blank range, as well as beyond point-blank range. The WarTech TIGR would also have a targeting laser, grenade launcher, and the optics of the other two rifles.

All the rifles would, of course, come with bayonet lugs, as a just in case, with a choice between vibroblades, and, maybe a proton bayonet based on Shadow's Rafflur M-0.

Now, on the subject of flamethrowers: They're good for cleaning out troops dug into defensive works—caves, pillboxes, tunnels, and the like—as the Army and Marines demonstrated during the Pacifici island-hopping campaign during WWII.

They're also of some use in COIN operations(flushing or burning out ambushers from their cover).

That said, flamethrower troops will be few and far between, and, almost always robots, like you said, Jedi, since no sane commander would risk a lucky shot to the tanks turning one of his organic troops into a flaming charcoal briquette when there's  robots to do that kind of suicidal grunt work.

These being highly-specialized units, flamethrower bots would generally be assigned at battalion level and up, unless the troops are up against enemies holed up in caves or other defensive works on a regular basis(or engaged in operations against Zuraqquor hives on a regular basis).
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."