 January 27, 2011 - 12:14am | We have the frigate Leo and assault scouts Falcon, Wasp, and Osprey (later joined by Flitter & Swallow). Any other thoughts? |
 January 27, 2011 - 6:16am | I think we can assume that there are outpost on various planet and that the companies setting them up arranged for Ag ships to make a monthly stop to off load food. got to be an incredibly boring job. Also ag ships might be a good idea for crops that dont get on well with Clarion's environment. ground forces probably make heavy use of jet copters with a few air cars- in a soggy environment like Clarion hover vehicles will be the order of the day. except for in the mountains, where they still use live and robotic horses the RMC will make heavy use of hover cycles- likely they have a 2 seater for a pair of officers or they just pair 2 officers with 2 cycles. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 27, 2011 - 2:46pm | Also ag ships might be a good idea for crops that dont get on well with Clarion's environment. An ag-stationwould serve them better in that regard. A ship[ can only support 200 persons per hull size, so even at maximum size an ag-system ship would only support 4000 (while Clarion's cities have populations measured in tens of millions). However, an ag-ship would come in useful to support the aforementioned outposts (moons, asteroid, etc), but that would most likely fall onto the companies supporting said operations rather than the Royal Marines. One other idea I had --- perhaps in the wake of the Sathar War the Crown might commission a minelayer. They might even need a small carrier to shuttle fighters into deep space when needed (as their limited life support is dependant on the pilot's vacc suits, i.e. 60 hours tops unless you pack the cockpit full of LS refills, thus restricting movement  ). The local SCC, with the help of a WarTech military contractor, could whip out a simple system carrier for such duty.Lightspeed Lady class yacht --- that was the one I was trying to think of last night, unless my penned sheet is wrong that's a HS:5 ship. It could be equipped with both drives (atomic and chemical) and be streamlined, thus permitting it to make planetfall and be stored in a local hangar adjacent to the palace in Valentina. I've also toyed with the idea of having the FLitter & Swallow as variant assault scouts, perhaps equipped with a pod laser system and a single assault rocket (in addition to the laser battery) while retaining the same stats otherwise. |
 January 27, 2011 - 4:53pm | 1. I agree with the jedion. 2. Armed yatch yes (even a decoy), with a compliment of military craft. Never leave home without it. 3. I'm sure there are mining operations in-system. And there would be early warning outposts. Issue #14 - Yachts and Privateers ReturnRemastered Dragon #88 by Douglas Niles |
January 27, 2011 - 5:23pm | Hmm, a series of system ships with radar/energy sensor arrays stationed in deep space. An ion driven insystem "liner" (or more appropriately, troop transport) would have to shuttle personnel back and forth as the ions would be more efficient for such duty than the limited fuel chem thrusters. P.S. good stuff for the ground jedion, we should start another thread detailing Royal Guard order of battle for that. |
January 27, 2011 - 9:20pm | I think that the RM would press a confiscated freighter into an Aux Carrier with Coursair containers for docking fighters. could also see a corsair container left in orbit of the outermost planet as and emergency port for fighters on long patrol. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 27, 2011 - 10:42pm | What about a Royal Mariner Guard - responsible for patrolling the high seas. |
 January 28, 2011 - 11:20am | I would think what few bodies of open water Clarion has would be patrolled by Royal Guard hover vehicles, possibly in company with some RMC hydrofoils as well. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
January 28, 2011 - 2:03pm | @ w00t and Will- since the planet is a single political entity a navy is a service in search of a mission but a dedicated Coast Guard service would be a different story and Will is of course correct that hover vehicles can go feet wet though probably not in all weather. To date we've never seen the sathar go in for aquatic operations. No doubt the Royal Guard does practice going "Feet Wet" for seaward assaults of positions. i just dont see this as major concern. So what should we call the Clarian version of the Coast Guard? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 28, 2011 - 3:01pm | Why not the Royal Coast Guard? " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
January 28, 2011 - 7:54pm | Why not the Royal Coast Guard? Sure why not. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 1, 2011 - 10:17am | Why only one fighter squadron? Or only one based on the Station, and there are atmo-only fighters in the Militia? I am reminded of the "Royal AeroSpace Service" from E. Moon's novels, a noble-infested fighter branch, also known as the Royal ASSes. Second, something that bothers me-- I can't recall if this was ever said before-- where are Assault Scouts built? I realize it could be any Class I or II yard, but has it ever been said that the AS design is from Fill-in-the-blank Yard, a fine product of Megacorp-to-be-named-later? If the CSM is still taking possession of its flotilla of 5, who are they paying for them? What political fight ensued in the Parliament when the King wanted to upgrade the CSM to jump-capable ships? What did they use before that for customs inspections? I'm thinking that's where the armed yachts (or system shuttles) had been, which have now been retired/sold/scrapped/mothballed. |
February 1, 2011 - 3:24pm | Obviously the assault scouts are "imported", I would say it's a closely guarded blueprint that ultimately belongs to a megacorp (we'll say WarTech for lack of a better one) and is built under supervision (Star Law? SpaceFleet?) at one of the Class I SCC yards. Prior to the Assault Scout (which has to be a post Sathar War I design) I would guess they used some form of an armed scout ship --- same size but just not packing as much punch and/or performance. That, and a possibility of a few system ships produced at Clarion's own Class III SCC. ___________________________ As for fighter squadron(s), I have no problem with more than one. In my game every populated world has one squadron per population rank, regardless of what other militia ships (if any) are listed for it. It's certainly up for debate, but here's my take on it: On p.3 of the module (beta section 2 - RM Organization) it starts off claiming that the CRM consists of 300 personnel and four ships, of which "only 50 are actually crew members". If you look at the officers listed two sections later, the frigate Leo crew consists of 6 officers, 28 crew, and 15 boarding members --- totalling more than 50 right there. 21 more for the scouts Falcon and Wasp, plus the two officers and two crew on the Osprey at the start of WoWW brings the grand total to 75 crew before the players even sign on. If you toss out boarding party members from those rosters (which I wouldn't classify as officer or crew, so they should be tossed out of said numbers), it comes to 45...just under the claimed 50, which leaves just enough left over for the two scouts on order (counting the two crewmembers that get reassigned from the Osprey after the players arrive, that leaves seven reserve positions - not even enough for the two new scouts, at which point one more officer is removed a la Tabbe, lowering the number to 49 plus players). As for the option of adding the two more scouts by the end of the module (which should eventually happen regardless if the players reached second level or not, after all they are listed as "on order" so sooner or later they take possession of them), someone out of the (49 + players) has to staff these two boats, players or otherwise, the pool narrows either way. By Face of the Enemy, the Osprey's total occupants number ten - Klast plus four officers/crew positions (Klast isn't even second fiddle, there's a First Officer listed) and five enlisted. So that's four officer/crew that replace the players (who moved on to participate in the Eleanor Moraes expedition) out of that pool of 50-ish (and I say "-ish" as the Beyond the Frontier series takes place later, sufficient time to increase the CRM's numbers a bit. Thats another debate wink-wink-nudge-nudge). So if you stick to the canon numbers and setting, there really isn't enough left over for even a single squadron. So the way I see it, a fighter squadron is a future expansion effort of the CRM. As their numbers grow, they can add more craft to the roster. As written, to have a yacht and the captured Dark Shadow thrown in...crew must be pulled from the warships to enable any special missions involving those craft (granted crew on the yacht and freighter could be civilian personnel of high standing, they don't have to be CRM --- they could even be selected personal bodyguards. I even designated those two as non-CMS craft to reflect this non-milita status). Perhaps somewhere on the time line we can claim the CRM numbers double some time after WoWW, or at least increase sufficiently enough along the way...at which point fighter squadron(s) can be added. On the other hand --- if the fighter pilots get pooled from the Royal Guard or the civilians who learned ship skills, it becmes moot and we can have more than one squadron. I just don't see RG members performing RM duties, it's "LandFleet" and "SpaceFleet" --- you're either in one or the other, and if you want the other you need to transfer. But the bottom line here is any craft added to the CRM mandates an increase in their numbers, else the craft must be manned by Royal Guard or civilians etc |
February 2, 2011 - 8:43am | Something I was looking at yesterday: There probably ought to be some kind of system traffic-control network set up. Obviously, Clarion Station would be its HQ, but it would like to have remote-operated sensor stations further out. If radar and energy sensors can only detect ships at 30-50 hexes, but deceleration from FTL starts from farther out than that, they'll want a shell of sensor stations out there, tied into the control station. That means, from time to time someone will have to run maintenance on those stations, so there should be a system ship/shuttle and crew designated for that. This would be like the Coast Guard's lighthouse/lightship or buoy tenders. It doesn't need to be armed or fast, so a small freighter conversion would work just fine. |
February 2, 2011 - 3:21pm | Someone else suggested that as well. I figure anything that can be added to a ship can be added to a station at larger scale, and even greater scale for the planetary surface...meaning radar & energy sensors with greater ranges. Still, even with a maximum range, it won't cover the "deeper" portions space. Either way a series of system ships with extensive sensor arrays is in order, along with craft to provide maintenance/fuel/supplies/relief crews to boot. I figure any support craft will be sporting ion propulsion, since a chemical thruster is limited to fuel and can only accelerate so far on a given load compared to the unlimited acceleration of an ion drive. By adding a "jump governor" to the ion drive it can still be a system ship by default, much like a fighter. |
February 4, 2011 - 3:05pm | After I finished rendering the Dark Shadow last night, I did a little brainstorming based on the discussions here and in the DS thread ( http://starfrontiers.us/node/4865 ). Larry mentioned a carrier container for a fighter squadron (a la Corsair Container from the Deck Plans project), so I figured perhaps they could also hae a "minelayer" container as well. Granted that doesn't mesh with MHS rulings, so I figured, being a cargo container with lots of empty space --- why not a mine spreader in the stern with a smaller capacity of mines (say 10 or 12 instead of the usual allotment of 20 for a HS:7 minelayer ship)? It would still be sufficient for a protective layer around the station and planet without being a full on fleet capable tactical craft. |
February 4, 2011 - 9:39pm | A few thoughts; 1.) In order to be part of the UPF, what would be the minimal compliment of FTL capable craft a system must maintain? With that said, Clarion (like other systems) might have 60% or more STL craft replacing the FTL part of the ship with sensors, crew, weapons, yada. 2.) An idea for flavor and role-playing is to set the sensor ranges in AU and LY. Most ships should have at least 0.3 AU passive sensors and 0.3 LY active sensors. (Of course hexes are preferred when playing the board game.) With a light set of rules you can make a circular system map and blanket it in sensors. Have the players investigate false-positive readings or a dead sensor. |
 February 4, 2011 - 10:23pm | 2.) An idea for flavor and role-playing is to set the sensor ranges in AU and LY. Most ships should have at least 0.3 AU passive sensors and 0.3 LY active sensors. (Of course hexes are preferred when playing the board game.) With a light set of rules you can make a circular system map and blanket it in sensors. Have the players investigate false-positive readings or a dead sensor. I think you mean 0.3 AU for active sensors and 0.3 ly for passive ones. 0.3ly = ~20,000 AU. You're not going to get any sort of active system with that kind of detection range. Plus at 0.3 ly range, the sensor data would be 4 months out of date by the time you received it.  . 0.3AU is only about 2.5 minutes old.Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
February 4, 2011 - 11:27pm | Sure, something like that. Really the point is adding a sensor-net to a star system. Short range scanners perhaps use tachyons rebounding off objects providing a detailed view up to x AU distance. Using this type of scanner is much like a sonar ping, you may give away your location. Long range scanners passively sniff the surrounding area, they will not give away your position and could use the same AU scale. |
February 5, 2011 - 2:33am | 1.) In order to be part of the UPF, what would be the minimal compliment of FTL capable craft a system must maintain? Zero. Re: p.55-56 of the KH Campaign Manual: only ten of the 23 core AD worlds have a militia of ships (13 if you count the home bases of the three UPF fleets). Laco doesn't even have a representative government (re: Council of Worlds) yet is still part of the UPF. |
