 December 27, 2010 - 5:23pm | cybernetics are fun and interesting however I want to insert a word of caution here: we should consider the right flavor and balance for the Frontier 1. less Shadowrun rpgish and more Judge Dredd feel, or to put it bluntly why play SF if you want a Shadow Run Game? We could of course write a shadow run conversion for SF but that is really outside the mandate of this project. Thus as project manager I will push for a SF feel to what we produce 2. cybernetics should not be allowed to corrupt the western Frontier feel of SF 3. should have similar cybernetics levels like robots do ranging from level one which is very crude and or clunky and extremely obvious to levels 5 and 6 which are very difficult to detech unless they demonstrate unnatural capabilities (but would likely look like god like powers to primitives) and would be insanely expensive and life like to casual observation (unless they are not meant to decieve as to their mechanical nature: like the shell people in Ann Mcaffries The Ship Who Sang series) I certainly would entertain a ship run off the autonomic nervous system of a human brain removed from its body and installed into the body of the ship but likely as only an NPC as it could be very limiting for a PC any other considerations on "the feel of cybernetics in the Frontier" that I miss? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 December 27, 2010 - 7:55pm | or to put it bluntly why play SF if you want a Shadow Run Game? d100 less dice? Seriously, here are some cybernetics rules Shadow originially posted in the sf.org forums that might work: CYBERNETICS Once a medical roboticist has experienced the field of Bionics, the inevitable next step is acquiring an understanding of Robot Psychology (robopsychology) and applying the skills towards the grafting of organic brains to robotic shells. To this end, there are two different types of constructions: Cybernetic Robots (Cybots) and Cybernetic Organisms (Cyborgs). It should be noted that both are illegal in the Frontier sector for reasons of moral and safe nature, as explained later. The first step in creating a cybernetic being is acquiring a donor body/corpse. Depending how well preserved the corpse is will determine how well it will function. A corpse (or willing volunteer host) that was placed immediately in a freeze field is ideal, as all memories and skills can be retained (assuming the cyberneticist wishes so), but for each day the corspe has been permitted to decompose, memory and skill wanes exponentially (say one skill level per day, skill by skill on a daily basis). What makes the cybernetic being superior to standard robots is the free will and thought processes, either of which can be overridden by the cyberneticist. Gone are the basic functions and missions of standard robots, replaced by an organic brain fueled by artificial or organic heart, lungs, digestive tracts, and circulatory systems. Thus a free thinking and learning machine is permitted to expand its knowledge, coupled by an electronic computer processing unit that amplifies and controls such abilities. To that end, a tybical cybot/borg will possess skills much like a PC or NPC would. CYBOTS In essence, a cybot is like "introducing organic life into a robot body". Cybots follow the standard rules laid out in AD, as far as construction goes (body types, movement types, number of limbs, etc). The only difference is the CPU and any other control equipment added in to assist the organic brain and any support organs and systems. A cybot's level is determined by averaging the skills it possesses, so if a militant host body had Beam Weapons(5), Gyrojet Weapons(4), and Melee Weapons(3) at build time, it would be considered as a LVL:4 cybot (5 + 4 + 3 = 12, 12/3 = 4). A CYbot's attack score is determined just as any other robot's score: (level x 10) +30. However, this is actually the Cybot's "Dexterity" score, to which any weapon skills can be added just as if it were a PC or NPC. The Cybot's IM is the DEX score divided by ten, rounding up when possible. CYBORGS In essence, a cyborg is like "introducing robotics into an organic body". A cyborg is typically a ressurected host body that has been electronically and mechanically improved/repaired. The only costs being what is needed as far as improvements...starting with the CPU ruling laid out in Cybots and any mechanical/electronic organs. Improvements could include skeletal coatings in metal (federanium) for a "stronger chassis" and bionic limbs, as well as infrared/ultraviolet receptors replacing an eye or eyes, long range audio recievers, internal weapons (such as pop out claws or blade weapons, or even concealed pistol type weapons), and any other item that comes to mind for the build. Cyborg level is determined inthe same manner as cybot levels. Once clothed, cyborgs are much more difficult to distinguish from normal beings, making them a favored build. It is also a more complex process, hence the chance of success is lower. Also note that unlike Cybots, a Cyborg will retain character ability scores. STR, STA, DEX and RS can be enhanced, INT/LOG may be increased over time by experience point expenditure, but PER and LDR tend to be reduced by -10 to -20 of the original host body, or 45/45 whichever is less. A cyborg may never reach more than the average for its host race. Possible Complications electronic/mechanical malfunction organic malfunction inability to control insanity from organic damage (can use robopsychology to cure) insanity from electronic damage (no cure) regains memories leading to death, rampage if person(s) responsible are present full awareness within d10 months, can overide CPU and any control protocols Additional Equipment Costs Armored skin/body = cost of suit x 10Cr Artificial organs/systems electronic heart = 1500Cr mechanical lung(s) = 1000Cr each digestive tract(liquid only) = 500Cr circulatory system = 500Cr live blood = 500Cr/liter Dralasite protein fluid base = 1500Cr nervous system = 3000Cr CPU = 2000Cr/level Cyber uplink control circuit = 2500Cr Remote interface = 2000Cr Skeletal Enhancement: Durasteel = 5000Cr PlastiSteel = 1500Cr Federanium = 20000Cr NOTES ON CYBERNETIC ACTIVITY/BEHAVIOR As a cybernetic being is introduced into a campaign, it should be treated like a highly skilled or gifted child. It has a child like mentality with an adult capacity of learning and understanding. It will seek enlightenment on its own accord, something that can not be controlled as an organic brain is conditioned to learning. Eventually the cybernetic being will become self aware, meaning it will not be controlled by any means as its brain learns to ignore the electrical impulses that retard functions. This chance is ( 10 - 1 per cybernetics level at time of construction) % per year cumulative, so a being constructed by a LVL:3 cyberneticist has a 7% chance per year of becoming self aware. A chance of insanity is also present once self aware, being a base 70% minus 10% per cyberneticist's Robopsychology level. It is for these reasons that cybernetic beings are deemed illegal in Frontier society, as they can be very difficult to overcome once they go into this state. The positive aspect of a cybernetic being is the control capacity while it is still able to be controlled. It will obey the cyberneticist's every command to a reasonable degree, meaning if the cybernetic being realizes the action could cause permanent harm or death it may choose to ignore the command (an LDR check can be made on behalf of the commanding person if the referree so wishes in many cases). It will not directly perform any activity that it knows will result in certain harm, such as stepping out of an airlock into the vacuum of space without protection. Hence the entire mission/function system of robotics can be ignored, and the cybot/borg can be commanded verbally or via remote uplinks. Since a cybot/borg has the capacity to learn, it may also increase its existing skills or learn new ones over time. To this end allow 1XP per month to be accrued by the cybot/borg and it can increase or add skills as it desires, assuming such training or experience is available. And due to the nature of the learning process, an organic brain coupled to a CPU, there is no PSA so any skill can be acquired at normal experience point expenditure. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
December 27, 2010 - 7:53pm | All right Will make the most obvious point (mechanics) now give me your opinion on the flavor that cybernetics should follow I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 27, 2010 - 7:56pm | Scroll up. I posted Shadow's bionics rules from the sf.org forums above. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
 March 22, 2017 - 9:41am | This is an interesting posting. I've been trying to put a rules section together to try to incorporate the information that Chris Donovan posted on this site about bionics with the stories that were published in Star Frontiersman magazine. I am trying to imagine what the TSR developers actually had in mind for cybernetics in the Frontier. Our examples include the Sathar monsters and then the cybots in "Bugs in the System" and "Warriors of the White Light." While the Sathar probably use the "corpse (or
willing volunteer host
unwilling host) that was placed immediately in a freeze field," I don't think that is what was intended for the UPF. My guess is the TSR designers were thinking of Frontier cybots as being more like the organically grown androids from Gamma World. The blending of the organic and the synthetic -- like the borg queen once told Picard in Star Trek. I think using a corpse -- ala Frankenstein moster -- would probably be illegal on most Frontier worlds, though it might be OK on the Outer Reach or some of the corporate worlds. The "advantage" of cybots is that they would have the processing power of a robot with the intuitiveness of a biological organism. Again I would point at Gamma World which has supervisory cyborgs instead of robot brains and cybernetic installations -- the high end computer "think tanks" protected by warbots and death machines. The Frontier wouldn't have that high tech but there might be remnants of Tetrarch facilities scattered around. Joe Cabadas |
March 22, 2017 - 6:24pm | I would not jump thru too many hoops to match the flavor of fiction in the SFman or FE- its fan canon at best and if it makes you struggle to get things right then scrap it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 22, 2017 - 8:58pm | I would not jump thru too many hoops to match the flavor of fiction in the SFman or FE- its fan canon at best and if it makes you struggle to get things right then scrap it.
Oh, but I like the thought that you and Bill Logan put into your respective stories. I just want, for myself, to have an integrated rule system/price system. For example, with the powered armor rules, I hadn't thought too much about them other than seeing what had been published in SFman. Then you posted the collection of Dragon magazine stories under your Top Secret project and I saw the old powered armor story there. I had forgotten about it. While I liked some aspects of the original Dragon story, I much preferred Chris Harper's presentation, but also liked some of the other fan-created powered armor suits. But, if I ever wanted to use them in a campaign, they all acted radically different in some aspects. Hopefully I've synthesized this and I want to integrate some of the bionics/cybernetics stuff here and in the magazines. After all, without the fan fiction, Star Frontiers would be dead... deader than a gunslinger at Boot Hill. Joe Cabadas |
