 July 30, 2010 - 8:41pm | If you can't tell, this is a mature subject. I what to get folks ideas about the Frontier's attitudes towards sex, monogamy, sexual interests, and customs, as well as how people deal with such matters in their own games. Things like mixed-racial relationships (you know what they say about "going blob?"), same-sex relationships, using android sex-dolls, genetically engineered children and birth-defects, extent of what is considered modesty dressed, adult entertainment and establishments, and anything else on this level - basically, stuff TSR Inc. was to polite to talk about. |
 July 30, 2010 - 9:09pm | I have no opinion on the matter. After all robots are genderless (as-far-as-you-know). :-) The only item you list I would use or allow in games are "genetically engineered children" most likely as a plot device. Modesty dressed people, adult entertainment and establishments could be mentioned in adventures but they aren't the focus. "The person your tracking just walked into a yazirian adult entertainment store. He's not yazirian. You can hope he gets thrown out or walk in yourself. What do you do?" (just an example) I guess this could be considered on the level of "evil" players. I've never had fun running a game with evil type characters. Of course... evil Referee's are different. :-P |
July 30, 2010 - 9:12pm | Robots do love.  ALL CAPS - Don't unplug me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_51Hs56wW4 |
July 31, 2010 - 8:23am | I think it would be different for the 4 races. Let's take humans first. What intially drove internet commerce? Every expert I have heard on the subject said the adult industry. If you want to run a we have evolved beyond our animalistic natures campaign, by all means do it. If you want something a little more gritted in reality it will depend upon the social attitudes of the worlds. For example, I run that anything can be gotten on Outer Reach for the right price. However, the monoarchy of White Light there would have some issues with more lascivious behavior. Not that Star Law is turning over every massage parlour in the system, but it's more a part of the underground than anything else. Further, given the whole aliens took over someone and we are now all wearing see through clothing plot in Zebs, I would imagine that the 3 of the 4 core races are getting more promiscuous. The Dralasites just think we are all being silly and is one of the fastest growing joke genres in the steam baths. More on this later when I am not late for work. -LZ |
 July 31, 2010 - 1:18pm | I don't believe there should be a rules system to support this. However as far as adding it to a setting or scenario, it should be up to the individual GM and players group weather it should be allowed. Somethings are better off left as assumptions or else this could open the door to allow the game could degrade into something questionable. This is similar to another discussion we had about Cannabalistic Physcotic "Reaver" Type Disorders where it is of course assumed that they attack, rape, rob, pillage, and ravage anything they come across. The assumption allows for the understanding of the behavior without having to play out such scenarios at the game table. I think everyone should be their own morality watch dog in the game and what you allow is what you allow. It is my opinion this area should fall under house rules as opposed to supplemental or core rules. |
July 31, 2010 - 6:39pm | I use sexual elements in my games, but I never have the players make a "performance check", nor do I have it played-out - some flirting and "lets go to my bunk", and that about it. These things never really needed rules to cover it as its mostly fluff and background elements. One might add rules for dealing with the added cost of making an android into a realistic (and literal) sex-machine, but adding rules to how well they "preform" would really immature and quite unnecessary. On the other hand, how people react to folks who have a robot-lover makes for a good plot-hooks like what is seen in Firefly (where its illegal) and Ghost in the Shell (where its a generally accepted fetish). In the case of Heavy Metal 2000, it makes for a good running joke! |
 August 1, 2010 - 1:24pm | I suppose it would depend on how far into the "trans-human" gendre you want to go. There are three levels of science ficion drama. The first is the most common, it explores contemperary ideas but uses a SF framework to "take the edge" off of controvercial subjects. Examples of this type are main stream productions like Star Treck and BattleStar Galactica. I suppose you could say this is the "middle road." There is room to explore relationships and the different races are really just different types of humans. In this context the range of sexuality is pretty much the full range of expiriences common in todays world. Inter species reproduction is possible,and therefore merely takes on the tones of interracial relationships common today. The second is epic science fiction. This type explores mythological subjects in a new context. Examples of this are StarWars and Dune. Generally most of the story line deals with larger societal effects than interpersonal relationships. Personal relationships are generaly used as a vehicle for political intregue, and donot gereraly step over into the bedroom. The third type is what I like to call "mental experiment" science fiction. Much of what is normaly called "hard SF" lives here, but there are other gendres aswell. This is a pretty broad range and can be as uncomplicated as the movie "OutLand" were the world is like a 1980s innercity surrounded with high tech, or as advant-guarde as Aldeas Huxley's "brave new would, were noboby is born outside of artificial wombs. I think the creaters of starfrontiers wanted as diverse a gaming expirience as possible. I would tend to agree with Ellzii on this. There would be different laws depending on what culture is prevelent in a particular star system. Star law being the "feds" would probably only get involved if there was obvious crimes attached to a behavior. Such as the sex slave trade that prostitution frequently turns into. Outside of that the local law enforcers woud be on there own. Some planets were artificial wombs are common may have banned sex as a vector for disease, or they could have gone the other way as sex becomes an exclusively recreational act. That brings us to the two primary attitudes towards sexuality: The first is that it is for procreation. In systems were this philosophy is in dominance acceptible behavior would tend towards modest dress, most sexual acts being in the confines of comitted relationships, and interspecies sex being confined to conbinations that have a chance of naturaly producing viable offspring. The second is that it is for pleasure.In systems were this is the dominant feeling, practicaly anything goes. Whole industries are available for the exploration of the next thrill. Some laws would be in effect to maintain some order. I don't think any society would allow sexual acts to get in way of proper traffic flow, but there are examples of societies that were very sex-centered. The ancient Greeks had sacred prostetutes and effegies of male genitalia in every square. I would tend to think the average campiagn would involve an attitude to sex in line with what we have today, except for an unspoken rule that different species that cant naturaly produce children together should not be publicaly recognized as mates. What goes on behind closed doors is an other matter. I also agree with AZ-GAMER I don't think rules are needed for this as a focus on sex inverialbly would drag the rest of the storyline down. If you are insistant on rules there is already a OGL compliant source called "The Book of Erotic Fantasy" by Kestral and Scott you can modify. Sex androids would probably be multi functional robots with a special modification. If people knew you had one the reaction would probably be the same as our society hase toward those with those blow up dolls. Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
 August 1, 2010 - 2:54pm | Never had to game the subject as most of my players were blast happy loons always looking to shoot the next target. Of course when a movie like Star Wars first came out and we found Star Frontiers some time after that we didn't notice it. Now we watch the scene in Star Wars where they get out of the trash compactor and we see "Hey, Princess Leia is bouncing!" So our games generally go no not in front of the young one. I would only add in sex robots if some PC was out to look for that sort of thing, which you would have thought would have happened after a movie like 'Blade Runner'. I mean the pleasure model replicants were made for that very use. Having read and seen a lot of sci-fi there can be a lot of different planetary cultures out there if you can think oof how to rationalize them, some of which would be a very taboo nature. But I've never had to make many for detailed role play, but had to come up with one or two on the fly using ideas from else where. Including a matriarchal society that came into being through neccesity, I mean females have to pick up the slack and gender roles change drastically when a genocidal nutjob orders the male population slaughtered. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
 August 2, 2010 - 12:44pm | I prefer to keep much of this sort of thing out of my campaigns. It usually leads to cheese and other forms of wasted time. However, I could see a seduction situation being possible leading to some PER checks and whatnot. But overall, I don't play RPGs for any kind sexual scenario. I'd much rather blow some stuff up - with explosives and weapons. |
 August 4, 2010 - 6:35am | "performance check", Indeed! GM says, "You have rolled poorly." NPC comments, "Is that all?"  Well first off: rules for perfomance check- here's how that would play out in the real world if you had a gamer who lives vicariously through his character: He'd max out the ability/skill that would be tied to that and then brag/drone on about his sexual exploits through that character and how he made an Andorean Sex Slave have 8 orgasms in one session of love making and how the last was epic since he rolled a 100. I've already experience this sort of thing and lived through hearing about the exploits of PC X dealing with normal RPG stuff if I ever had to listen to it for sexual conquest I'd have to kill myself. It seems that the concensus is that much of this is plot hook material. No doubt that among this group we're all or at least mostly mature gamers and we expect a little but I think the game should reflect the purpose for which we play it: a little bit of escapism and imagining ourselves as our PC doing larger than life things ie action, and blowing things up, and for those who imagine themselves more of a McGuiver type solving riddles and over coming static problems with bailing wire and duct tape. You also have to, as GM, be aware of what your group's dynamics are, is one member on the religious side? then maybe the grittier stuff needs to be toned down or handled carefuly. Is one member on the depraved woman hating side who views women as sex objects? then you could have a bit more grit and it might appeal to him. (I've had both of the above in my games). However even with someone who is on the religious side sex themes could still be great hooks- his reaction to rape or something else could be counted on to produce results in the PC- the PC steps in to save the person being raped only to discover its a sex android- now he has trouble with the business that owns the android as well as the patron or the patron's family if they killed him. genetic engineering is a SF staple and certainly great grist for story fodder. I would becarful with the birth defects issue. While a SF society that kills off defectives for the greater good is plausible you have to consider the players- birth defects are not that uncommon and they have touched my family and friends and if I was in a game with a heavy atmosphere of grit that involved the "killing of defectives" I'd be looking for an excuse to leave as that is just not my cup of tea and would leave a bad taste in my mouth. I have been known to produce a fake magazine for my players: Frontier Ordinance, Popular Technology, Play Robot, The formula for the magazine is appropriate artwork (usually stolen from around the web) a new item of equipment that is now considered to be available in the campaign, and some setting fluff that contains a clue or foreshadowing about whats coming up. Few people (none) have actually read these carefully so while I think they're a great idea and prop I'm uncertain if in reality they're worthwile. Play Robot was fun- I searched for a bunch of sexy robot art (lot of PG-13 rated art out there that can be used) and used that to make play boy mag but for those with a robot fetish I even included a centerfold. The new item of equipment is presented as a product review. in this way I can say only AD equipment list if available but add new goodies to the game every 2-3 sessions in a James Bond going to see M sort of way. I think the real watch word here is what are you and your group comfortable with and stick to that. In no way do you want to blow out a group with people leaving becase they are uncomfortable with the content. So that said sex might be best handled off screen: characters kiss and screen fades to black when it comes back the characters are laying in bed smoking a cigarette and talking. I'm not in favor of 2 different aliens having sex and producing children- look at the mule- sterile offspring of horse and donkey and those 2 are related on the evolutionary tree. I just dont see any of the core 4 producing cross breeds at all- if this was a fantasy genre then that be something else. However, I had thought to that you could have 2 aliens bond as life mates- they may or may not be able to gratify each other sexually but its the person that they love not the plumbing. I would consider 2 NPCs that own a tramp freighter and have a life mate bond but are say yazirian and human. There may be sex between them but its never "on screen" and the bond could certainly figure into the game as a plot hook. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 August 4, 2010 - 6:35pm | I prefer the subtext way of dealing with such issues, the way movies of old dealt with them. A female PC has a very masculine-looking anthropomorphic robot with common service programming, as it serves her like a butler, but then it does not have a docking station in her quarters. Questions arise as to its design and what other functions it serves, but nothing is every stated on the subject. Like above, one of the players brags of his sexual exploits that occurred between adventures. One PC is a prostitute or "courtesan" and never shares their exploits, though they may be seen occasionally taking a "chosen" prospect to their quarters. One less cooth PC, in character for them, may make a rude comment. A male and female PC are man and wife, it is, of course, assumed that they "do it", but no special attention is given to it. A plothook could be made in which their relationship is challenged by the incursion of another male or female who usurps the time of one of them. What's going on while they're together? The Ref could dictate that the two are aware that their being alone together could be interpreted badly and a PER or LDR roll is required for both to hide their nervous reactions to the estranged mate. The mate then might have to make a PER check to withhold jealousy. A relationship could be implied to blossom between one PC and an NPC when they end up spending a lot of time together, and flirting could ensue, but there's no need to go into details. Perhaps a kiss may be stated if it serves a plot device, such as using the person to advance an agenda in Bond fashion. But like a Bond film, there's no need to have a long love-making scene, which is pretty vulgar and immature no matter what the ratio of men to women in the group. I personally don't care much for hormones raging at the game table. It seems to me to be a teenage phenomenon. I should hope adults have moved past that. A fat, horny 40-year-old man is not my idea of a good gamer. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
August 4, 2010 - 8:23pm | I personally don't care much for hormones raging at the game table. It seems to me to be a teenage phenomenon. I should hope adults have moved past that. A fat, horny 40-year-old man is not my idea of a good gamer. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 August 5, 2010 - 3:32pm | It's all background info for me, no need to make it front line material in a campaign. Yes, eventually the PCs wind up with "mates". Game on long enough and you start looking at second generation family members just to get away from palying maxed-out characters, yet still carry on similar character personality traits (with new twists). Back in high school/college, one of my campaigns was a "bad guys" group who acquired a smaller gunned starliner. The crew/proprietors hired "special service girls" from all four races and pimped them out on each voyage to the passengers. It was a business venture, just not the kind of starship venture the writers had in mind when they penned the KH Campaign Book. And even as not-mature high school/college kids, we never saw the need to bring that kind role-play into the front lines, rather it was a means to earn some (il)legitimate income as well as the occasional plot hook where a naer-do-well might try to take over or muscle in on the action. "Surveillance cameras depict NPC/passenger # (random die roll) 94 mingles with several of the call girls, finally selecting girl # (random die roll) 15. He enters her cabin and doesn't depart for another three hours. The girl does not report in to the bridge with her earnings, do you want to send someone investigate her cabin?" Although it was fun rendering sketches of the "girls"...there's something to be said for a she-vrusk wearing thigh-high mesh stockings or a dralasite in a bustier. And that's as twisted as it ever got. |
August 6, 2010 - 3:32am | "performance check", Indeed! GM says, "You have rolled poorly." NPC comments, "Is that all?" This is not even a d20 game, and someone passed his "innuendo check".  - In my game, the core worlds are decadent. Mega-Corporations have spent years selling sex and beauty to the public. Cosmetic surgery & gen-therapy, and recreational sex & drug-use is common on these worlds. On the other hand, the frontier worlds are a "wretched hive of scum and villainy". Prostitution and rape are more common on these worlds. Where both worlds meet, is in space. Space has the trappings of both worlds, but not as extreme. The closed-in environment and mix-cultures requires folks to mind their own business, and not be so judgmental. Substance-abuse and inter-office relationships are generally frowned on with professional ships as it could effect the operations of a ship, but personal sexual diversions and one-off relationships are encouraged to burn-off the edge of a long trip. Most professional fleets issue some basic "diversions", but crew are encouraged to provide their own stuff as long as it dont take too much space - which usually gets traded with other crew-members (like dirty magazines on a sub). Dralasites have no concept of lust, but they still enjoy a good (really terrible) dirty joke. They also have an unusual obsession with large breasts (or jello for that matter). When they see them bounce, they go into a loud laughing fit (which they bob up & down, and make a gurgling sound like Cousin It). This is seen as apart of the strange humor of their race. Vrusks express their love by making artwork, and poems that only makes sense in their own language. They also enjoy a type of sound that annoys the hearing of other races, but they find it highly erotic. Their ways are so subtle, Humans consider them to be a bland and overly rational race. Yazirians are traditionally immodest, and learned modesty through humans. They mostly do this to fit in human society, but once in their own homes, they usually get more "traditional." Its considered rude for guests (regardless of race) to enter without undressing first. Relationships between Yazirians is loud, complex, and to Humans it seems somewhat aggressive - in that feisty, old-couple way. |
August 6, 2010 - 1:28pm | @ Malcadon: your last post is great material for the core 4 project I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
August 6, 2010 - 4:42pm | Just came across this gaming blog with the topic of SEX http://www.abuliasavant.com/?p=144 I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
August 6, 2010 - 8:05pm | @ Malcadon: your last post is great material for the core 4 project Thanks! My idea for the non-human races came from reading the short descriptions from the basic AD booklet. With the Vrusks, I wanted to highlight their complex yet misunderstood sexuality. I wanted to highlight the waning primal nature of the Yazarian culture. As for Dralasites, I wanted to make them the most wildly immature race in the universe, because that is what I find so interesting about them. I have them a race that prefers other races to communicate more through belching and farting, for example. |
August 7, 2010 - 3:21am | @ Malcadon: your last post is great material for the core 4 project Thanks! My idea for the non-human races came from reading the short descriptions from the basic AD booklet. With the Vrusks, I wanted to highlight their complex yet misunderstood sexuality. I wanted to highlight the waning primal nature of the Yazarian culture. As for Dralasites, I wanted to make them the most wildly immature race in the universe, because that is what I find so interesting about them. I have them a race that prefers other races to communicate more through belching and farting, for example. Imagine a seriously immature human with a crew of dralasites? Wait the official game setting had a human with a crew of dralasites: Flytrapper's former crew in Dramune Run was all dralasites. Wonder about his maturity and the dynamic of that crew. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 August 9, 2010 - 9:15am | Whoa! Dralasites are not related to Gloop and Gleep. We are a very mature race with a highly developed sense of humor and art. Our debate and philosophical skills are unmatched among the known races of the universe. Please note that we do not have our brains confined in a hard calcium cage. We are truly free! -iggy |
August 9, 2010 - 1:37pm | In my games they are a bit goofy because I what them that way. As for philosophical debates, I have that as a cultural pastime as noted in the advanced rulebook. |
August 9, 2010 - 2:43pm | Maybe you think you want us that way (goofy). Maybe we have convinced you to think this way to serve our own purposes. -iggy |
 August 11, 2010 - 10:55pm | I personally don't care much for hormones raging at the game table. It seems to me to be a teenage phenomenon. I should hope adults have moved past that. A fat, horny 40-year-old man is not my idea of a good gamer. OMG! I just shot diet choke outta mah nose! lmao. (whew...okay) One of my male players would always try to smooze with any female NPC he bumped into. Normally just to keep the game moving, I'd have her slap his Yazirian chops (PS + 1) or throw her bizarre alien rum & fizz on his skeinsuit. But after awhile, I was like... okay fine, and they had a relationship for the next I don't remember amount of adventures. I mean, sexuality is a real life thing so bringing it into your campaign makes sense if a PC pushes the idea. But I don't spend a sizeable amount of time with it. There's fighting to do; ships that need killing & stuff. Besides, how many credits IS a dozen roses? My SF website izz: http://ragnarr.webs.com |
August 11, 2010 - 11:27pm | Besides, how many credits IS a dozen roses? All-and-all, it might be cheaper and easier to rent then then own, until you have the time and energy for a long-term investment. |
August 12, 2010 - 4:15pm | All-and-all, it might be cheaper and easier to rent then then own, until you have the time and energy for a long-term investment. ...and I know just the star liner to recommend. |
