 July 24, 2010 - 5:22am | I was watching the documentary on the B29 frozen in time (it landed in the artic and the crew were rescued after 3 days) a test pilot who had flown U2s and SR71s wanted to fix it and fly it out (being one of only a handful of B29s left it would have been extremely valuable. That got me thinking about hundreds of aircraft parked in the desert and I ask myself would not the UPF have the save thing? During a war there is a build up and extra hulls put into service but after the war they amount to too many to maintain and operate on a peace time budget. Since Morgaines World is sort of a military reservation perhaps they have a dry lake bed they land excess shuttles, assault scouts, and frigates at. just having the hulls built will shorten the time to get dozens of extra hulls into service should another shooting war go down. I would expect that frigates would need a gantry built to stablize them in a vertical position. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 July 24, 2010 - 8:19am | Cool, Why not an Orbital Bone yard for larger hulls too? Put it at an out of the way system where there is little traffic. The bombing starts in five minutes. |
 July 24, 2010 - 9:27am | This is a great thought. I know that these bone yard residents are heavily stripped down, but having a team crash land on one would be a cool addition to a story. However, I too think that they would most likely stored in orbit somewhere circling some lone moon outpost or something. This would make it more efficient to store and retrieve them since there is no need to lift them off of a planet surface. Also, it would negate the need of support structures for large hulled ships. These objects would be valuable too for those enterprising individuals. Thus, a small detachment or craft would be required to keep the thieves away. |
 July 24, 2010 - 10:00am | Shadow has a great write up on the sf.org site (Shadow, hope you don't mind me posting). I plan on submitting to the webzine. :-) Boneyard Station Richard “Shadow Shack” Rose Triad's moon (Evergleem) hosts the orbital station "Boneyard", spinning gracefully and playing host to spacers from around the Frontier seeking used spaceships and parts. Owned and operated by the vruskan entrepreneur S'ta-Rat'l (aka "Shat Rat"), this orbiting junkyard of salvaged space ship hulls and components has become an overnight success story and an invaluable resource to down on their luck spacers. Shat Rat offers daily shuttle service from both Evergleem and Triad. A one way ticket costs 500Cr or a round trip 800Cr from Evergleem, and 750/1200Cr from Triad. In addition Shat Rat's offers affordable room and board during any stay at Boneyard Station. Shuttle fare can be waived, being applicable toward any purchases made. (...more to appear in the webzine) |
July 24, 2010 - 7:30pm | First off an orbital bone yard would be a target by the sathar if they were going to pull the trigger again One high speed pass what was the point of having an orbital bone yard? Though that might make a senario for KHs Sathar objective: destroy orbiting hulls gains victiory points, destroying active defenders no victory points or half Defender's objective: preserve hulls or destroy the sathar It is true enough that an orbiting bone yard would be convient but I think in a frontier rife with sathar agents it would hit the list of opening objectives for a new full blown shooting war Though anything a destoryer size or larger would have to be orbited I just that they'd go to the trouble to land assault scouts and even frigate (despite the need for frigates to probably be supported by a gantry) just for security issues Plus I just like the idea of a "forest" of stripped hulls in a barren area of a planet-something about it appeals to the artist in me- either as a image or as a adventure location. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 July 25, 2010 - 10:36am | Make the orbiting one inside (or even on the outside) of a small asteroid. There is practially no gravity to speak of and you could even land a HS 20 ship on the surface without any serious damage to the thing. Just set it down and tie it off with some tethering lines. As an example, Deimos, the smaller moon of Mars is probably just a captured asteroid. With an average diamer of 12 km, its surface gravity is 0.00084 m/s^2 or 0.000085g. Gravity is so low on Deimos that you could literally jump off the moon and achieve escape velocity. You'd probably want something just a little bigger as your boneyard asteroid but the point is it would be completely doable. The simplest form would be to just land everything on the surface. If you wanted to, you could also hollow it out and then you could hide the hulks from prying eyes. Of course, you'd have to do something with all that rock, but that's just logistics. If the asteroid has some valuable mineral the whole thing could be disguised as a mining operation. Or maybe it started as a mining operation and then got converted. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
July 25, 2010 - 10:51am | Since Morgaine's World is supposed to be ringed, there is a good chance it is going to have small "shepherd moons" in its ring system like those found in the ring systems of the giant planets in the solar system. These are objects of comparable size with the moons of Mars and would work just fine for something like this. This gives you a surface installation to work from plus you are surrounded by the core of the UPF Spacefleet. Task Force Prenglar is always around, Nova stops by occasionally plus you have Gollywin acadamy and the UPF Fortress here (can't remember the name off the top of my head) to provide defense. One of these small moonlets would provide an excellent location for a UPF boneyard. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 July 25, 2010 - 3:10pm | I like the idea of using a small moon or large asteroid. You can just drop ships on the suffice, and the gravity is low enough to move ships off the surface. I don't like the idea of dropping them on a normal planet, because of the higher gravity, and an Atmo could cause structural erosion and decay over time. |
July 25, 2010 - 5:04pm | Certainly using an asteroid or small moon to tether ships as a bone yard sounds idea One question though How much damage would you expect from collisions with other debris in a ring? Another question: with stasis screen technology would it not be likely that it could be used to freeze equipment in time? I dont see it being used for anything larger than a fighter. Of course power requirements could be the snag on this. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 25, 2010 - 5:23pm | I have no idea on the collisions. The shepherd moons in our solar system are actually outside the rings they are "shepherding". It is gravitational interactions between the ring particles and the moons that keep the rings in line. So I imagine the collision rate is fairly low. However, that could be another reason for burrowing into the moon. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
July 26, 2010 - 7:51pm | Yeah I love the idea and... one of Morgaine's World's moons is listed as having a military use..... kind of makes it easy to designate it a shepard moon for the rings and the site of the bone yard. I would go on to say that the UPF would very tightly control the space around this planet and that non military traffic would be confined to narrow lanes. the bone yard on the moon called White would also be a controlled secret. Quite possible the bone yard on the surface of the planet would be for show. kind of like the surprise that a french man riding his bicycle got during WW2 when he happend upon a fade tank brigade of american soldiers who had inflated tanks and would pretending to be the real deal for the Germans when the French man witnessed 2 GIs lift and move a tank. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
July 26, 2010 - 9:03pm | one of Morgaine's World's moons is listed as having a military use..... I love it when a plan comes together.  I didn't know that but sure enough it is designated as such in the Zeb's Guide description of the system. Shows you how often I crack open my Zeb's Guide .Very cool. I think we just discovered the location of the hidden UPF scrapyard. But they deny it. It's a conspiracy, I tell you, a conspiracy!  Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
July 26, 2010 - 9:45pm | one of Morgaine's World's moons is listed as having a military use..... I love it when a plan comes together. I didn't know that but sure enough it is designated as such in the Zeb's Guide description of the system. Shows you how often I crack open my Zeb's Guide .Very cool. I think we just discovered the location of the hidden UPF scrapyard. But they deny it. It's a conspiracy, I tell you, a conspiracy! so what other points of dis-interest does the UPF maintain on Morgaine's World? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 July 27, 2010 - 12:41pm | When I was doing satellite design and did my course in the space environment it was strongly pointed out that space is harsh on materials. The exposure to high energy solar radiation degrades the structure on materials. An atom blasted away here, another there, and soon the material becomes weak. Hence why we fly rad hard electronics. Blast away a few electrons and your transistors are no longer transistors (permanent hardware bug created). This is why Hubble needs some of it's repairs and why weather satellites are replace at the rate they are. Anyway, I see the hollowed out asteroid and shepard moon ideas as the most likely for high value military ships. They proved natural radiation shielding without energy needs for screens. Plus you can literally lock them inside. -iggy |
July 28, 2010 - 9:04am | Iggy, Nice observation. Found this to be interesting. We'll start a fund and put the first Star Frontiersman in orbit! DIY Kit Puts Satellites Into Orbit for $8,000 |
July 28, 2010 - 9:59am | You'll have to print on microfilm since the satellite is only the size of a one liter bottle. Otherwise that is pretty cools if they can pull it off. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
July 28, 2010 - 6:36pm | Iggy, Nice observation. Found this to be interesting. We'll start a fund and put the first Star Frontiersman in orbit! DIY Kit Puts Satellites Into Orbit for $8,000 Great! more junk in orbit... that all the other useless trash not SF per se. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 August 2, 2010 - 12:48pm | Yeah I am more for the floating boneyard as well. The ground boneyard reminds me of that (mediocre) movie with Kurt Russell: "Soldier". It could be done that way, but zero grav just sounds easier to manage. |
August 4, 2010 - 8:49pm | If I might hijack my own thread a little on Earth we take old ships and use them for target practice, array them around an island to see what the effects of a nuclear blast will be on them or we take them out and sink them to create reefs, or make them into floating museums How would old hulls be used in the Frontier? automated and decked out with scientific widgets to the max and flown into a black hole as a disposable probe? landed and stripped and made into expedient housing in the early days of a colony? turned into a low budget orbiting space lab/ station? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
August 5, 2010 - 11:40am | Orbiting military grave yard for UPF veterans. -iggy |
 August 6, 2010 - 4:39am | If I might hijack my own thread a little on Earth we take old ships and use them for target practice, array them around an island to see what the effects of a nuclear blast will be on them or we take them out and sink them to create reefs, or make them into floating museums How would old hulls be used in the Frontier? automated and decked out with scientific widgets to the max and flown into a black hole as a disposable probe? landed and stripped and made into expedient housing in the early days of a colony? turned into a low budget orbiting space lab/ station? Yes. Yes. Yes. and Yes. More seriously, I recall something in the KH manual in the section about ship maintenance about how the constant exposure to the radiation is space will eventually make the ship unusable. A bone yard would need to provide some shelter from the radiation to be useful. Perhaps orbiting some world or moon isn't the best place for it. Maybe there's someplace in the emptiness of deep space that is better for preserving old ships (from both deterioration and security standpoints). Just food for thought. The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
August 6, 2010 - 1:06pm | More seriously, I recall something in the KH manual in the section about ship maintenance about how the constant exposure to the radiation is space will eventually make the ship unusable. A bone yard would need to provide some shelter from the radiation to be useful. Perhaps orbiting some world or moon isn't the best place for it. Maybe there's someplace in the emptiness of deep space that is better for preserving old ships (from both deterioration and security standpoints). Just food for thought. I seem to remember that there is radiation coming at the solar system from the center of the milky way and that the solar wind from our sun pushes back on this to create a bubble around the solar system other wise we'd not be able to live here so the depths of space may not be that suitable- hollowed out small moon may be the best bet or a stasis field. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
August 8, 2010 - 6:26am | Nice work Az New thought Rather than try to hollow out a planetoid/moon/asteroid to store a ship long term and portect it from radiation why not construct a modular latice frame work that would enclose a ship in a long box like structure. Then make large panels that are double walled and filled with left over rock from the refining process of asteroid minin, Attach the panels to the latice and whala you've encase a ship in rock in a modular fashion that lets you rack stack and pack ship hulls in a way that protects them from radiation and surely it would be less work and easier to use. At any time you can attach more latice work and add more panels Adventure Idea: a former UPF enlisted crew men (according to the book they are little better than riff raft) hid something while he was aboard ship but got into trouble and sent to prison for his sins. He has now been released from prison and dishonorably discharge but he's looking for some help to get about the UPF ship which is now in the bone yard powered down and partially stripped. He's certain that the "thing" he hid hasn't been found or he'd know about it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
August 9, 2010 - 9:21am | This reminds me of the Morgan Freeman movie where he tells the younger inmate where he hid the cash in a wall by a tree. I love this idea. This is a perfect adventure setup. I also like the idea of using mining tailings to build the shelter. I would image that the production of millions of small pieces of rocky debris would be a hazard to space travel. As such mines would be required to manage their waste. This is a perfect usage of the waste, build with it! -iggy |
August 9, 2010 - 5:25pm | Iggy, you're thinking of Shawshank Redemption, and its the other way around. Tim Robbins' character breaks out and leaves money under that tree so Morgan Freeman can join him in Mexico when he's finally free. But still a good hook. ;) The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
August 10, 2010 - 7:58pm | .... Shawshank Redemption...... theres another idea to kick around in another thread- dont get me started..... I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
August 11, 2010 - 6:10pm | Tom, I'm putting you on hold, for now. hehe. AZ, Thanks for the artwork. |
 August 25, 2010 - 1:15pm | on Earth we take old ships and use them for target practice, array them around an island to see what the effects of a nuclear blast will be on them or we take them out and sink them to create reefs, or make them into floating museums In my Star Fighter Acadamy game, there is an obstacle course with old hulks used for simulated target practice that doubles as a museum when not in use. Some of the hulls are relics from the first sathar war, some predate that, and others are more recent. As far as a boneyard goes, I have mine orbiting Triad's moon (Evergleem). It's a space station with a triple wide hub extending out past the ring on each side. The first hub is a docking bay, the middle hub is a construction area with salvaged hulls awaiting purchase etc and the third is the "parts pile". A small contingent of freight haulers serves as a salvage fleet, the largest ship being HS:18 and capable of hauling anything up to 300m in length (HS:12 hulls) and the rest in the HS:5-8 range that pretty much stake claims on hulls and acquire odds and ends in their holds. |
