FTL speeds

CleanCutRogue's picture
CleanCutRogue
August 16, 2007 - 4:31am

I am personally no fan of there existing a second dimension... voidspace/hyperspace/etc.  Never liked it.  It was odd to me that in so much fiction such a "different dimension" exists and only for travel.  It just screams hokey.

On the other hand, I really like the oversimplified Alpha Dawn approach.  I didn't try to explain it, didn't need to overanalyze it.  In AD: ships went 1LY per day when they were going FTL.  Period.  No explanation was given as to how they reached those speeds, nor how they slowed down.  The rate of travel was fixed, and wasn't a factor of ship size or anything.

I personally developed rules around Alpha Dawn's concept.  Once Knight Hawks came out, I enjoyed it for its campaign elements, and played its tactical board game, but mostly ignored it for my FTL space travel.

I surmised that FTL travel is fixed because of some existing astrophysical limitation that even the greatest minds of the five independent races could never overcome, though they work on it and experiment on it still.  Differences in ship design won't change the speed of ships once they invoke their FTL drives, but will vary the amount of time they may spend at FTL speeds safely.  Larger, more powerful, ships can sustain lots more FTL before needing overhauled, while smaller ships might need overhauled after every FTL voyage.  Not overhauling results in a percent chance (that increases with each voyage thereafter) of the ship becoming damaged, losing functionality of one or more of its sub-systems, or worse.  In my simple rules, FTL speed was just a relied on technology that works and I never bothered with such issues as acceleration times (though I did require people to be strapped in when making the transition from STL to FTL or back, and the special seats were equipped with inertia-dampening fields).  When a FTL drive was invoked in my games, it wasn't spectacular or full of special effects: it was a burst of acceleration that lasted a minute or so and then you reached this spacial terminal velocity of 1LY per day and that was that.  Deceleration back to STL speeds was the same.  Ships shook and act like they're protesting the burden.  Some people puked.  Basically it was like take off or landing a 747 in Montana.

3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

-top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack

Comments:

Methuselas's picture
Methuselas
August 16, 2007 - 12:22pm

Well, FTL travel is still under the same principles, but they've been modified.  I'll give you a brief rundown on the current FTL technology available to the Frontier.

 Atomics - Old and antiquated, these drives are still commonly used throughout the Frontier. Atomics follow the original rules of th KH Game and require overhauling and risk jumping. Atomics have a speed of X1LY/Day

 Hyperdrive -  Hyperdrive Generators were created by Dral and Vrusk scientists and work by creating a bubble around the ship and shifting the vessel into the Void. Hyperdrives require NavComputers and overhauling, though not nearly as frequent as Atomics. Currently, all hyperdrives have coordinates for each, major system of the frontier encoded, so there is no risk jumping, between known systems. A hyperdrive generator's mass increases dramatically, due to the size of the ship. Hyperdrive Generators have a speed of .5 -X10LY/DAY. If a hyperdrive is damaged and rendered inoperable, unless the vessel has a backup, it is limited to STL travel.

Stargate - Stargate technology was created by Yazirians and is almost exclusively used in Yazirian space. Stargates are large energy conductors that are designed to jump ships between two or more, predefined Stargates, using frontier-made wormholes. Ships using a stargate require no FTL drive, as the stargate itself uses its own energy to fling the ship to another location, but if either stargate is destroyed, while a ship is in transit, the vessel is lost. Stargate travel has a speed of x1LY/Day

Fold Drives - Fold Drives were created by Human and Dral scientists, by creating a spatial well around the ship and moving it from one point to another, by merging the two points in space, together. Fold drives use a massive coil which is charged in order to jump the ship and jump coordinates must be updated every 30 minutes, to account for spacial drift. Fold drives require maintenance and are very susceptible to risk jumping. Ships with Fold Drives require NAVComputers for the enormous computations required for jumps. Fold Drives have enourmous, energy requirements to charge the Fold Coil and once fired, requires time to recharge. Fold drives have a speed of x1LY/Day, but unlike all other means of FTL travel, the travel time seems to be mere instantaneous. Though, the jump takes several days, to the passengers and crew, it seemed less than a minute.

Warp Drive - Warp Drives were created by Human scientists and using experimental anti-matter drive cores, hyperaccelerating ships faster than the speed of light. The current maximum speed of Warp Travel is Warp 4. For each Warp level, the ship moves at X1 the speed of light. (ie, Warp 2 is twice the speed of light, Warp 3 is 3 times the speed of light, etc.). Warp Drives are susceptible to drive explosions, require constant maintenance and every jump above Warp 1 is a risk jump, doubling the risk, for each higher warp speed. Only ships of Hull Size 10 ore more can be mounted with Warp Drives.

 

Hope that helps. 

Using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.

Anonymous's picture
Corjay (not verified)
August 16, 2007 - 12:35pm
Works for me, though I've never been a fan of warp propulsion. It's more voodoo than any of the others.

Methuselas's picture
Methuselas
August 16, 2007 - 12:44pm

Corjay wrote:
Works for me, though I've never been a fan of warp propulsion. It's more voodoo than any of the others.

 

One of the reasons I made it complete piles of ^@^$. ;P

 

I should point out that *ONE* of these should be for Sathar, besides Atomic. I was actually thinking of Warp Drive, but when I hashed out thee rules, a few years ago, I was playing with people who showed up for a game, in Starfleet uniforms, after a Con. The wanted Warp Drive.

 

No, I'm not kidding.


 

area in red edited for content :-)  -Bill Logan

Using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.

Anonymous's picture
Corjay (not verified)
August 16, 2007 - 12:39pm
LOL

Methuselas's picture
Methuselas
August 16, 2007 - 12:57pm
Although, having Sathar have the ability to use wormholes could be *REALLY* nasty, for the frontier..... O_O
Using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.

Anonymous's picture
Corjay (not verified)
August 16, 2007 - 1:22pm
Yeah, they definitely need a stable form of transport and nothing so broadly destructive as a warp core breach.

CleanCutRogue's picture
CleanCutRogue
August 16, 2007 - 4:53pm

Sathar look like walking worms anyway... give them serpentine ships able to maneuver the complex passages of a wormhole because of their segmented construction, the only ships to be able to do so effectively. Depending on the properties of wormholes in your ruleset, it might give them a tremendous edge to get past perimeter defenses, and maybe they're able to use those wormholes to direct their mind control so they can extend control over their brainwashed spies from their own space, but only when the wormholes align properly and then only for very specific short mental commands.

Not a fan of Warp drive just because of the images of Star Trek it brings up...

I like that most of your technologies are approx 1LY per day. Because of the size of the Frontier, it really is a decent speed of travel. (random thought: Nobody ever made daily encounter tables for space travel...)

Love the fold drive time dilation. Neat way to make it unique. Spacers who use it regularly will feel imortal. Traveling from point A to point B.... does the ship actually pass through the space between? Is it possible to get on an intercept course with a fold-driven vessel? To halt its passage? Attack it?

 

3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

-top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


Methuselas's picture
Methuselas
August 16, 2007 - 8:03pm

To be honest, I hate Warp Drives. I really do. Like I said, though, when you only have Trekkie RPGers, you do what you can, to keep a game going. If we dropped it, I wouldn't have a problem with that, at all.

 

As for Fold Drives, think of the explaination Sam Neil gave in Event Horizion. Basically, it works just like it does in Battlestar Galactica (the new one). There's a bright, flash of light that encompasses the ship and poof, it reappears at its destination. Time passes, but the crew and passengers are completely unaware of it, besides a minor shift, as the drive bends space, for less than a minute.

Using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.

Methuselas's picture
Methuselas
August 16, 2007 - 8:14pm

Oh, I almost forgot. Yes, all drives have a standerd 1LY/Day, except Hyper Drives. The fastest Hyper Drive is " .5 past lightspeed" ;) and the slowest is x1LY/!0Days. That way, a standard hyper drive has 1LY/Day, but a backup drive could be X3 or only getting 1LY/3Days.

 

I hope that clears everything up. Like I said, I *REALLY* need to organize my notes. =/ 

Using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.

Anonymous's picture
Corjay (not verified)
August 16, 2007 - 8:46pm
Thank God for creative minds over technobabel (technobabel in a forum leads to a bunch of stiffs with corn cobbs up their butts discussing the molecular weight of a drop of milk every time someone wants to discuss game mechanics). What you said sounds good to me. On the technical end, I only say make sure your figures are correct about that. :)

CleanCutRogue's picture
CleanCutRogue
August 17, 2007 - 5:35pm

I can't imagine ever wanting a military ship to use anything but a fold drive.  You can't intercept it!  You can't attack it!  You can't set up perimeter defenses against it!  I think they're quite powerful... perhaps too powerful, even with the long delay between jumps to charge the foldcoil.

Some ideas to help balance (please comment on one or all, or come up with some of your own):

  • Fold-travel cannot cross the path of another fold.  The resulting knot can fling both ships into far space, perhaps even flinging them into other ships or planets or stars.  Because of this, a fold-drive relies on comm equipment (which gives your destination away) to coordinate destinations with other ships, and making a fold jump without establishing comms first would run the risk of crossing folds, a percentage chance (independent of the normal misjump percent from risk jumping) of foldcrossing without comms would need to depend on several factors: distance, passage of your line of travel through an established starroute on the star map, etc.
  • Fold drives cannot be charged with time and energy alone... they need something special.  For example: orbiting a star and collecting ion particles, etc.  If you fold-jump to a destination that has no such star, you travel STL until you get to such a star.
  • The fold coils can't hold their charge longer than it takes to charge them.  For example: a huge ship with a large fold drive might take xx turns to charge.  On the xx+1 turn, the coil breaks down and discharges a messy ion cloud, needing recharged.  This ion cloud might be usable as cover or as a masking screen... or might be susceptible to igniting if a proton beam is fired into it and be dangerous to the ship that released it.  A possible damage result from hitting a fold drive might be premature release of its energy.
3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

-top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


Anonymous's picture
Corjay (not verified)
August 17, 2007 - 5:55pm
From what I understand, a fold in space has no space, no volume, not even a line between the two points. So it's impossible for fold paths to intersect for the reason that no fold path exists. It's described as a "fold" because you are meeting one point in the universe to another point in the universe like folding a piece of paper in half, making two points on the paper meet.

CleanCutRogue's picture
CleanCutRogue
August 17, 2007 - 7:48pm

I understand this fact, but I'm envisioning that the act of joining the two points through spacefolding requires some sort of field effect to establish the fold, whose field could accidentally cross another's field.  I don't know... it just seems too powerful and I feel we have to balance it.  think about it: a mode of travel (even though I think it's cool) that nobody can intercept, nobody can catch up to, nobody can create perimeter defenses against, etc.  There would be no such thing as trade embargos or blockades, no need for smuggling because nobody could stop the traders from trading anywhere they want, etc.  People teleporting anywhere they want regardless of political or military positioning...

I know the field coil takes time to charge (which is a decent limitation as it is) but I think it's still militarily overpowered.  All forms of space combat become guerilla tactic surprises... 

3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

-top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


Anonymous's picture
Corjay (not verified)
August 17, 2007 - 7:52pm
Maybe there can be a drawback to it that makes it either more dangerous or less reliable without compromising the physics of it.

Methuselas's picture
Methuselas
August 20, 2007 - 4:31am

Only UPF Military vessels have Fold Drives. It's Military Technology.

The Maximum jump for a ship is 5 light years if hull sized 5 or higher. The Maximum jump for hull size 4 or less is 3 light years. That means a ship will have to make *SEVERAL* jumps to reach its destination. Fleets of various sizes move the maximum speed of the slowest ship.

Fold Drives have *ENORMOUS* energy usage requirements. A Fold Drive uses 100SEU per Light Year, times the Hull Size of the ship. So, a battleship making a 5LY jump requires (100 x5 x 20) or 10,000 SEU per jump. Just as an example, the battleship would require 3, Type 4 generators to have enough energy for one jump and it would be at least another hour before it even had enough energy to spin the Fold Coil, just to make another jump. As you can see, while Fold Technology is incredible, it has its drawbacks.

Add in the energy requirements for weapons, shields and other items of note, you realize that coordinated jumps are next to impossible during battle and without careful conservation of energy, you can be a sitting duck, no matter how impressive Fold Drives are.

Oh, I should also point out that a jump requires an Astrogation roll, to even be successful and if it fails, the coil's energy is all used up and must be "spun" again.

Using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.

Will's picture
Will
October 7, 2007 - 7:35pm
Corjay wrote:
Works for me, though I've never been a fan of warp propulsion. It's more voodoo than any of the others.


All the FTL drive systems advanced by SF are "voodoo," but most of the FTL theories are based, in some part, on warping spacetime, even if it's just to open a rift.

Personally, I like the warpdrive system for SF, simply because it fits seamlessly into the game's existing dynamic.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

Will's picture
Will
October 7, 2007 - 7:39pm
Methuselas wrote:

Corjay wrote:
Works for me, though I've never been a fan of warp propulsion. It's more voodoo than any of the others.


One of the reasons I made it complete piles of shit. ;P


I should point out that *ONE* of  these should be for Sathar, besides Atomic. I was actually thinking of Warp Drive, but when I hashed out thee rules, a few years ago, I was playing with people who showed up for a game, in Starfleet uniforms, after a Con.  The wanted Warp Drive.


No, I'm not kidding.      



The sad part is that E.E. Smith postulated the first warp drive, the Bergenholm from the [i]Lensman[/i] series, with the next fictional universe to adopt the warp drive(as far as I know)being Harrison's "Stainless Steel Rat" universe.

I based the Void engine tech partially on the Bergenholm, BTW.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

Will's picture
Will
October 7, 2007 - 7:43pm
CleanCutRogue wrote:

I can't imagine ever wanting a military ship to use anything but a fold drive.  You can't intercept it!  You can't attack it!  You can't set up perimeter defenses against it!  I think they're quite powerful... perhaps too powerful, even with the long delay between jumps to charge the foldcoil.

Some ideas to help balance (please comment on one or all, or come up with some of your own):

  • Fold-travel cannot cross the path of another fold.  The resulting knot can fling both ships into far space, perhaps even flinging them into other ships or planets or stars.  Because of this, a fold-drive relies on comm equipment (which gives your destination away) to coordinate destinations with other ships, and making a fold jump without establishing comms first would run the risk of crossing folds, a percentage chance (independent of the normal misjump percent from risk jumping) of foldcrossing without comms would need to depend on several factors: distance, passage of your line of travel through an established starroute on the star map, etc.
  • Fold drives cannot be charged with time and energy alone... they need something special.  For example: orbiting a star and collecting ion particles, etc.  If you fold-jump to a destination that has no such star, you travel STL until you get to such a star.
  • The fold coils can't hold their charge longer than it takes to charge them.  For example: a huge ship with a large fold drive might take xx turns to charge.  On the xx+1 turn, the coil breaks down and discharges a messy ion cloud, needing recharged.  This ion cloud might be usable as cover or as a masking screen... or might be susceptible to igniting if a proton beam is fired into it and be dangerous to the ship that released it.  A possible damage result from hitting a fold drive might be premature release of its energy.


I like, but you wouldn't need to establish communication with another fold-ship.

Simply slave it to the ship's radar and/or passive energy sensors(since the heat and radiation pulse created by the fold-drive changing the density of local spacetime can be detected). If they detect another ship about to enter fold-space, your ship's fold drive doesn't engage.

Sort of like the collision avoidance systems used by modern aircraft.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

CleanCutRogue's picture
CleanCutRogue
October 7, 2007 - 7:55pm
Will wrote:
CleanCutRogue wrote:

I can't imagine ever wanting a military ship to use anything but a fold drive. You can't intercept it! You can't attack it! You can't set up perimeter defenses against it! I think they're quite powerful... perhaps too powerful, even with the long delay between jumps to charge the foldcoil.

Some ideas to help balance (please comment on one or all, or come up with some of your own):

  • Fold-travel cannot cross the path of another fold. The resulting knot can fling both ships into far space, perhaps even flinging them into other ships or planets or stars. Because of this, a fold-drive relies on comm equipment (which gives your destination away) to coordinate destinations with other ships, and making a fold jump without establishing comms first would run the risk of crossing folds, a percentage chance (independent of the normal misjump percent from risk jumping) of foldcrossing without comms would need to depend on several factors: distance, passage of your line of travel through an established starroute on the star map, etc.
  • Fold drives cannot be charged with time and energy alone... they need something special. For example: orbiting a star and collecting ion particles, etc. If you fold-jump to a destination that has no such star, you travel STL until you get to such a star.
  • The fold coils can't hold their charge longer than it takes to charge them. For example: a huge ship with a large fold drive might take xx turns to charge. On the xx+1 turn, the coil breaks down and discharges a messy ion cloud, needing recharged. This ion cloud might be usable as cover or as a masking screen... or might be susceptible to igniting if a proton beam is fired into it and be dangerous to the ship that released it. A possible damage result from hitting a fold drive might be premature release of its energy.


I like, but you wouldn't need to establish communication with another fold-ship.

Simply slave it to the ship's radar and/or passive energy sensors(since the heat and radiation pulse created by the fold-drive changing the density of local spacetime can be detected). If they detect another ship about to enter fold-space, your ship's fold drive doesn't engage.

Sort of like the collision avoidance systems used by modern aircraft.
That's quite true.  In fact, being able to detect the impending establishment of a fold might be something that alerts someone to the approach of the vessel - taking away some of the surprise.  Perhaps it's possible to set up spacefold anchors - devices which create a field that prevents establishment of folds to or from that location?  There *MUST* be some way to balance them.
3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

-top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


Will's picture
Will
October 8, 2007 - 8:50am
If you can fold spacetime to cross it, then you can strengthen spacetime to prevent the folding of spacetime.

Also, if the fold-drive is hit and prematurely releases its energy in an uncontrolled fashion, shouldn't that result in the destruction of the ship(quite possibly a few others as well)?

Does the fold-drive require the gravity of a spinning body to work(limiting it to traveling from gravity to gravity) or does it require the ship to be in deep space to operate.

And, what's its area of effect...a small area beyond the skin of the ship or a larger area, or is it large enough to snare other ships in the fold, destroying them as well?   

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

Will's picture
Will
October 8, 2007 - 6:47am
Corjay wrote:
Yeah, they definitely need a stable form of transport and nothing so broadly destructive as a warp core breach.


A warp core breach? You mean one of those dramatic plot devices that all Starfleet vessels are required to have at least once a week, as per regulations?!Laughing

Again, there's a difference between warp drive systems and Star Trek's warp drive systems.

 

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
October 8, 2007 - 7:35am
what about a ship powered by FTA? (Faster Than Anything) a.k.a. Bad NewsTM

Foot in mouth
we *all* know that bad news travels faster than anything....
...of course ships powered by Bad News Drives tend to become the bad news.... Smile

then there is the Infinite Improbability Drive on the Heart of Gold.
...but then again there is the Bistromathic Drive which works by exploiting the
irrational mathematics that apply to numbers on a waiter's cheque pad and groups
of people in restaurants.

Bistromathics itself is simply a revolutionary new way of understanding the behaviour of numbers. Just as Albert Einstein's general relativity theory observed that space was not an absolute but depended on the observer's movement in time, and that time was not an absolute, but depended on the observer's movement in space, so it is now realized that numbers are not absolute, but depend on the observer's movement in restaurants.





blackchip's picture
blackchip
October 8, 2007 - 9:09am
As long as we're being silly:

The fastest thing in the universe is Monarchy.  After all, should the king die his son, no matter where in the universe he may be, is instantly king.  The same holding true for a queen, in matriarchal societies.  It has been proposed that this is achieved through semi-quantum particles known as kingons and queenons, which can travel instantaneously to their destination unless they hit their opposing particle, the republicon.

There was once some discussion on how to facilitate instant communication in the cosmos through the torture of royalty.  This discussion suffered greatly when the bar closed and everyone had to go home.

CleanCutRogue's picture
CleanCutRogue
October 8, 2007 - 9:15am
blackchip wrote:
As long as we're being silly:

The fastest thing in the universe is Monarchy. After all, should the king die his son, no matter where in the universe he may be, is instantly king. The same holding true for a queen, in matriarchal societies. It has been proposed that this is achieved through semi-quantum particles known as kingons and queenons, which can travel instantaneously to their destination unless they hit their opposing particle, the republicon.

There was once some discussion on how to facilitate instant communication in the cosmos through the torture of royalty. This discussion suffered greatly when the bar closed and everyone had to go home.
hahaha... that really made me laugh out loud!
3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

-top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


GJD's picture
GJD
November 5, 2007 - 5:36am
Corjay wrote:
Works for me, though I've never been a fan of warp propulsion. It's more voodoo than any of the others.
Actually, Warp drive may be the most "realistic" of them all. Try these for size: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diametric_drive

G.

GJD's picture
GJD
November 5, 2007 - 6:39am
1. Jump drive - The instantaneous, or near instantaneous, transmission of matter from one place to another. This is closest to the KH Void drive. There may be prerequisites to doing the actual jump itself, charging jump coils, reaching a gravitionalaly netral point, waiting until the stars are right, reching 1% of the speed of light (yeah, right - what about photons then?) which mean that lthough the actual act of moving a great distance is very quick, the process takes a long time. Not terribly realistic (but see below regarding tunneling effect). The economic implications are that the time to prepare for the jump is significant, ships that can reduce that time, faster engines to get to jump point or better astrogation computers to reduce calculations have an edge. Depending on what happens on arrival, if the same ammount of time is required to travel in to the system, or slow down, as is required when jumping out then there will be little military advantage gained - you will know your enemy has arrived and be able to prepare for them. Examples in other games include the Voide Drive from SFKH.

2. Stutterwarp - The ship uses a form of Jump drive, but each jump lasts a fraction of a second and only moves the ship a few hundred meters. By cycling the drive very fast the ship can seem to move at speeds fater than c. Since the ship is never actually moving - just jumping from spot to spot, it dosen't aquire any new speed or direction - if you turn the stutterwarp off, you carry on moving at the same speed and in the same direction as you were before. Economic implications are that the fater a drive can cycle, and the longer each jump is, the "quicker" the ship will seem to travel, so "faster" ships will be more economical, getting their cargo's there faster. Militarily, you will outpace you sensor signal, so you may well arrive in the enemy jome system before they know anything about it. Examples in other games include the Jerome Effect drive from 2300AD, which also included a charge build-up which limited the drives range to 7.7LY, to create "trade routes" between stars. 

3. Hyperspace - An alternate dimension where physical realities are different. Ships enter hyperspace using a hyperdrive engine of some sort, and travel within it is discontinuous with realspace - you can't be affected by real space whilst in hypersapace, and a small ammount of travel time in hypersapce relates to a large distance covered in realspace. Large objects may cast a "shadow" into hyperspace which can be hazzardous - such a flying right through a sun or black hole. Hyperspace "routes" may need to be charted. The speed of a ship in hyperspace will determine it's economic impact. If hyperdrive engines are required to move the ship in hyperspace as well as enter and leave, these may be more important the high efficency real-space engines. Militarily hypersapce is a double edged sword - if you know the route you can go anywhere, but you go blind, not being able to know what you will meet at the far end.  

4. Warp drive - Modern scientific theories state that a form of Warp Drive may be possible which allowas a vessel to manipulate spacetime to compress it in front of the ship and expand it behind the ship and then traverse the compressed area of space-time. The vessel remains in real space at all times, but seemingly exceeds c by traversing compressed space at conventional speeds. To the outside obsever the ship would seem to stretch out and dim as it moved through the compressed space, dimming to the point where it's apparent velocity exceeded c. The compression of space has to be achieved relative to the moving object only, and at the moment would seem to require more energy than actualy exists in the universe - but it's a nice theory. example - It's warp drive, Jim. 
  
5. Gravity Drive - A drive which de-couples the ship from the constraints of relativistic travel - a super-engine effectively. You turn it on and just "go faster" until you are exceeding the speed of light in real space. The effects of relativity are conveniently ignored or sidestepped. May or may not be inertialess to avoid all the messy acceleration and deceleration effects. Remarkably un-scientific but also terribly, terribly sci-fi. Example - Firefly Drive from Serenity (one system my butt), Classic Galactica drive. - Edit - Whilst doing a bit of research for this, I stumbled across the work of Drs Heim, Dröshcer and Häuser on the Heim-Dröshcer calculus. This is avery, very dense opiece of work which tries to tie general relativity in with Quantum mechanics. However, there appear to be several intersting outcomes, one of which is the possible creation of anti-gravity (an ESA funded experiment may have produced a gravitational effect 21 times higher than prediceted by general relativity) and the possible un-coupling of objects from the constraints of general reletivity in certain states.... Plus, the Heim-Dröshcer drive sounds kind of cool.

6. N-space - A dimesnion near to ours that allows vessels to partially "phase out" orf realspace, allowing FTL style travel because of various means. Ships can still be detected and affected by realspace events. A kind of mix of Gravity drive and Hyperspace. 

7. Fold Drive - Fold engines are used to create a unity between two distant points in space, so that the space a vessel occupies appears in two places at once, and then only one place at once, just a different place. The effects are more or less the same as Jump drive - just the mechanics are different. Shares the same problem as the warp drive that current theories place the energy expenditure as prohibitive. (you are folding the universe in two, after all)

8. Stargates - Artificial conduits between two locations which by-pass the intervening space. This could be because of portals into a pocket universe creating a convenient shortcut or artificial wormholes, or some form of FTL matter transmitter, reducing the traveller to a data signal beamed via FTL and re-integrated at the target point. Requires some form of artificial device vulnerable to attack, sabotage and so on - and how do you get the other stargate to the far end in the first place.... 

9. Wormholes - Naturally occuring versions of the above. May require some form of trigger to open (neutrino burst, mystic incantation, human sacrifice) and may not always be there, or could be subject to variable journey lengths ("Sorry, but the route to Fromeltar is down today, I'll have to re-route you  the long way round - could put a couple of weeks on your trip").

Just a few thoughts....

G.

Anonymous's picture
Corjay (not verified)
November 5, 2007 - 9:41am
Will wrote:
If you can fold spacetime to cross it, then you can strengthen spacetime to prevent the folding of spacetime.
I don't think that's true. I think Space Time is as strong as it gets. All you can do is weaken it. So to prevent someone from coming through, you want to temporarily disrupt the point of entry. Strengthening it is a very unlikely scenario, because it's a balance. What's more balanced than balanced? Nothing. But disrupt the balance and the area becomes unstable.

GJD's picture
GJD
November 5, 2007 - 4:19pm
Corjay wrote:
Will wrote:
If you can fold spacetime to cross it, then you can strengthen spacetime to prevent the folding of spacetime.
I don't think that's true. I think Space Time is as strong as it gets. All you can do is weaken it. So to prevent someone from coming through, you want to temporarily disrupt the point of entry. Strengthening it is a very unlikely scenario, because it's a balance. What's more balanced than balanced? Nothing. But disrupt the balance and the area becomes unstable.


Well, theoretically it dosen't work like that, it's not a case of strenthening or weakening, or comming through or not. For a start, the effect is all relative, you only "fold" the spacetime that the vessel occupies not space-time generally, and folding is a simple 2-d analogy for a 4-d event that makes two points in spacetime contiguous with one another. The matter at one point briefly occupies both, then only one again, just a different one.

But considering the staggering technology level and power output that you need to actually use a fold drive, you could probably find an easier way to move things about anyway. 

Of course you can still say "Hey, this is sci-fi" and chuck the physics out, but then all bets are off anyway so you can make up whatever rules you like. Fold drives need warm towels to operate and produce pink sparkly radiation as a byproduct that turns butter into guitars. And smells of cabbage.

G.

aramis's picture
aramis
March 21, 2008 - 4:42pm
In re the KH 1PSL translation:
it could be that, in order to transit, the object has to have a certain minimum mass. It needs to be above atomic mass, since particle beams don't do it, or perhaps needs to have both a minimum mass AND be free of a local gravity well.

Will's picture
Will
March 22, 2008 - 10:12am
Corjay wrote:
Will wrote:
If you can fold spacetime to cross it, then you can strengthen spacetime to prevent the folding of spacetime.
I don't think that's true. I think Space Time is as strong as it gets. All you can do is weaken it. So to prevent someone from coming through, you want to temporarily disrupt the point of entry. Strengthening it is a very unlikely scenario, because it's a balance. What's more balanced than balanced? Nothing. But disrupt the balance and the area becomes unstable.


A possibility.

Or, you can strengthen it at one point at the expense of weakening it somewhere else.

Or, if you believe Everett, et al, you can strengthen it in this universe at the expense of weakening it at the same point in a parallel universe, as all probabilities are covered under the totality of superspace.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation