 November 15, 2009 - 7:34pm | It probably would fall under the mis-jump rules. But it would seem that if the engines failed the ship may still be able to drop out of the void. Maybe using docking thrusters. But it also could be stuck, interesting question. |
 November 15, 2009 - 7:51pm | I didn't think of the docking thrusters idea. I was thinking that the main drives would be the only way to slow the ship down. Good idea. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
 November 15, 2009 - 8:50pm | What about the effects that the void might have on biologicials? Are they aware of time spent in the void? Would they be able to know if the main engines failed? If it is a totally automated system, what happens if there is a catastrphic computer failure? The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
November 15, 2009 - 9:02pm | There probably would be a analog back up like a timer, if the timer is not reset the ship automatically drops out of the void. I use a similar system in my Valkyrie Class Starship, called a Fail-Safe Return Timer. This device automatically FTL jumps the ship via auto pilot back to the last recorded jump point if the timer is not deactivated before the designated time runs out. This way if the crew is disabled or the ship is damaged (so long as the FTL still works) the ship will jump back to its last recorded jump point. Now this system doesnt work on the Void travel premise, In the Dark Tempest setting I use a space folding FTL drive, but the idea may work here too. Another device could be an emergency Void brake: A one time use rocket thruster with just enough power to drop the ship out of the void if the engines fail or are damaged. It would work on a separate self-contained system so if the engines were down it would still work. It would probably be a chemical rocket drive. It woud be mounted outboard so that it would use minimal HS restrictions and very space effective. It could also be attached on a hull extension (one of those scaffolding looking tubular frames). |
 November 15, 2009 - 9:38pm | Another device could be an emergency Void brake: A one time use rocket thruster with just enough power to drop the ship out of the void if the engines fail or are damaged. It would work on a separate self-contained system so if the engines were down it would still work. It would probably be a chemical rocket drive. It woud be mounted outboard so that it would use minimal HS restrictions and very space effective. It could also be attached on a hull extension (one of those scaffolding looking tubular frames). Great idea but one refinement: since its outside the hull propper then is has no protection during combat. any proximity detonation of a nuke (see Nukes on KH ships thread) whether torp, seeker, or mine is automatic destruction of the void brake. also every D10 of damage/turn is a cumulative 10% chance the void brake is damaged or destroyed. so if a ship takes say 3d10 in damage from RB's, AR's or any other beam weapon in one turn then there is a 30% chance that turn that the brake was damaged or destroyed (if the dice roll to see if damaged or destroyed is odd its damaged and even its destroyed). What would be the cost of the system? I would say go with the A,B or C classes of the engine size for the ships hull to figure some sort of cost for the system and then apply the cost of enough chemical fuel for 1 ADF EDIT: but if you added this then I can see players wanting to fire it during combat- since the system is obviously oriented 180 from the engines orientation then they could try to fire it for emergency braking to stop short in combat to avoid entering weapons range or to avoid a collision or to cause a collision. Then I'd say you have to apply either 1d10 of damage or 1 roll on the advanced damage table since its slamming the ship backwards against its current thrust. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 16, 2009 - 3:21am | A "void brake" retro thruster...really all you would need is a size A chemical drive (regardless of actuall hull size mandates) and one burst of fuel, since all you need to do to drop out of the void is slow down a hair. Of course slowing down once back in real space is a whole nuther can of worms... Add to that the time to realize the main drives are offline and the time needed to react/fire the retro thruster (not to mention how everything feels distorted inthe void) is going to send you light years beyond the target star. |
 November 16, 2009 - 8:30am | And then, of course, you have the problem of that you are still traveling at just a hair less than 1% the speed of light with no means to slow down or change course more than a fraction. |
November 16, 2009 - 10:03am | Might be an interesting adventure to have the chracters do a rescue mission on a ship that is stuck at just below void speeds. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
 November 16, 2009 - 3:12pm | I've always assumed that you use your finer veneer thrusters to enter and exit the Void. You use your main engines to run up to just short of jump speed (how you determine that is a whole other discussion) and then use the small RCS thrusters to push you just over the edge and then back down again after a few seconds. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
November 16, 2009 - 3:55pm | Leave it to a NASA guy to make space travel sound all complicated and stuff...  At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
November 16, 2009 - 4:06pm | you mean you don't just hit the button? what? omg? really? But thats what they do on the Teee Veee, golly I'm so confused. |
November 16, 2009 - 4:09pm | I say that the main drives have a reverse thrust feature on them, akin to modern airliners when landing: the tail cone closes as the afterburner opens at the base of the drive body thereby redirecting the thrust fore instead of aft. No reason a void capable KH drive can't redirect the thrust fore as well. It works according to canon on several levels...first and foremost is the maneuver rating, which states that a ship may make no more than one facing change for every 10,000km travelled. Not a problem considering void speeds, where you're covering millions of 10,000km hexes per second...but now consider that you can only execute your maximum MR in a ten minute period, and then consider if your ship has a MR of 1 or 2 --- void travel lasts 3-15 seconds according to canon (which I streamlined to mean one second per light year traveled), so you can't spend that much time in the void turning your tail around. Now the bigger problem to drive failure is having your acceleration circuit STICK...meaning it accelerates into the void and you can't decelerate...the ship simply continues accelerating as a result (throw in stuck at max ADF for more misadventurous mayhem). |
November 17, 2009 - 10:59am | That is an interesting SF physics discussion -- depending on how each GM runs their own setting, continued acceleration while in the void could have a wide range of effects -- disasterous mechanical failures, termination of all biological entities, you wind up in a hotel room with a big black monolith watching you while you eat and age rapidly ... |
November 17, 2009 - 8:03pm | I guess that is the next question. When you reach void speeds the ship is able to slip through relative space many times faster than normal. Would secondary manuevering thrusters be enough to drop the speed of the ship? Would it be like using a blowtorch to slow down a dragster? well.. you get what I mean... At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
November 17, 2009 - 9:30pm | I guess it depends on how "sharp" the speed edge is. If it is very sharp (which is how I play it) then just the slightest nudge will get you over and back out. In that case the mauevering thrusters are enough power. Looking at the physics of the ship, the maneuvering thrusters can't exactly be that wimpy and so can provide a decent amount of thrust. The trick in this case is not accidentally going over the speed on your main engines. In this case, you run up to .999 precent the speed of light on your main drives, everyone preps for the Void and you turn on your maneuvering thrusters. It make take a minute or two to push you up to the edge then they shut off as soon as Void entry occurs. Since you are only over the "speed limit" by a tiny amount as supplied by those thrusters, you fire them in reverse and they immediately drop you out of the Void as well. In this scenario you could also do the "flip" before the jump. Again get yourself up to the .0999c. But this time you flip the ship to be tail first and then fire your maneuvering thrusters in reverse to push you over the edge and into the Void. In this configuration you have two options to get out of the Void, either firing your maneuvering thrusters as in the first case or if they fail for some reason, engaging the main drives and droping below the speed limit fast. In fact you could imagine this as a fail safe mode. The default is to use the maneuvering thrusters, however if you don't drop out of the void within a millisecond or so after they were engaged the computer automatically engages the main drives at full thrust for a while (shouldn't be more than a fraction of a second) until you drop out. Of course if the "speed limit" is soft, using the maneuvering thrusters is going to be harder if they can't provide an appreciable acceleration. (I should go look at the orbiter code Art and I wrote and see just how much accleration the Assault Scouts maneuvering jets provided on their own.) And they probably wouldn't work at all if there was any hysterisis in the speed limit (i.e. you have to get some small amount above the .01c to enter the Void and slow down to some small amount below 0.01c to get out). The bigger the gap the more powerful engines you need to exit in the few seconds you have. Or you default to the second idea above. Use the maneuvering thrusters to push you over the edge and the main engines to drop you out. Of course you could always steal Art's concept (from KH Vector) that it is the speed, coupled with a field effect (in his case generated by the primitive freeze field technology employed in the colony ship) that initates the Void entry. Then getting out of the Void is just a matter of shutting down the field or dropping the speed. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
November 17, 2009 - 10:46pm | I like the idea of weird physical effects at higher than Void speed speeds. Stuff like time travel, interdemensional travel, slipping into alternate universes apparitions begin appearing on the ship or some other idea stolen from the twilight zone. One thought- if 1% of C can bounce you a few star systems away then how far could 2% of C bounce you? Gallaxies? suffice it to say if a KH ship did accel to 2% then I'd expect them to land in another gallaxy with no idea of where the milky way is and precious little hope of finding their way home. sort of a Star Trek voyager meats SF. You'd have a clean slate to work up a whole new setting. and I'd work in the tetrachs, (someone PC or NPC would have to have some archaeology skill), after all if the it wouldn't be cool to abandon the PCs in another gallaxy so there'd have to be some weird tetrarch tech that could possibly get them home. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
