 May 18, 2009 - 10:43pm | Dragon magazine once posted an article giving one possible backstory to the Volturnus series. I really enjoyed reading it but one thing has always bugged me, why was a civilian passenger liner traveling to an uninhabited planet? Why would there be other passengers on board when Volturnus is not on the way to any inhabited systems? Sure the fist fights onboard the sirenna dawn were one of the best parts of SF0 but why not send the PCs onboard a small assault scout class ship--it could still be attacked and crash on the planet? I know SF0 is a classic and I have a special place in my heart for this one but the rational behind sending a passenger liner into pirate territory has always left me scratching my head. |
 May 18, 2009 - 10:53pm | Yeah I guess you are right on that one. Ah well, it's one of those things you just kind of have to shrug off about Volturnus - along with the horrific lack of gyrojet ammunition and ammo as a whole - until the pirate outpost in SF1... After I ran it once, I dropped some additional choice goodies in there as well. Let's just say I spiced up the Survival Packs in the life boat, and added more kits, and let the PCs loot ALL of them before the life boat blew up. Plus don't forget the Lake of Fire, where I have not run that as a referee without at least 1/3 of the party being incinerated by falling into the lava! |
 May 19, 2009 - 4:50am | This had been discussed before, can't recall if it was here or at SF.org but the general rationale was that the Truane's Star government did not wish to commit any further military hardware to the already once failed mission, moreso having to contend with a police action at Cygus Omicron 9. Which actually makes sense that a civilian craft would be hired. After all, when military warships are in high deamnd and short supply, the coffers of government spending are bottomless so no doubt a group of spacers would answer the call once the word was put out. As far as other passengers goes, I don't have the module handy at the moment but I honestly don't recall any mention of that. IIRC it was simply the ship's crew and the PC exploration party members. |
 May 19, 2009 - 11:35am | I didn't think the module said star liner but yep Gamma Section 2 page 4 in the original says star liner I've always kind of envisioned The Serena Dawn as a bit of a tramp frieghter with some limited passenger space. The module does say the character counters go in the passenger class cabins and in another spot it describes them as tiny so I'd assume their journey class cabins It is a bit odd to have any ship with a commercial purpose delivering a rescue operation to an unexplored planet unless the cheapest alternative was to hire a commercial vessel because of whats happening on the domestic/military front. You would certainly not find any captain or ship owner booking this mission if they was doing well- its too risky, but a down on his luck captain would jump at this and since it involves some risk it'd pay pretty good in contrast to the actual work required. so I like envisioning the Serena Dawn as a very old tramp freighter with a passenger deck. Since it lacks an elevator (in the original and my re-imagined deck plans) I explain that as the ship pre-dates modern ship designs and doesn't even have an elevator. Also some people like to mix Streel into the mix since the Mega Corp is headquartered on Pale the Serena Dawn could be owned by Streel and was detailed because the mega corp has used the current crisis tying up the Pale military to horn in on the Volturnus mission and get in before PGC None the less a full fledged star liner makes no sense but a freighter with a passenger deck that is also delivering substantial supplies, vehicles and even drop buildings for the use of the rescue/ exploration mission makes a lot of sense. I told my players in their mission brief they get a set of drop building then show them the map of the 1st pirate outpost saying this is what they look like. then the attack on the Serena Dawn invovles ripping off the mission's cargo which makes sense. Also storming the pirate outpost is a bit personal as it 'belongs' the the players. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 May 19, 2009 - 3:09pm | This had been discussed before, can't recall if it was here or at SF.org but the general rationale was that the Truane's Star government did not wish to commit any further military hardware to the already once failed mission, moreso having to contend with a police action at Cygus Omicron 9. Which actually makes sense that a civilian craft would be hired. After all, when military warships are in high deamnd and short supply, the coffers of government spending are bottomless so no doubt a group of spacers would answer the call once the word was put out. As far as other passengers goes, I don't have the module handy at the moment but I honestly don't recall any mention of that. IIRC it was simply the ship's crew and the PC exploration party members. Umm, only prob with that was that Jameison, Grod and their merry band were also brought to Volturnus via starliner. SF0 mentions replacing dead PCs with new PCs, the rationale being that they encounter other surviving passengers from the starliner. Also, one of the pirate encounters(I forget if it was a random or a planned one)began with pirates attacking a fellow passenger. Still and all, it still doesn't make sense that the Truane's Star government would divert the freakin' Love Boat(which would rely on regular routes)to the back of beyond just to drop off a few explorers. It would make more sense to stick the PCs on, say, a courier vessel or freighter, than a starliner...then again, I guess Molodovay and Co. needed a reason to separate the characters from their weapons and other gear before they even entered the system. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 19, 2009 - 9:01pm | Jedi, I take your approach as well, that the 'Dawn was a freighter with some extended passenger accomodations. The team was supposed to be delivered with additional gear (vehicles, etc) which would have been in the ship's hold and I've always imagined the cargo space being a bit bigger than you'd find on a small passenger liner. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
May 19, 2009 - 9:26pm | Hmm...I just leafed through SF-0 and here's what I managed to find --- 1st pirate encounter (p5 of SF-0), following the classic Moldvay description box read aloud to the players, reads as follows: "The space pirates are hijacking the Serena Dawn. One of them is attacking a crewman in the corridor." The only other encounters between the PC quarters and the lifeboats are more pirates. No mention of passengers in any of the planned or random encounters. Only the offbeat cargo items hint at the possibility of passengers (re: the high fashion human dresses, the computoy, and the vruskan prize statue), but then again all of that could be personal items belonging to the ship's crew. I didn't see the bit about replacing lost characters, if it's there I missed it (can anyone point me to it?)...but I would probably say any replacements were crew members rather than passengers for the sake of continuity, or perhaps even a secondary exploration team aboard the Dawn that the players didn't know about. I also didn't find anything detailing what the first ship was, I never saw the actual word "starliner" in the players background report (p11 of SF-0). It only lists it as a "starship". Maybe it's in another module? However, AD space travel is pretty much assumed to take place on star liners, players have to book passage to each system etc so it fits that vein. And said background report reads "The government has provided you with minimal amount of equipment, and transportation to Volturnus aboard the starliner Serena Dawn. After dropping you off, the Serena Dawn will return in three months to transport you back to Truane's Star." To me, that hints at the TS govt owns the Serena Dawn or at least has a government charter with the Dawn. Campaign wise, keep in mind KH had yet been penned when the Volturnus adventure was released. There was no Streel corporation, only Pan Galactic. There were no ship rules or guidelines, just the aforementioned "players book passage on a starliner" bit. About the only non-liner ship I can think of from AD would be the crashed Heppelwhite Inc. ship in the sample adventure near the end of the expanded rulebook, and it is merely referred to as a "spaceship wreck" rather than any specific type of craft (which I would probably define as some sort of HS:2-3 scout class vessel). But to convert it all to KH...well, I suppose the Truane's Star government (or optionally Streel) could commandeer or acquire a retired liner and outfit it for exploration duty. Sure, it makes sense to commission a freighter, after all it's much easier to bring home lots of stuff with one...but a small liner can make for a fair exploration vessel (see the description in the KH campaign book for scientific research ships --- HS:3-7 IIRC), I can easily see a small liner being retrofitted for such duty. It actually works well with the players' background report. There's also mention of a shuttle on p7 of SF-0, Crash in the Desert --- "Instead of landing in a choice site in a fully equipped shuttle..." suffice it to say you would more likely find a passenger shuttle or two on a liner than a freighter, again making it a more suitable sci-research retrofit. Still, there's a lot of conflict if you want to mesh KH into the mix. For starters, in order to have two lifeboats as the Serena Dawn does, the ship must be at least HS:10 or larger (there goes the realm of scientific research and exploration vessels). Although the Serena Dawn lifeboats accomodate eight beings instead of 20, so perhaps two smaller lifeboats can replace one standard lifeboat so it floats in that regard. It's a poor deck arrangement to boot...two separate bridges, two computer rooms, two cargo bays, and the engine rooms are all readily accessible by anyone onboard. The two security corridors are completely meaningless, with public access corridors running right next to them going to the same places. I won't get into the Star Trek/Star Wars/Traveller "decks parallel to main axis" issues. But that's the big issue, meshing KH with the module...because as mentioned KH didn't exist at the time so that's a whole 'nuther can of worms. Personally, I'd call it a scientific research ship instead of a liner, and if motivated to better blend it with the KH environment I'd probably draft up some actual KH deck plans and rewrite the hijacking scenario to better suit the new deck plans. |
May 19, 2009 - 10:49pm | Gentlemen, gentlemen, please! It was a starter module... The flaws are there, and evident. What's a party and ref to do? Just don't fall in the lava! Of course, it is always fun to speculate. I also like the fact that the Serena Dawn was a parallel deck. Ugh - let's not start that again, right? LOL  |
May 20, 2009 - 7:07am | I also didn't find anything detailing what the first ship was, I never saw the actual word "starliner" in the players background report (p11 of SF-0). It only lists it as a "starship". Maybe it's in another module? Gama Section 2 boxed "players description" 3rd paragraph says starliner So far we have 2 candidates for Serena Dawn's class of ship 1. frieghter 2. small star liner retrofited to exploration vessel. Few thoughts on that- why would they send an exploration vessel to play taxi? why not send a taxi It would make sense for an exploration vessel with labs and such to hang around and support the ground team though it might cruise out to survey asteroids and gas giants. It also is not a great stretch that independently owned freighters would have both cargo holds and some passenger accomodation. In the early days of space travel before regular Love Boat type companies got going in a big way, freighter captians would book passage for passengers and they'd still keep doing it latter as there would still be people who were looking to "book passage-no questions asked....lets just say we want to avoid any imperial entanglements." despite the loss of passenger traffic for the freighters due to the star liners the extra money made for the "no questions asked" service would be very attractive. freighters owned by regular shiping lines would conform to the deck plans in the KH box as a company like that would likely have a no passengers policy and would just want its routes and schedules maintained without any unneccessary complications. There is also the possibility of some one being too poor to pay for even cold storage on a liner or they're a college drop out looking to for a little adventure for the summer so they WORK passage on a tramp frieghter basically paying their way by working for the ship till they get to planet x. I greatly prefer the freighter explanation though the retrofitted liner has some merit. though I could easily see a bit of a scoundrel type frieghter captain saying, "Oh, you need a star liner? I have a starliner. Sure I can take you where your going....What do mean this isn't a liner? I book passengers all the time!" I still dont like the starliner turn exploration vessel for this adventure BUT... it is a good idea for a PC crewed ship: HS 8 liner decommissioned for lack of proffitability in the face of most star lines going to HS 20 ships or for a militia short on cash picking up this type of liner and turning it into a troop transport/fleet collier. As for replacing dead PCs with former passengers- the pirates have been capturing and enslaving Frontier citizens to work in mines on volturnus- these people can be written into an adventure easily. Maybe one managed to get loose in orbit and jumped into an escape pod and managed to make contact with the Ul-mor or whatever native race the PCs are dealing with in the trilogy of modules. I always assumed that some of the serena dawns crew must have made it down in escape pods. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 20, 2009 - 4:09pm | Gentlemen, gentlemen, please! It was a starter module... The flaws are there, and evident. What's a party and ref to do? Just don't fall in the lava! Of course, it is always fun to speculate. I also like the fact that the Serena Dawn was a parallel deck. Ugh - let's not start that again, right? LOL Honestly, the flaws were intentional, as the writers had to have some kind of way to strand the characters on the back of beyond without their toys, so they'd have to solve the problem of uniting the four races and preparing them to take out the worms. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 20, 2009 - 7:19pm | Oh, don't get me wrong, I loved the Volturnus trilogy. Lucas or Spielberg should make an epic motion picture from that material. I thought it was brilliantly written, and everything meshed well. Gama Section 2 boxed "players description" 3rd paragraph says starliner Right, that's the player's means of transport. We were trying to define what the first expedition craft was that carried Jameson and company to Volturnus. Which, according to AD rulebooks, would pretty much be a starliner...but there was no actual mention of it that I could find. It would make sense for an exploration vessel with labs and such to hang around and support the ground team though it might cruise out to survey asteroids and gas giants. Exactly. The background report states that the ship will return for the characters in three months. It never said the ship will leave Zebulon for three months. Drop them off in a shuttle, let them do their thing, while the parent ship does its thing. After all, Volturnus was only discovered 20 years prior to the adventure so there's lots of things a scientific research craft could do insystem. Like discovering Zebulon's other habitable planet (Anker)...
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 May 21, 2009 - 5:28am | One thing I've done is to replace the Serena Dawn with a modified Large Freighter from KH. I added a second crew deck, removing the airlock and making it the passenger deck. The pirates simply attack via the airlock, giving the players time to react and prepare. Then, just when it seems the players have defeated the boarding attempt, the pirates blow a porthole on the bridge, killing most of the crew and forcing the PCs to flee the ship, either in a lifeboat or in their shuttle, which of course is carried in the cargo bay. "Rome didn't build an empire by having meetings. They did it by killing those who stood in their way." |
May 21, 2009 - 3:09pm | See now, there's the other problem with sending a fully-operation starliner into the back of beyond...the wrongful death and reckless endangerment lawsuits from all the families of the passengers who didn't pay for the three-hour tour of Volturnus. The PCs might actually prefer being killed by the Sathar over being mired in endless legal wrangling.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 21, 2009 - 4:56pm | First off, it has yet to be determined that there actually were any passengers on the Dawn. Beyond the party anyways. Secondly, as an independantly owned vessel under government charter, I'm sure the captain would have had a waiver of liability even if there were. "The Serena Dawn has been contracted to fly into unexplored space by the government of Truane's Star. Any passengers willing to go along for the ride do so at their own risk." You know, just like the warnings on frozen pizza boxes: "Cook before eating", or those silica packets thrown into pool chlorine tablets to prevent moisture build up tht say "Do not eat" (never mind the toxic chlorine that the packet has been in constant contact with). |
May 21, 2009 - 6:17pm | Or, my personal favorite, the words "Warning:Contents may be hot[or words to that effect]," on every to-go cup of coffee I've ever drunk. Nawww, ya don't say. Who said anything about suing the captain(who would certainly not advertise the fact he was jumping into a system where one ship already disappeared without trace)...no, the plantiffs will go after the Truane's Star government and the PCs(the former for being behind the trip, the latter for causing the wrongful deaths/reckless endangerments....), and maybe the captain and his command staff for extras, because, as I may have mentioned, he may not be as forthcoming as Mal Reynolds: We may expirience some slight turbulence, and then explode. Of course, the Truane's Star government would try weaselling their way out by saying they had no idea the captain would be transporting extra passengers on the side, as far as they knew it was just the PCs and the crew on board(yeah, riiiiighttt....). Whether the suit has merit or not(and, lawyers, being the selachimorph scum they are, won't care one way or the other, as long as they get their fifteen minutes and thirty coin....)it will doubtlessly drag on for years, ultimately ending up before the Council of Worlds at the most inconvenient time. Like say, when the Council is reeling from the aftermath of an abortive Soonie invasion and internal plots to destroy the Federation.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 21, 2009 - 10:59pm | And who can forget the fast food menus over the counter that read "Brail menus available for our blind customers". I wonder if the seeing eye dogs alert such customers to that little tid bit of information. _______________________________________________ Not so much suing the captain, but the captain would provide a waiver for any/all passengers to sign. Protects him and the entire crew as well as anyone with a stake in the ship itself. As for going after the government (who hired/contracted the ship), well that never goes over well. In addition to the observztions you made, even if you manage to win that battle, you'll eventually lose the resulting war. Besides, any government has far more income at their disposal than any plaintiff can provide for legal defense. And should they actually run low on funding, they can always raise taxes. Which will only serve to make the plaintiff mega-popular... And I probably don't need to go into the details involving trials against authoritative governments. "In the case of John Smith versus the Iron Fist Dictatorship, how does the defendant plea?" "Minister of internal security, eliminate Mr. Smith and his entire family. And try not to forget the dog this time..." |
May 22, 2009 - 8:51am | "In the case of John Smith versus the Iron Fist Dictatorship, how does the defendant plea?" "Minister of internal security, eliminate Mr. Smith and his entire family. And try not to forget the dog this time..." Note to self...never drink coffee while reading one of Shadow's posts....TFF. But true.... And who can forget the fast food menus over the counter that read "Brail menus available for our blind customers". I wonder if the seeing eye dogs alert such customers to that little tid bit of information. I would think they would broadcast that over a loudspeaker. Seriously, the company relies on the people behind the counter to tell the blind customers that they have Braille menus. The same counter people, mind, who have trouble understanding the words "double Quarter-Pounder with cheese, plain." Or, the word "plain" in general.... (Another personal favorite, Shadow, are the Waffle House menus. Aside from warning that eating undercooked meat and eggs may be bad for you[those medium-raw steaks I like ain't killed me yet], they have all these pictures of meals served with hashbrowns[for which anyone familiar with WH should know by now is one of the five things WH is infamous for], even with their hamburger and steak meals, and, yet, it never freakin' fails, a customer will ask "y'all have French fries, right?") Now, back to the Volturnus Connection. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 22, 2009 - 11:27am | Speaking of waivers- that would be a wonderfully devious way to set up the players who own their own ship. They'd probably not think to ask NPCs for a waver and when the simple little milk run to Cygnus Omicron goes sour.... and they suddenly discover that passenger x has a history of bringing frivolous lawsuits.... and they are slapped with an injunction not to leave the system with the ship till the suit is settled.....and docking fees keep piling up.... I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 May 25, 2009 - 7:35pm | Well what's more strange, the fact that it's a starliner doing a planetary survey. Or the fact that a search of the cargo bay could find you steambath perfume, a Yazirian punching bag, Vrusk body wax? Our run through that our first question was are any of these thing flamable? Leave it to a bunch of loons to want to start throwing flaming perfume flasks at pirates. The ball bearings came in useful as well, some pirates never got the chance to use their weapons and the PCs landed on Volturnus with a few extra supplies. Some gamers just come up with ideas a GM hadn't even considered. They did lose 1 who died throwing things out of the lifeboat, the rest of the party benefited from this. Player, they'll do it to you when ever they can. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
