 April 9, 2009 - 7:51am | Ok lads, here's a crazy one... What would the ACTUAL Frontier muster of ALL armed ships in the Known Galaxy be? After all, I would imagine that all vessels - corporate fleets, privateers, system ships, and possibly even pirates would fight the Sathar. The motley group of ships would easily be double or triple the size of the UPF! Now of course, for play balance, this would require at least the doubling of the Sathar Fleet. The civilian ships would be not as good as the UPF, of course. But they would be there. What would the composition of all of that be? |
 April 16, 2009 - 4:07pm | Thus Pale and New Pale were lost. Only after that battle did defense forces build from the general muster. Also, the general muster, as in the days of the American War of Independence, as well as the American Civil War, likely promises compensation. (In the War of Independence the colonists were promised a long list of rewards on both sides, and in the civil war the South promised land compensation, and blacks were promised freedom by the North) View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 April 16, 2009 - 5:10pm | In truth, the number available depends on what you have as the ship density of the Frontier. If you only had dozens of ships coming or going per day in any given system, there wouldn't be that many around to help. If, on the other hand, you have thousands of ships coming and going into a system on any given day (a high ship density) then it is possible that there might be at least 40 or 50 armed merchants nearby when the Sathar attack that could be mustered into service. If you figure a ship spends 4 days after void entry getting to the planet, 4 days at the station and 4 days leaving, you have 1/3 of the ships in system at the station at any given time. Of course then you have to consider, how many are armed, how many will answer the call to help, etc. Going by the SF/KH:0 Wariors of White Light module, it is stated that a "starship arrives at Clarion Station every 100-200 minutes". They make White Light out to be a busy system, although I would presume systems with two habitable planets to be considerably busier (like Prenglar, Cassidine, and Truanes Star for example). Either way, by the time analysts figure out that a fleet is inbound to one planet, there won't be sufficient time for craft at the other planet to arrive and assist (although the other craft may eventually flank the survivors later on). Now breaking it down, that Clarion example comes out to a starship arrival (and it doesn't specify what kind of starship, but we can pesume most will be civilian ships anyways) every 1 2/3 hours to 3 1/3 hours, or simply on the average every 2½ hours. In a standard 20 hour GST day that's 8 craft per day arriving. There is no mention of departing traffic, but it's safe to say some arrivals will stick around longer, as unles they have government or corporate sponsored chartered routes they'll have to resort to beating the docks looking for cargo, spend time on the rcreation deck, booking passengers, etc suffice it to say departing traffic isn't going to be as heavy as the arrivals. So arriving ships will eventually build up, and docking space will become limited (hence, ships outside the station awaiting docking space). Take into account arriving and/or departing craft in the system when a sathar battle fleet arrives. I would presume there is some emergnecy broadcast channel on the subspace radio to alert any vessels of such a threat. Most non-warships would steer clear of a sathar fleet...that's a given. I'm sure there's some math that can determine exactly how many craft would be present at any given moment under such circumstances, and your 1/3 availability also might work into that formula. But int he end you'd still need to determine exactly how many of those available ships are armed. Perhaps a general formula could be whipped up, such as "1-3 armed civilian craft plus one per population rating" or such. So who would sign up for direct combat in any given system? Are "armed merchants" the only ones? What about a corporation's security forces? What about Mercenary forces? What about smugglers, pirates (particularly those seeking a repreive from prosecution), and private citizens? Armed merchants...possibly. Depends on how badly they need to conduct business. I wouldn't put it past a world government to hold their cargo or payment as hostage for assistance. Or they could offer their assistance in return for some business, it could be a two way street here. I'd side with a corporation force acting only intheir interests, meaning if their world was directly threatened. Streel certainly wouldn't dispatch armed corporate vessels from Morgaine's World to help protect Gran Quivera (headquarters to Pan Galactic). Mercenary forces, again like a corporate force I wouldn't see them volunteering unless they were trapped on the invaded world, or if it was their homeworld. They would demand compensation before joining any battle. |
April 16, 2009 - 10:20pm | See my post just above yours regarding stakes. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
April 17, 2009 - 11:37am | Wow, this is some thoughtful and imaginative discussion! So, it seems to me that there are a little fewer ships than I had thought. I think there would be plenty of stupidity and selfishness to prevent some ships from joining the muster. So 50 freighters I think is too much. It would seem to me to be about 20 ships - but some very well armed. The privateers and corporate fleets would probably be quite powerful - although with crappy crews and sluggish ships. Pirates might also have a beef against the Sathar. After all, they are killing their golden gooses. "Laying low" will just start the clock on their starvation. I think that Sathar ships could indeed get jumped by pirates, but only local ones and only if superior to the Sathar fleet in question. They would never cooperate with the UPF/militia, unless seeking amnesty, which I think is too complicated a question for the purposes of the wargame. |
 April 23, 2009 - 7:13am | Pirates might also have a beef against the Sathar. After all, they are killing their golden gooses. "Laying low" will just start the clock on their starvation. I think that Sathar ships could indeed get jumped by pirates, but only local ones and only if superior to the Sathar fleet in question. They would never cooperate with the UPF/militia, unless seeking amnesty, which I think is too complicated a question for the purposes of the wargame. Great ideas! I could easily see Pirates taking advantage of the situation to sell info/ material to the UPF- like the pirates have stumbled across the assembly point for a major sathar fleet and would the UPF be interested in that information for a small consideration? or a squadron of pirates swarmed and captured a lone sathar vessel and after scavenging it they decide to try to sell it to the militia or the UPF- maybe they desparately need AR and Torp reloads and the war has disrupted the norm black market flow in these weapons so the pirates will trade for a frieghter full. or captured pirate crew is offered amenesty in exchange for helping defend the system it is a suicide mission to defend the system but that beats waiting in prison for the sathar to show or the Bap-E-Cusioner (capitol punishment by Bap bin- your molecules never get re-assembled). I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 April 23, 2009 - 5:40pm | I don't think they'd be able to capture a Sathar vessel. Remember the Sathar self-destruct their ships if it looks like that is likely. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 April 24, 2009 - 3:20pm | Unless you shoot out the engines. Or would the worms have a backup for that? "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 April 24, 2009 - 7:14pm | A tac nuke in the bridge should be sufficient, Will. 10KT inside the hull should render most of it itty bitty melted bits. |
April 24, 2009 - 8:00pm | I don't think they'd be able to capture a Sathar vessel. Remember the Sathar self-destruct their ships if it looks like that is likely. Isn't Face of the enemy the module where the PCs capture a Sathar vessel? or was it War Machine? Its not guarrenteed they they do but a possibility that they could. You could leave it as a mystery as to how a pirate squadron came into possession of a sathar ship but now the UPF is willing to do anything to get their hands on it. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 25, 2009 - 1:29am | Face of the Enemy, jedi. War Machine's the sequel. Now, what the Feds would probably give good creds for is a live Sathar. Since capturing a live worm's impossible, tho.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
April 25, 2009 - 4:14am | Shooting out the drives is only one small obstacle for them to overcome in the matter of self-destruction. Remember, when talking warships (of which the smallest the Sathar use is the frigate) anything HS:5 and larger has a magazine stocked with torpedoes...that'll do the job just as well for starters. A carrier can detonate their reserve of assault rockets, a freighter can charge up their laser battery's guns and let the heat build up without firing, and no doubt back up charges of D-19 can be filled into key structure joints of the bulkheads to do the job too. |
April 25, 2009 - 6:21pm | A tac nuke in the bridge should be sufficient, Will. 10KT inside the hull should render most of it itty bitty melted bits and: Shooting out the drives is only one small obstacle for them to overcome in the matter of self-destruction. Remember, when talking warships (of which the smallest the Sathar use is the frigate) anything HS:5 and larger has a magazine stocked with torpedoes...that'll do the job just as well for starters. A carrier can detonate their reserve of assault rockets, a freighter can charge up their laser battery's guns and let the heat build up without firing, and no doubt back up charges of D-19 can be filled into key structure joints of the bulkheads to do the job too. About what I thought. In game terms, rig it up to do damage like a shatter drone when it self destructs. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
