 January 19, 2009 - 12:56pm | Just found a Star Wars fan site that is using Star Frontiers art and converted a star frontiers module to be used for Star Wars! Could it be that the Star Frontiers revival is coming of age when other game systems are copying our material? http://swi.starwarsclub.org/traders/gullwind/ To be fair one look at the fat dralasite in the Dramune Run module and you know he's based off Jabba the Hutt (Jedi came out 1983 and Dramune Run came out 1984). How gratifying that SF in its infancy coppied SW and now as the SW rpg is tanking SW fans are copying SF! "So Obi wan, when I left you I was but the learner and you were the master, now I am the master!" "Your only a master of role playing games, Darth!" I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 19, 2009 - 3:55pm | Where did you hear that the Star Wars RPG is tanking? According to WOTC's product listing, they are still coming out with the following: Legacy Era Campaign Guide Jedi Academy Training Manual Rebellion Era Campaign Guide Galaxy at War Campaign Guide Besides these, they just came out with the highly anticipated Clone Wars Campaign Guide, and the WOTC website continues to provide support for the game through many articles. By the way, the page at that link has been around for over a year. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
January 19, 2009 - 10:39pm | Where did you hear that the Star Wars RPG is tanking? My mistake I was going by general here say generated at the war gaming club and with in my own RPG group. Obviously I should have used the force while writing that post. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 20, 2009 - 5:40am | I have seen a few people say the same thing on the SW deckplan forums. Just because products are being released isnt always a sign that it is thriving. Look at the Buck Rogers rpg from T$R. I still doubt that WOTC would print new material just because its under license from Lucas... Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
January 20, 2009 - 5:42am | Even though that website has been there, it is still great to see that SF still has an influence. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
January 20, 2009 - 12:18pm | I have seen a few people say the same thing on the SW deckplan forums. People have been declaring that since the first month of Saga's release. They're just sour grapes people who prefer their RCR and a few who have been turned off by the errata. But the people at WOTC have repeatedly stated that Saga is the most successful non-D&D product that they have ever had. It has also received several awards from the roleplaying community. Saga is not going anywhere. Also, WOTC has shown time and again that they will not support a cancelled or tanking product line. The second they cancel the product line, ALL endeavors toward that product line cease immediately. That is how they operate. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 January 20, 2009 - 6:27pm | Once it goes to Lucas, Lucas expects money from it. |
 January 20, 2009 - 7:40pm | That's actually a rather old site...I came across it back in 2003 or 2004 when OmegaRising.com was still up (although the domain has changed for the SW Gullwind site, the actual site has been up for a while). I've posted similar comments here and at SF.org in the past. http://starfrontiers.us/node/1753 As I've said about it in the past, Garlus is likened to an elderly Han Solo while the Malthar character is obviously taken from the Hutts. The Gullwind is no Millenium Falcon (the latter of which technically comes in at HS:3), but performs nearly as well at ADF:4 and it does have a faux smuggling compartment via the computer maintenance shaft, and it's also no spring chicken in terms of spaceship age. http://www.starfrontiers.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=524 That's the SF.org discussion showing the old domain link that the site was moved from...a 2005 discussion LOL |
 January 23, 2009 - 12:08am | Wow, now it's just blatant robbery. It does not surprise me, now that I think about it. When your situation blows (as Star Wars now does) why not go back to REAL sci fi bits from REAL games and just steal them because they are a good match? My bet is, in the next couple of years, Star Wars will start poaching Star Frontiers races and direct artwork, just to save themselves work and money. As aramis said, once Lucas puts his greasy paws on something, it had better generate mad loot, or else... I don't see the Gullwind as a poaching of the Mil. Falcon. I did not see it that way at the time, and I don't see it that way now. They are two different ships, with their own aspects to them. In any case, I think that jedion was making the point that the Star Bores RPG blows, and he is probably correct in that view. In terms of the new releases, I am sure that it is just Lucas cracking the whip. WOTC makes TSR look like Mother Theresa in terms of greed and money-grubbing. Part of that is because WOTC has sold their soul to Lucas. |
 January 23, 2009 - 12:58pm | Only part? Then again, what more can you expect from a company that started off making card games, which is owned by a Japanese toy company? If you answered steaming piles of dog crap, then you guessed correctly.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
January 23, 2009 - 6:22pm | And jedion - |
January 23, 2009 - 7:59pm | WOTC sold their souls twice: Once to Hasbro, once to Lucas. It's big corporate at nearly it's worst: inhuman, impersonal, poorly playtested, and sold on hype. Ok, yeah, D&D4 is playable, and kind of fun in a TMG style of play... much like The Fantasy Trip1 was. Saga Star Wars is said to be playable, and some think it fun. Cross fertilization is rampant, so don't be surprised when something inspired by one side or another gets done in the other. Honest people cite their inspiration; corporate wage stooges simply appropriate. 1 Melee, Wizard, In The Labyrinth, Advanced Melee, Advanced Wizard, Dragons of Underearth, Lords of Underearth. lots of solo modules, too, plus a few gamemastered ones. Almost proto-GURPS. |
January 23, 2009 - 9:30pm | Considering Steve Jackson wrote both..... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
January 24, 2009 - 5:27am | Uh oh, you said the S-J words... You really think that the Malthar was a rip off of Jabba the Hutt? I think that might be a bit of a stretch (no pun intended - haha). After all, Drammune Run was probably written before the release of Return of the Jedi - although I don't know for sure about that. It was released after the movie, so maybe... I know it wasn't addressed to me, but I'll field this one for a bit. Similarities between Dramune Run and Star Wars, as I see it: > Gullwind --- hinted at as Millenium Falcon but as mentioned far too many differences, #1 being sheer size. But there are several similarities (like I said earlier, it's older ship with some history and personality and there's the secret compartment smuggling a mated pair of Inner Reach's protected species). No rip off here, but clearly a good hint or two. > Garlus Tylappar = aged Han Solo, sort of...he's got the devil may care outlook on life and even a few ideals that he developed later. He smuggles for a crime lord, and later makes it onto said crime lord's most wanted list. Money is definitely a high priority. However, he has no alien counterpart (save for his former five dral crewmembers that died in Theseus), no military background, and he's no scoundrel. Definitely far enough apart not to be a blatant rip off. But there's certainly some hinting, more than the Gullwind/Falcon comparo to say the least. > Malthar = Jabba the Hutt spin off...he's a major crime lord, he puts a bounty on the head(s) of any/all crew members aboard the Gullwind. Well, not so much a bounty per se, but the Nightshade tailed them far enough to warrant some interest in the ship itself. Not to mention a few other Malthar/pirate ships. And he even declares how much he admires the ship "moreso now that it's mine". Yeah, to say the least he definitely wanted that ship at all costs (and the crew as an extra added bonus). Jabba smuggled spice, Malthar smuggles Ixiol. He hires a devil may care freighter captain to smuggle for him (who later betrays him, and tries to escape his wrath). He's even perched into a recliner/platform like Jabba. Blatant rip off? No, he doesn't solely rely on a criminal empire, rather he masks it behind a legitimate business empire. He speaks the common tongue and anyone/everyone can understand him without a protocol droid echoing his every thought or english subtitles at the bottom of the screen. He even speaks with a business-like demeanor and hints at sincerity and compassion (although much like MalCo Enterprises, it's merely a front). In the ballpark? Definitely, however I'd call it more of a "Jabba the Hutt meets Frank 'Lefty' Rosenthal (R.I.P.)" plotline. There's definitely enough similarity there pointing to Jabba as the role model yet enough in the way of differences to keep it original. |
January 24, 2009 - 5:52am | wow quite some discussion- I've never even cracked a SW RPG book in a store so I cant really give an opinion on it though it doesn't seem to be popular with the crowd I run with (with the exception of 1 guy whos gets excited over anything SW) My first guess on it is that with the number of corp. types involved I'd expect it to be a disappointment and unless it had great artwork and a really nice section of goodies and gadgets then also a total waste of money. But under the old expression of "immitation is the most sincerest form of flattery" I felt very gratified to find SW fans found my beloved old game worthy of mining for ideas and rather than to find an attitude of : "that worthless thing, what land fill did you dig that out of?" Not to trash SW RPG or WOTC, whether they are worthy of trashing or not, the point I really wanted to make was that is says something about Star Frontiers as a game that has been OOP and discontinued for over 25 years that it still has such a community of fans that continue to develope and promote the game AND that fans of other newer, slicker, and supported by awesome CGI based visual media type games would say, "Hey, they had great material- lets borrow from them." Which brings us back to the original question? Has Star Frontiers come of age? I would say a cautious yes- I'd be more enthusiastic about that yes when the Frontiersman has had some longevity and after the Frontier Space game is released. SECOND POST: I just reread my original post and my use of the word "copy" may have been poor Its obvious that ROTJ influenced the writers of Dramune Run but that module is its own man and not just a poor clone. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 24, 2009 - 8:52am | Yes, Star Frontiers has come of age...or maybe the people who played it have, yes?  As for the SW RPG, have yet to play Saga(tho from what I hear, it's a poor True20 clone, how true that is IDK), but I have played both the WEG version and Whizzards' originial d20 version, and I can safely say I prefer the fan-created True20 version created by ValhallaGH. If anyone's into T20, here's the link: http://gunrocksgamingrules.pbwiki.com/True+Star+Wars "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
January 24, 2009 - 4:05pm | Yes, Star Frontiers has come of age...or maybe the people who played it have, yes? After reading this... Star Frontiers as a game that has been OOP and discontinued for over 25 years ...I certainly began to feel that way! I too have regretably never seen the inside of a SW gamebook. As a SW nut back in high school (okay I'm still one today) I searched all over for the game but never found it. The stuff is just too #$!& expensive on E-Bay etc right now to even contemplate beginning, and I won't even get into the modern economy for more reasons not to start (the difference between a stockbroker and a pigeon is the pigeon can still make a deposit on a Lexus). But back to the SW fan site game. I found it interesting in some regards, but as I said in other threads I would probably pick other ships for a Gullwind. I mean if you're gonna copy something, do it all the way and find a craft that resembles the plagarized vessel better rather than a pokey bulk freighter that can barely move faster than an inebriated Hutt. Suffice it to say, if imitation is the best form of flattery this only confirms my prior statement about Dramune Run being the best ever material from the game. |
January 24, 2009 - 4:49pm | Hmmm, Talon Kaarde's ship(same as the SW Gullwind) booked something fierce. Speaking of the Dramune Run, I was kicking around the idea of running it from the POV of those on the McCoy and the Dirk.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
January 24, 2009 - 7:15pm | Umm, judging from character stats, this looks like it was played by a group into the WEG Star Wars.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
January 24, 2009 - 8:01pm | Hmmm, Talon Kaarde's ship(same as the SW Gullwind) booked something fierce. Speaking of the Dramune Run, I was kicking around the idea of running it from the POV of those on the McCoy and the Dirk.... Oooooooh....oooooooh! Now that is an idea. My volturnus campaign is on hold for 2-3 months but I was planning for the eorna to hire the PCs to organize their "space guard" for them and they had cut a deal for them to attend the royal marine accademy in the White Light system. After the plannaron base scenario I was going to run Eleanor Mores with the pre gen characters and once the emergency call goes out the regular PCs get dispatched. but starting the Gullwind scenario in White Light with the PCs trying to run them to ground for not heaving to for inspection. Very nice idea and no reason for the PCs to get the Gullwind as a story reward though I think depending on how the adventure ends and the gullwind captian not kicking the bucket right away he could will it to them after the SFKW-2-4 modules are finished. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 25, 2009 - 3:09am | Hmmm, Talon Kaarde's ship(same as the SW Gullwind) booked something fierce. Last guy I talked to that knew SW RPG said that the Action IV had comparable 1G acceleration. I'm just going by what I heard as I have no time with any of the SW games. http://swi.starwarsclub.org/traders/gullwind/gullwind.htm I was kicking around the idea of running it from the POV of those on the McCoy and the Dirk.... Talk about condemning an entire party  That reminds me of the old article in Dragon magazine about the "killer dungeon master" |
 January 25, 2009 - 7:18am | Talk about condemning an entire party That reminds me of Sandy Peterson, the guy who wrote the original Call of Cuthulu RPG and went on to have a hand in the first few Doom games. He'd drop you in a pit and leave you there just for fun. He once had the monsters destroy an entire wing of a hospital just to get one of the PC's that was inside recooperating. Appearantly, he was the ultimate sadistic GM. He grew up here in Provo with Tracy Hickman of Dragonlance novel fame. That reminds me of the old article in Dragon magazine about the "killer dungeon master" Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
January 25, 2009 - 12:51pm | Hmmm, Talon Kaarde's ship(same as the SW Gullwind) booked something fierce. Last guy I talked to that knew SW RPG said that the Action IV had comparable 1G acceleration. I'm just going by what I heard as I have no time with any of the SW games. I'm going strictly by EU(and the New Complete Guide to Vehicles and Vessels), which gave the Wild Karrde's performance as ×0.5 of lightspeed. I can't half blame you on the SW RPGs tho...especially after salvaging a friend's SW d20 campaign from Monty Haul Hell. Killer GM....I'll show ya a killer GM.  I couldn't find anything about performance there, at least nothing that stands out to the uninitiated. Last reference I saw about SW performance rated it in terms of "parsecs" and an A-Wing came in at 12 and the X-Wing and Millenium Falcon came in at around 8 or so (whatever that means...but that's the fastest reference I saw). Holy crap, you must have the Star Wars Encyclopedia...it took me forever and a day to find mine.... Talk about condemning an entire party That reminds me of the old article in Dragon magazine about the "killer dungeon master" That was the only prob I had with the Dramune Run as written, how the UPF ships managed to let themselves get ambushed so easily, and why the Courageous and the other UPF ships weren't waiting for the Gullwind and her escorts. 'Sides, I wouldn't run it exactly as written.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
January 25, 2009 - 12:53pm | Talk about condemning an entire party That reminds me of Sandy Peterson, the guy who wrote the original Call of Cuthulu RPG and went on to have a hand in the first few Doom games. He'd drop you in a pit and leave you there just for fun. He once had the monsters destroy an entire wing of a hospital just to get one of the PC's that was inside recooperating. Appearantly, he was the ultimate sadistic GM. He grew up here in Provo with Tracy Hickman of Dragonlance novel fame. That reminds me of the old article in Dragon magazine about the "killer dungeon master" I'm not a sadistic GM...but if the players get themselves into a bind through their own stupidity, be it on their own heads. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
January 25, 2009 - 1:01pm | Hmmm, Talon Kaarde's ship(same as the SW Gullwind) booked something fierce. Speaking of the Dramune Run, I was kicking around the idea of running it from the POV of those on the McCoy and the Dirk.... Oooooooh....oooooooh! Now that is an idea. My volturnus campaign is on hold for 2-3 months but I was planning for the eorna to hire the PCs to organize their "space guard" for them and they had cut a deal for them to attend the royal marine accademy in the White Light system. After the plannaron base scenario I was going to run Eleanor Mores with the pre gen characters and once the emergency call goes out the regular PCs get dispatched. but starting the Gullwind scenario in White Light with the PCs trying to run them to ground for not heaving to for inspection. Very nice idea and no reason for the PCs to get the Gullwind as a story reward though I think depending on how the adventure ends and the gullwind captian not kicking the bucket right away he could will it to them after the SFKW-2-4 modules are finished. Here's the thing...the Gullwind gets shot up near Minotaur, without the Minotaur militia getting involved, and then the Malthar's ships just let the Gullwind enter the White Light system without administering the coup de grace away from the Royal Marines, especially after killing off his crew. Why not start things off with the Gullwind emerging from the Void hotly pursued by the Nightshade, the Starhawk, the Drasimian, and maybe a couple of other ships, with the Minotaur militia in hot pursuit. Alternatety, the Gullwind heaves to, is boarded by the Osprey's boarding party, and they stumble onto the chukkahs("Hukka!" says Hukka to Tempest), when the Malthar's ships pop out of the Void, and all Hells break loose, as the Osprey finds herself far from Clarion with a lot of bad guys wanting to take the Gullwind without leaving witnesses. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
January 25, 2009 - 3:35pm | @will my original thought was to use the openning of the module where Gnarlus is trying to find a new crew and the bar scene where bad guys show up an a fight erupts. If I'm not mistaken the royal marines are also responsible for security on the station (even the ships crews are required to support station security if they see something going down). So Gnarlus manages to recruit a few npcs and the bad guys show up and a shoot out errupts and some Royal Marines respond and some are casualties, including a cousin of the royal family. Osprey is on wide patrol at the time but a report of the event is sent with orders to try to intercept 1 or more of the ships that blasted out of space dock during the aftermath. So you have the whole killing of a brother in arms plus very terse orders that could even be construed to follow said ships if they leave the system. The orders could specify which ships the killers got on (not the Gullwind) so the openning scene would be the Gullwind fleeing the gangster's ships with 1-2 assault scouts not too far behind (say 3-6 turns) but the Opsrey out front playing blocker. Play out the battle with the ganster ships likely to scatter once its obvious they'll have to take on 3 militia ships. and the Gullwind will keep going hell for leather and smoke a jump. If the Osprey isn't shot up to bad have the Leo arrive and the Captain, who I believe is also related to the royal family, order the other scouts to transfer assault rockets to the osprey to replenish fired ammo and he'll hand deliver the equivelent of letters of mark to the Osprey's crew. plus orders to try to intercept these ships which RM intelligence has linked to Outer Reach in Dramune, hopefully they can try to catch these ships before they reach Dramune but the are explicitly ordered to deliver the monarchs "displeasure with their actions with the most sternest methods possible" bringing them back dead or alive. Some extra freeze fields (for preserving prisoners dead or alive), extra atomic fuel, weapons and defenses, very official looking documents showing the osprey to have been leased to the PCs and that they are licensed bounty hunters. their unifroms are exchanged for civillian clothes. All the while these preparations are going on the astrogator from the Leo will temporarily be aboard the osprey to help work the math for void jump to greatly speed that task. and the players are off on a wild gullwind chase. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 25, 2009 - 3:44pm | Or the Gullwind doesn't go hell for leather and after an investigation where RM intel discovers the truth and the Monarch is 5 kinds of up set about a favorite cousin being killed by drug smugglers. The PCs will be detailed to help Gnarlus in his quest and they go aboard the Gullwind. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
January 25, 2009 - 4:06pm | That was the only prob I had with the Dramune Run as written, how the UPF ships managed to let themselves get ambushed so easily, and why the Courageous and the other UPF ships weren't waiting for the Gullwind and her escorts. 'Sides, I wouldn't run it exactly as written.... Natch...always gotta have a spin to make it work right. That's the premise in my reverse Volturnus adventure where players protray the Star Devils. As for the UPF ships getting taken so easily...remember that they're responding to rumors (or to a distress call depending on how the Hit & Run scenario played out). They have no idea what they're destined to be up against in Dramune, they're merely shadowing a civilian freight hauler. A frigate and assault scout are no mathc against three frigates/four assault scouts/two corvettes. As for the UPF strike force and Inner Reach vessels not joining in, neither has the "jursdiction" at the time. UPF charter mandates that they are not to get involved between interplanetary squabbles, so the strike force is out. Inner Reach doesn't want a war if they can avoid it, and won't press into one without proof of anything offensive. Once it is known for sure that chukkahs are being smuggled out/killed/exploited they have their proof, and once the UPF ships know that pirtes are involved they can get in on the action too. Hence the "intelligence gathering" mission of the Dirk & Melinda McCoy. They (UPF and Inner Reach) all suspect something, but it is unproven. |
January 25, 2009 - 5:17pm | Actually, it's a destroyer, but....I kinda see your point, Shadow. Seems you put as much thought into this idea as I did, jedi, awesome..... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
January 26, 2009 - 4:21am | Actually, it's a destroyer D'OH!!! And of all people I should know better too, what with hosting (I need to get back to rehosting that is) a game using the salvaged Melinda McCoy. |
January 26, 2009 - 6:41am | And of all people I should know better too, what with hosting (I need to get back to rehosting that is) a game using the salvaged Melinda McCoy.  (not me, I've got enough on my plate to more than keep me busy, I don't mind on of the games being stalled  ).Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
