 June 18, 2008 - 1:33pm | I have been thinking about the Star Frontiers setting. One of the things that is missing are maps of the planets. It would be nice to see what they look like. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
 June 18, 2008 - 2:12pm | I've thought a bit about it as I have several systems outside the Frontier designed. I never did settle on a system I really liked. For the most part I just use the hex grid like in SF0 to draw the map of the relevant region of the planet on although I don't limit one type of terrain to a hex. I have also just done free hand mercador projections of the entire planet. In the back of the GURPS Space book there is a triangular map projection for use in drawing the entire planet that basically breaks the sphere up into 20 different triangles and lays them out (Think a d20 unrolled) Inside each triangle is a hex grid that connect to adjacent triangles. It's called an "equal-area icosahedral" projection and is actually a very good way to represent the globe without getting too distorted. Of course you could always go to larger numbers of triangles to get less and less distortion. I always thought this would be a good way to do it. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 June 18, 2008 - 3:47pm | Several of the Star Frontiersmans have articles with planet maps. I'd like to find out how they're done. I'm occasionally working on a System Brief for Dramune, and I'd like to do some for Inner and Outer Reach. "Rome didn't build an empire by having meetings. They did it by killing those who stood in their way." |
June 18, 2008 - 4:18pm | Terl, That is the standard that Traveller started using. The unfolded 20 sided icosahedral map. Then they had a standard sector map to locate the star system. Maybe a good standard? Gullwind, I agree. I like the way those planet maps look too. Maybe we could combine the color map with the icosahedral map? Does anyone know how they were done? At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
June 18, 2008 - 4:35pm | You are right, they are in Traveller as well. I knew I had seen them somewhere else on my bookshelf  . I'm not sure how the planet maps in the StarFrontiersman were made. We probably need to ask w00t or CCR.Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 June 18, 2008 - 5:47pm | I'm not sure how the planet maps in the StarFrontiersman were made. We probably need to ask w00t or CCR. I *think* they used the Fractal World Generator from Dire Press. Its on the LINKS page. Or try this: http://direpress.bin.sh/tools/ Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
June 18, 2008 - 6:01pm | That definitely looks like it. But which projection did they use? Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
June 18, 2008 - 7:20pm | That definitely looks like it. But which projection did they use? I would guess Mercator or Square. I am leaning more towards Mercator. Hopefully one of them will let us know... soon.
Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
 June 19, 2008 - 7:43am | Mission to Alcazzar has a planet map that is pretty neat, if not very accurate. That is a way to go if you are not trying to be overly precise. I always favored the GURPS Space maps and drew up a few myself for Star Frontiers. Cassadine system and such. |
 June 19, 2008 - 8:06am | It is the issue of a really cool, scientific-geographic map versus a referee friendly, but rather ugly, hex-map (like Alcazzar and Volturnus). Of course, who is to say you can't have both. You could hand out the cool looking, but kind-of hard to figure out maps to the players, and keep a ref hexed map for yourself with all of the key goodies and encounter areas on it. Having said that, I would welcome any kind of cartography that people want to do on the Federation worlds. If someone wants to do this, I would like to request doing the maps of the sparsely populated Outpost worlds FIRST, because that is where most of my adventures take place. But that's just me being greedy...  If you want to map Gran Quivera first, be my guest...Speaking of the Frontiersman - these would be GREAT plug-ins as bonuses to our "subscribers". Every issue has a Frontier planet map in it. There has been some of this already, but I have noticed that they have not had too much in the way of man-made facilites such as highways and cities. Make sure to include that stuff if you want to go about this. |
June 19, 2008 - 10:20am | I downloaded the demo fro Fractal Terrain by Pro Fantasy. It is very cool. It is very flexible. you can change the map up to any projection you want there are 20 listed. Flick a switch and you can make a rainfall, climate, altitude or gaia map. chesk it out: http://www.profantasy.com/products/ft.asp At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
June 19, 2008 - 11:38am | Does it make gaming hex maps? |
June 19, 2008 - 12:30pm | not sure, I am still playing with it. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
 June 19, 2008 - 2:29pm | It is the issue of a really cool, scientific-geographic map versus a referee friendly, but rather ugly, hex-map (like Alcazzar and Volturnus). Of course, who is to say you can't have both. You could hand out the cool looking, but kind-of hard to figure out maps to the players, and keep a ref hexed map for yourself with all of the key goodies and encounter areas on it. Having said that, I would welcome any kind of cartography that people want to do on the Federation worlds. If someone wants to do this, I would like to request doing the maps of the sparsely populated Outpost worlds FIRST, because that is where most of my adventures take place. But that's just me being greedy... If you want to map Gran Quivera first, be my guest...Speaking of the Frontiersman - these would be GREAT plug-ins as bonuses to our "subscribers". Every issue has a Frontier planet map in it. There has been some of this already, but I have noticed that they have not had too much in the way of man-made facilites such as highways and cities. Make sure to include that stuff if you want to go about this. I was actually going to map Clarion first...or, rather, transfer it from yellowing grpah paper to computer file.... A planet map in each issue...good thinking, Brian. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 June 19, 2008 - 9:49pm | If someone wants to do this, I would like to request doing the maps of the sparsely populated Outpost worlds FIRST, because that is where most of my adventures take place. Okay, here's Laco: 20 triangles worth of desert terrain, throw one StarPort into the mix somewhere. Seriously, I've never seen the 20-triangle bit before (despite some Traveller RPG time) but it sounds like a cool format. |
 June 19, 2008 - 10:44pm | the Icosahedral projection (the 20 triangle projection) has been used in Traveller, Space Opera, and 2300. It predates gaming use... but the simplicity of it for game use has made it quite well received by players of those games. |
 June 20, 2008 - 8:00am | I'm not sure how the planet maps in the StarFrontiersman were made. We probably need to ask w00t or CCR. I *think* they used the Fractal World Generator from Dire Press. Its on the LINKS page. Or try this: http://direpress.bin.sh/tools/ This is what I've used and I believe CCR used them for some of the early planets. He will have to respond as I don't know if he made up most of the maps or if they were submitted. From my module: http://starfrontiers.us/node/1558  |
June 20, 2008 - 8:22am | Maps like that look nice, but they are not game maps. They need to be supplemented with hexed maps. If we are going to include planet maps in each new, smaller issue of the Frontiersman, then we should include a hexed map as well. It does not necessarily have to cover the whole planet - maybe just a "hot-spot" of potential adventuring. This could be an unexplored region, or one overrun by bandits/smugglers/pirates, or a tense border area. Sometimes just looking at a map like that, with some minimal background information, is enough to cook up a campaign scenario. |
June 20, 2008 - 11:01am | Someone on the dNd forums posted that they use Google Maps or Google Earth to find a piece of earth they like and then remove names and such. Check it out. http://flickr.com/photos/jeffme/2360229170/ As Impy pointed out - maps needs hex overlays which are very easy todo with Gimp or Word. BTW, there have been zero submissions for Issue 9 that have maps. If some would like to throw together a systems topology map for a couple of the space-type submissions that would be nifty! |
June 20, 2008 - 11:15am | Larry - Either that, or someone could make a hexed-out map of some of the previous planet profiles from the Frontiersman. I'm pretty sure we already have some groundwork in this regard with the previous issues. |
June 20, 2008 - 12:59pm | Is there a template for the Icosahedral map (20 sided breakdown)? I'd like to try my hand at a full planet. Histran coms to mind...it was a pivotal point in my campaign. |
June 24, 2008 - 4:01pm | http://pps00.cryst.bbk.ac.uk/course/section5/quaternary/virus/t1.jpg Is this the format that was used in those other games? If so I'd like to give Histran a spin with it (and Theseus afterwards for a try at a heavily populated planet) I presume the center strip represents the equatorial region and the top and bottom the polar caps? |
June 24, 2008 - 5:35pm | That's a low resolution one, yes. Here is a higher resolution one out of the GURPS Space book. The scan is a little crappy as my scanner (an old parallel port model) is on it's last legs. The site scaled it down by a factor of two and I scaled it down by another factor of two in the display. If you right click and view image you will see it at the full scale the site scaled it to. I have the higher resolution one if you want. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
June 24, 2008 - 5:32pm | If you use that one, multiply the planet's diameter by 0.07 to get the distance across one hex. If my scanner was working I would have scanned the entire planetary record page. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
June 24, 2008 - 7:39pm | Cool, thanks Terl. This ought to be fun... |
June 25, 2008 - 2:56pm | Wow Tom! Wowowowow! I see this as a good omen. |
June 26, 2008 - 1:48am | Well...I tackled the high population world first, here's my interpretation of Minotaur: |
June 26, 2008 - 8:08am | Well...I tackled the high population world first, here's my interpretation of Minotaur: Looks cool Shadowshack. How did you color in the hexes? At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
June 26, 2008 - 1:50pm | Thanks! I did an overlay with MS paint, using an overhead shot of a city for Maze, overhead of an ice flow for the polar cap, of an ocean for the sea, and a simple color fill for the desert end. And of course had to make sure the opposite edges lined up LOL |
June 26, 2008 - 3:21pm | Nice write-up, although the astronomer in me (remember that I have an Astronomy Ph.D) was screaming after the first two sentences in the Planet History section . Here is why: 1) This one was no big deal but seemed a little odd. 7th of 11 planets makes it really crowded in close to the star. As a G1 star is only slightly more massive than our own Sun (a G2 star) the orbital distance from Minotaur to Theseus would be about the same as that from Earth to Sol, especially since you gave it about the same average tempurature as the Earth. Actually, I think the average tempurature is a little higher than Earth's which would require it to be at the same distance or closer to the star. Thus putting it as the seventh object out means you have 6 planets inside that orbit. Tight indeed. Nothing says it can't be done but they probabaly aren't that big as there isn't a lot of material in there to make planets with. 2) Unfortunately, it is not really possible to always have the southern pole always pointed toward the sun. Especially since it is spinning so fast (15 h days). Effectively the planet is like a giant gyroscope and it always wants to keep it's axis pointed in the same direction in space. To keep it pointed towards the sun would take a tremendous amount of torque to keep that constantly shifting. There really isn't anything to provide that torque. Of course that destroys your whole ecology. A few other things of note about the system. Based on the planetary diameter and gravity, Minotaur is about 17% more massive than Earth but also 16% smaller. That means it as a higher average density at 10.9 g/cm^3. For comparison, the Earth's average density is 5.5 g/cm^3 or about half. This means that Minotaur has a huge iron core and a relatively small mantle. Finally, the population has to be pretty huge to support a large city that extends in a band all the way around the planet and several thousand kilometers wide. This is one of those areas where each referee has his own idea but the population required to need that much city is probabaly more than I would have in my entire Frontier. I always have thought of the Frontier as fairly low population density even on the "high" population worlds. (Seems we discussed this in another thread somewhere. Here it is http://www.starfrontiers.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=864). It's completely possible to have populations this large (as I showed in that thread) but I like to keep mine smaller. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
June 26, 2008 - 6:19pm | What suggestions would you drop for this to be more realistic? Moving it closer to the sun, I get that...how close though? Say 4th or fifth, or even closer? And then...raising the length of day? Increase diameter? Both? As for the polar facing I sort of went by the Alcazzar description and took it for a different spin (literally), and as you noted my whole ecological view depends on this facing. |
