 April 7, 2008 - 4:13am | I'm planning to do a contemporary version of the cult film Logan's Run (1967) using SF rules. Synopsis of alternate reality: -June 1988 : NASA starts the full scale Mars base simulation RETURN TO EDEN in the Nevada desert. 200 scientists, technicians and support personnel are sent into an underground complex covered by a semi-spherical geodesic glass dome. The simulation is scheduled to last 2 years. The complex is self-sufficient and powered by a nuclear reactor. -June 1989 : The hardline politics of Ronald Regan and Mickhail Gorbatchev lead to an international nuclear crisis. Missiles are launched and humanity is pretty much wiped out... Just before the end the EDEN communication computers receive 1 terabite of compressed information from NASA. After that total radio silence from the outside. -June 1990 : A full year after the nuclear holocaust the scientist under the dome have rigged all the systems to continue working. Programs have been put in place to perpetuate the human race until the planet becomes clean. Every year an expedition is sent outside to evaluate survival odds. -1995 : Scientific authorities determine that the irradiation is so severe that human settlement outside the dome is impossible until year 2115. Laws are passed to limit life at age 40. At that point the citizens must willfully submit to euthanesia. Because of the short duration of life a majority of the population is more and more consumed by the desire to experiment the pleasures of life instead of working. Scientific research is scaled back to a few individuals who are permitted to live longer outside the knowledge of the population. These 25 overseers (and their descendants) manage the destiny of the human race over the next three 40-year generations. - 2099 : A survey team is sent out to evaluate levels of irradiation. Crops are planted and harvested at the end of summer. Result : Just above normal radiation levels. The overseers secretly start a 14 year program to train 50 individuals to become the first settlers of New Earth. - 2115 : The settlers are sent forth to establish a community outside the dome. Campaign begins at this point. ----- Question 1 : What level of technology have the human reached in 2115 under these conditions? Question 2 : What's your take on what is waiting for them outside? Tks in advance for your hints and suggestions ! «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs |
 April 7, 2008 - 12:48pm | This sounds like a good campaign idea. Gamma Dawn rules could come in handy for this kind of game... strikes me as closer to Gamma World than Star Frontiers. Q1 & Q2 together: Tech levels would be tentatively the same as before holocaust... the issue is loss of infrastructure. No power, no communications, no internet, etc... but many preserved sources of technology would be present. In fact, I just watched a show recently on History Channel (Life After People), where Hoover Dam would likely run automonously for quite some time after the loss of people... which makes your campaign start at a reasonable location for characters to quickly pick up on the dormant tech/infrastructure. A big arc of your campaign could be the restoration of portions of the local power grid from the hoover complex. You could also hav hidden government facilities under the dam (like seen in recent Transformers movie - but I would leave off the Robots). To add a twist, you could have Roswell/Area51 aliens (Fraal done in SFman Mag) returning concurently to these events, who are looking to harvest the Earth since most civilization is gone now. You could substitute or add any of the other SF races as additional players in this situation, arriving to counter the efforts of the Fraal (who may have engineered the whole conflict to begin with). anyhow, some ideas to work with for now.. share your efforts here. <insert witty comment here> |
 April 7, 2008 - 4:58am | Firstly, the number of generations would be around 6 - 7, depending on when the women of this colony gave birth. If the age limit is 40, you can bet it would be as young as possible. Secondly, I think the technology would drop to Stone age times with a few exceptions, where knowledge was carefully guarded and used; in this alternative world, knowledge is power. Work is calling me away, but are you planning to follow the film/series? This opens up some more scope. I know the series was silly, but edited carefully, these could be useful. |
April 7, 2008 - 8:44am | A similar kind of movie which could be a little fuel for your idea, is the movie "the Island", although it is based on ignorant clones rather than a population with the potential knowledge of previous civilization. If your population group consists of folks like this, then they will have no knowledge of events, and might not even realize that the outside is/was accessible... ... oh, and it is always nice to watch a movie with Scarlet Johansen in it. <insert witty comment here> |
 April 7, 2008 - 10:58am | Yeah this has Gamma World written all over it. IMO, Star Frontiers is more of a happy/civilized SciFi system. Not that it can't be used for a radiated, blown up place, but it's just not ideal for that. |
 April 7, 2008 - 11:25am | Yeah this has Gamma World written all over it. IMO, Star Frontiers is more of a happy/civilized SciFi system. Not that it can't be used for a radiated, blown up place, but it's just not ideal for that. We played one of your campaigns in a blown up prison city!  Hehe @Bio - your posting kinda reminds me of Battlefield Earth |
April 7, 2008 - 12:43pm | Sure Larry - but you spent the first part of the campaign getting OUT of the nasty, blown-up place. Enter Sandmen... |
April 7, 2008 - 4:26pm | Thanks all for the input! I must says that its the d100 I like. After reading it again for the first time in 20 some years I marvel at its elegant simplicity. I'm fully aware of Gamma World since I bought the original version way back. But isn't the lattest Gamma World d20? I've had my cup of tea with that system. Creating high level NPCs is excruciating. Aren't RPG rules mechanics an object in itself. Meaning, if well thought out it can be divorced from its intended setting? If so any good RPG system with a few tweaks should be able to support any narrative. And there is Gamma Dawn (waven't read it yet) About «The Island», The tv series and Battle Field Earth : The Island - of course (I even saw it during my first visit in NY - Scarlet ... yum, yum!) I'll keep that in mind. I barely remember the Logan's Run TV series. A few flashs only but I do remember I felt cheated. Now, Battle Field Earth! Travola disguised as a Klingon.... Barf! But its true there are resemblances with my posting althought I wasn't thinking of that movie while writing. Hover Dam : Very interesting! I didn't realise it was in Nevada. About technology : Wouldn't the «colony» remain somewhat at the level of technology in 1988? Remember these are all NASA people. Its true that with time things would break down and spare parts may not be readily available. They would certainly better off than the few «outside survivors» because they have a working infrastructure which is the basis of any advanced civilisation. Remember that in the case of the colony we are talking of a structured/managed «apocalypse». They could probably make low tech guns (6 barrels) and rudimentary grenades? elpotof : 6-7 generations looks good (give birth between 18 and 25 - 2 childs max per couple) smoothRK : The alien twist is good. A campaign needs a moraly clear enemy you can shoot at will... Shooting human survivors can be more problematic.... «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs |
 April 8, 2008 - 3:03pm | I like this idea. I don't see a problem using Star Frontiers. Sure, using the gamma dawn book would be a cool idea too, but SF is light on storyline (it has some backstory elements described in a handful of books, with no metaplot at all to corner the game into a single genre) and you can drop any kind of story into these rules and make them work. I've done it. My games tend to be a little grittier than most, a little less black and white... with a lot of moral dilemmas (mostly because my target audience is my children, and I find it interesting to test them in these ways). I'd say that the "Sandman" uniform is a skeinsuit of some sort, though Logan's gets pretty easily banged up in the movie (maybe it's just a Security Skeinsuit from issue 1 of the StarFrontiersman?). The DS ("Deep Sleep") pistol used by the sandmen made a green muzzle-flash but shot an invisible beam (if I recall correctly). I wonder what type of weapon it would be? Since the technology of the genre lacked any sort of defense against energy weapons, it may have just been a blaster of some kind. Maybe use the "Blastpistol" from issue 1 of the StarFrontiersman? If you allowed it to be a conventional laser pistol the potential of doing 10d10 damage is too much when no defenses exist!! *wipes drool from keyboard* mmmmm Scarlett Johansson... I think they should remake Logan's Run and use Scarlett. Not because the movie needs redone... but because I just want to see her in something. Doesn't really matter what. 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
April 8, 2008 - 3:39pm | *wipes drool from keyboard* mmmmm Scarlett Johansson... I think they should remake Logan's Run and use Scarlett. Not because the movie needs redone... but because I just want to see her in something. Doesn't really matter what. 
«Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs |
April 8, 2008 - 8:26pm | If I may be so bold, bio - I would concentrate on your story and build the tech and other jazz around it. Fit the doodads to suit your needs, not your story around the doodads. I have always found that the tech just flows once you have your plotline, subplots, and events. And yes, SF could definitely handle this. |
April 9, 2008 - 4:02am | Excellent advice IMP. Its what I do usually do. Only this time I felt I needed a sounding board. My two questions at the start of this tread were : Question 1 : What level of technology have the humans in the dome reached in 2115 under these conditions? (same, regression, slight advances, major advances) Question 2 : What's your take on what is waiting for them outside? I have my own answer to these questions. Just felt it would be good to ask what you guys thought about it. Tks All for the input  «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs |
 April 9, 2008 - 5:00am | I always got the impression that the tech didnt change much in the domes. Seems like everything was automated and provided. Outside of the Sandmen and Runners, you never really saw anyone working. I cant recall if there was a cleanup crew for the bodies or if that was an automated system as well. Everyone was too busy enjoying a short life to have too many original thoughts. So, to answer your question, by 2115 I dont see tech levels being any better than what we have today. Maybe slight improvements in some areas. Electric vehicles would be very efficient. Small hovercraft. I can see medical tech having improved exponentially; i.e. breakthroughs in recreational drugs would have led to better useful meds. Outside: tribes of wandering hunters, cannibals, medieval towns, robber barons, techie enclaves, cults that worship technology and try to collect all they can (especially if it works), cults that try to destroy all tech above medieval levels (since that is what caused the downfall in the first place.) Raiders of all sorts. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
April 9, 2008 - 5:18am | Q1: Same, some advances in areas of Medicine (from strict strict strict population controls - only the absolutely fittest/healthiest/smartest contribute to gene pool). Advances in hydroponics and food supplies. Computer/Robotics advances are likely if the population uses computers regularily. On the other hand, Military PSA will suffer, as these Overseers will likely not want populations that could rebel easily - most/all skills gone here. Skill with various technology will be completely gone... you might treat all Tech found outside as Alien devices unless it specifically exists within the dome. Q2: After watching the show on History channel "Life After People" (btw, very insightful for this kind of campaign), the folks who leave the dome will encounter wilderness everywhere, with only the slightest traces of pre-existing human... we just dont build stuff durable like pyramids out in the desert anymore. Everything rusts/breaks/wears down quickly. There would be few structures even standing. Possibly some underground areas. This could vary if you are going to have remnant survivors who may have kept certain areas maintained... at least from the standpoint of structures and some useful devices such as hand held weaponry. Areas with heavy military presence may have surviving militia-like survivor remnants (movie Postman with Kevin Costner)... these would radiate out from the major shelters such as Cheyenne Mountain (NORAD - fyi I live here in Colorado Springs), under Washington DC, Area 51 (presumed), etc. and then you might have remnant population groups coming from areas such as remote islands, the far north territories of Canada, etc. who all would have begun exploring previously radiated areas long before true safe conditions would be met. To add more SciFi elements, these humans may be slightly different with better STA and degrees of protection/resistance from radiation hazards. From observations of the Chernobel region, even though there is a dead zone, the ecosystem bounces back very quickly - even with large game animals... so I would expect the same. Given the gaps that already exist in the natural ecosystem here-and-now, you could probably play around with what animals have become dominant predators -- the history channel show cites that zoos create a wild-card that cannot be predicted well. If the animals could escape and survive the 'blasts' then they certainly have the potential to survive otherwise. For another way to preserve more old tech - you might modify your holocaust method. Perhaps instead of true nuclear war, you use a devastating plague or engineered nerve gas kind of death... possibly think 28 Days/Weeks Later style. The buildings and all still fall after a number a years of no maintenance but you will probably have more chance of locating preserved materials here and there... and it gives you the option of small outbreaks here and there, and preserves the natural ecosystem. anyhow, just more fluff to think about. <insert witty comment here> |
April 9, 2008 - 5:39am | I finally caught an episode of Beyond Humans. It was a very insiteful program. My main inspirations for an Aftermath-type game come from: 1. Fallout 1 & 2. Computer rpg starting with survivor in a big shelter going out looking for replacement water parts. 2. Deathlands series of books. I listen to the audio books while on the road. takes place a little over 100 years after a massive nuclear exchange. Mutations run rampant. Wide variety of locals and tech levels. 3. Darwins World rpg. D20 setting. But lots of information. There is a ocuple of interesting pages on domed city ideas. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
April 9, 2008 - 7:02am | I would imagine that the dome would have limited weapons tech, but very sophisticated life support systems. The Sandman pistols and maybe suits would be about it. But the food growing, water/sewage, child care, de-radiation (which you can choose to have or not), and maintenence would be on a very high level - probably comparable to an actual Star Frontiers city. It would be at least equivalent to the best-run city on Earth today, whichever that is... Finally, there would have to be some security systems to keep people out. Heavy lasers with electronic locks would do the trick. RENEW! RENEW! RENEW!! |
April 9, 2008 - 7:05am | And wasn't that Jessica Alba in The Island? Still yum-yum, of course... |
April 10, 2008 - 8:30am | And wasn't that Jessica Alba in The Island? No, definitely Scarlet... but we certainly could use a movie with both of them in it... naked... whoops, was that out loud?Still yum-yum, of course... <insert witty comment here> |
 April 10, 2008 - 9:11am | What's waiting out there? Damnation Alley! Read the book! An older edition before the movie came out! Level of tech in the dome? You need to do a Tolkienesque back story. I remember Biodome. It failed miserably. They had to resupply it at least twice. You need to set down in writing; What level of technology did they start with? 1989, I remember it well. Apple!!G, PC-AT, SLOW!! SuperLow memory( A 10 Meg EXTERNAL hard drive was considered Very roomy!!. Cell phones were the size of a brick and didn't work well. The 80286 (5 generations of chips back) was just beginning to come out then. What resources under the desert can they dig up? Taping into the dam for electricity would be doable, but problematical. The general level of tech in LR was a good deal higher than 1989 anyway. The people who were to renew floated up and were zapped out of existance, vaporized(no clean up needed.) Those laser pistols, wierd as they were, were WAY beyond us! You need to write atleast 20,000 words detailing the story that went on before the story line you are wanting to play. I see no reason not to use SF rules. Butr, you could use the Gamma World conversions for androids, cyborgs and mutants that are to be found in one of the articles Tim has over at SF.com. If you haven't gotten into that stuff yey, DO SO! Great stuff. Tanks alot, Here comes the Cavalry, The comming of the Zethera, loads of goodness. I REALLY like your idea, but maybe it should be a little later, like mabey, Remembering the failed experiments of the late 1980's the US government in 2020 decided to build an underground complex to attempt to start a sustainable environment. The worstening environmental and political situation convinced the majority of Congress to support this project. Trillons of dollars were invested and 5 years later a group of scientists, educators and engineers was sent in. A terrorist plot simultaniously detonated 3 dirty bombs in New York, Biejing, and Moscow. Before the misunderstanding could be straightened out, a nuclear echange thet annailated the civilizations of the northern hemisphere. In a last minute podcast from the Government sent trilloins of bytes of information to the memory banks of Neo-biodome. Or eles I would expect the survivors to deteriorate in culture and tech over the time frame you put forward. There would be very little to live on in the site you stated. There might be burrowing, seperation into tribes, internacine struggles for resources, cannibalism, raids to steal women, and more fun for the inhabitants. Cultures in resource poor regions like the Arctic or the Desert turn towards isolation, jelous guarding of resources, raider type social structure, incesant conflict for resources, social conservitism, lack of social and economic mobility, etc. Or you could ignore all this and tell a whumping good tale without worrying about the nicities like what I have just written about. This is your game, your creation, and the true goal is for you and your players to have fun! So, Have fun!! ;) FIAWOL
TANSTAAFL!! |
April 10, 2008 - 9:15am | Then of course you have the City Computer, running things from Sandman Headquarters. That thing must be very fat - definitely along the lines of a SF computer. RENEW! RENEW! RENEW!! The computer is your friend! You trust the computer don't you? You are not Paranoid are you? FIAWOL
TANSTAAFL!! |
April 10, 2008 - 2:49pm | WOW! thanks guys! Now I have to sit down and write the thing! First I have to decide how close I want to stick to the original movie. Parriah, your input is great but 20 000 words is a bit over the top ! I'll settle for a solid 5000 words. By the way guys go read my SF mini-saga in the Forum section of the Milky Way Map project. Its full of action, treachery, evil aliens and all... Mouhahahahahahaha! «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs |
April 11, 2008 - 4:12am | And wasn't that Jessica Alba in The Island? Still yum-yum, of course... No she was in «Into the Bleu». Stupid movie but great underwater bikini shots... «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs |
 January 24, 2010 - 2:11pm | Concerning tech levels on the outside: Did anyone ever read Lucifer's Hammer? where a comet breaks up and strikes the earth with multiple strikes. Great look at that from the survialist angle and and the science angle. One of the scientist from JPL stocks up on zip lock bags and moth balls and stores his entire library including literature classic (Alice in Wonderland) in zip locks with a moth ball each and chucks the whole thing in his sceptic tank for same keeping- thought was that no one would bother it there. Always thought that was a unique way to save civilization by "chucking" into a tank of s*%t! He eventually ends up with the good guys and they recover the treasure trove. and they manage to... oooops dont want to spoil it if you hadn't read it. I wonder if Bio has done anything with this idea? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 January 25, 2010 - 7:59am | Back in the day young ladies would get married at 13 and have kids by 14, almost like today with kids at 12 getting in trouble and having a child by 13. Sounds sick today, but back then it was a world where most folks did not live past 50, it was a mater of survival. So with your life span limit of 40, and the breakdown to at least medieval society level, I'd say you could have at-least 3-5 kids per woman/couple. But you also overlooked something, When you have a "colony in a bottle" scenario you also have to limit the birth rate along with the death rate. Especially if you have limited resources. You could use this, when NASA set up the experiment, they where testing out a new Geo-thermal power rig, where they had sunk a shaft deep down and taped into the earths thermal generators, an idea that was proposed in the 70-80's for use on Mars. And when the bombs went off they just lost contacted. Also you have to figure out if any bombs explodes within EMP range, cause it could blow a lot of electronic gear that's not shielded. You can even go with the idea of a top secret underground base/ Vault/ lab like out of Andromeda strain, a multi level underground base that was fully stock with every scrap of knowledge and with complete faculties to rebuild the American dream. that would stop the slide into the stone age a little. I'd say that the tech level would plateau out and stay unchanged in some fields. And that the rule of "Mother of necessity" could cause some advances in some fields of tech. Plus Logan's run is slated to be remade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan's_Run for info. if you like life after people check out the web site they have a few web only segment's that are great. your idea also brings to mind a movie I saw as a kid in the drive in, a group of folks are sealed into a underground base to live for x amount of days and they can't get out till the locks open, well to there horror, a colony of super intelligent rabid (?) Bats are literally next door and a crack opens up and the bats start feeding/ attacking the people. I can't remember the name of it but I remember scenes from it. I'd loved to see a remake of Bound staring Johanson and Alba ooooh boy! But I can settle for seeing Johanson playing Black widow in Ironman 2 this spring. Mmm Scarlet in latex body suit..... Gold is for the mistress-silver for the maid-copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.But Iron-Cold Iron- is master of them all |
 January 28, 2010 - 6:23am | I suggest reading the original Logan's Run book, as it goes deeper into the lifestyle of dome life (eg: No smoking, AT ALL!). If you are going with a "hard science" setting (Max-Max, and Life After People), go with Star Frontier, but if you what a "science fantasy" setting (Thundarr the Barbarian, and Kamandi: the Last Boy on Earth), then go with Gamma World (or Mutant Future, if you what it more available). *wipes drool from keyboard* mmmmm Scarlett Johansson... I think they should remake Logan's Run and use Scarlett. Not because the movie needs redone... but because I just want to see her in something. Doesn't really matter what. Unlike The Island, we get to see Jenny Agutter (Jessica 6) in all her glory! And not just her boobs - EVERYTHING! Not bad for a movie that is rated PG. ;P Its a dame shame they could not incorporate her outfit on all the female extras (they wanted to, but the logistics of keeping everyone covered kept them from doing so): 
CleanCutRogue's head would explode if the see Johansson in this number! Dame that would be sexy!!! |
 January 31, 2010 - 2:40am | Yup -- I've read (and liked) most of the Pournelle / Niven collaborations. Potentially Island in a Sea of Time (http://hem.bredband.net/b104699/books/brucebaugh/preview.html) as an example of a modern community needing to survive on their own (sent the Island of Nantucket from 1998CE to 1250BCE. First worry is making enough food. Then trying to get all the infrastructure in place -- the tools to create the tools to create the materials to create the tools to create the stuff you want.... Or the 1632 series (send a West Virginia town from the late 90's to 1632 in German (30 years War.) 1632 is available from the Baen free library at http://www.baen.com/library/ And yes, I like alternative history style books. |
