 March 12, 2008 - 6:14pm | I *loved* finding the www.starfrontiersman.com site when it first appeared (and didn't even have that address). It was a dream come true. And every Star Frontiersman magazine has been a breath of fresh air. And then this site came available, and it seems like the air has grown stagnant again. It was three months between issues 6 and 7 and it's been nearly 5 months since issue 8. I don't visit this site because frankly it's too complicated and it seems to truly be a 'development site' and not a 'product site'. So I keep tuning in to starfrontiersman.com looking for updates, and there is none. So I'm wondering, has this site and all the numerous projects killed off the "Revival"? When it was just the Star Frontiersman, people had one place to channel their creativity, so they channeled it, and it was exciting! But now, it seems that this site hosts a bazzilion different directions for people to scatter their creativity in, and nothing gets created. Right now at least one of you is out there saying "well why don't you help contribute and finish something?" My answer is: I'm not creative like you folks are. I love to enjoy your work. Charge me for it if you wish, I'd gladly pay. So I ask, and I hope you'll think about it: is this site a bad idea? Does fragmenting the creativity actually put all the creativity at risk of not being 'produced'? Would it be better to produce magazine filled with some creativity than to produce nothing at all? As a Star Frontiers fan, I'd love to consume your creativity, but right now I'm starving. Your devoted fan, Rob |
 March 12, 2008 - 8:59pm | I feel exactly the opposite. The Star Frontiers community was nearly dead before this site came about. Now, this site has more than 300 members in just six months. The thing you may be focused on is activity in the primary forums, but you have to know that there is a forum for every project and a lot of projects in development. You are concerned that nothing is being produced, but nothing could be further from the truth. I have six books in the making. One should be done in August. As for the production of the Star Frontiersman, its mastermind, Bill, recently changed jobs and moved his entire family to a new state. He couldn't keep things rolling during that time. Now he has a backlog of requests on the site and is working on issue #8 while still working the new job and attending to his family. If it's a little slow right now, it's forgiveable. But I'm sure once he's done with this issue, life will pick back up here. Also, Bill did all the reformatting of the previous materials for AD, KH, ZG, and several modules. You need to recognize that these were just taking existing text and formatting it and maybe adding a few words in a Foreword and a few rules added to the back of the rulebooks. Nothing more. The same for Gamma Dawn. Actually creating a rulebook is a LOT more difficult. It takes time and a lot of effort. We could spit them out, but the quality would suffer. After AER (Alpha Dawn 25th Anniversary Edition Rulebook) is released, the long awaited Beta Dawn will be released a few months later. If you check the schedule for production, you will see that the plan is for releases to be pretty regular after the release of AER. As for future issues, Bill will be setting up a staff to help from now on. Yes, there was no staff before, and all the work was done by one man. This site was set up by that man and is the reason why issues have been sparse for the last 3 issues. I think we can all cut him slack. There's only so much one man can do. The revival is far from dead. It's bigger than ever and people, I think, are excited. As for the complexity of the site, yes it is a little complicated, but I don't think it is too complex. However, I will be suggesting to remove the forums from the projects and having all future project posts appear in the main forum. The forums for each project were originally my idea, and I recognize now that it was a mistake. Activity needs to be seen in the Game forum. When that happens, you'll see an appearance of increase in activity. You might also check out the options in your Account profile. If it looks too busy, you can remove some options to simplify it a little more. I am able to navigate everything from my drop-down menus on the left (an option in the Account profile). If you have suggestions in the Support forum about how to simplify this site, Bill will be more than willing to hear it. Glad to have you here.  Look around. To check out the books in progress I was referring to, see my profile. |
 March 16, 2008 - 10:48am | What he said :-P 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
March 16, 2008 - 1:00pm | btw: http://starfrontiers.us/sfman8 3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our
vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time. |
 March 16, 2008 - 6:19pm | This cite is all about ideas...Got any ideas that people might like? Post 'em and watch your idea grow! We do at times get rough on each other--I do not like this, he does not like that. You will never know if you do not try. Keep an open mind and enjoy everything that the Revival has to offer. I have only been here for a short time and don't have much time to do things that I would like and have not played the game in 1,000 years--But this is a good web cite for FANS of SF. Sergeant |
 March 16, 2008 - 11:24pm | I have thought similar thoughts before. I see how many members this site has, but on the surface, it looks like nothing is being produced. With many projects you have to join to see anything being produced, and that is a lot of hassle. Also, starfrontiersman.com was marked as the distribution center for the products of projects on this site... yet nothing has been released there except the Digital Remasters and the Frontiersman itself. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think Corjay was a bit hasty and perhaps zealous in his reply to Jellyboy. To an outsider it really might look like nothing is happening. Why have none of the projects produced a finished product, ready for release? Why are there so many people who join the site and then do nothing? Rather than condemnations, of course, I believe these are questions we should use to provoke some thought and examine what we're doing. Naturally, I don't have much room to talk -- I don't use the site's project features, I just contribute to the Frontiersman. But I'm as dedicated to the Revival as any of the rest of you, so I think that when someone speaks up, we should listen and not just dismiss that person's concerns. If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. -- Carl Sagan |
March 17, 2008 - 1:39am | Also, starfrontiersman.com was marked as the distribution center for the products of projects on this site... yet nothing has been released there except the Digital Remasters and the Frontiersman itself. As I said, it takes a lot of dedication to create a new rulebook. To add to that, few people have that kind of dedication. There are about seven other projects that are books not my own. Besides those, there are several projects meant to be used as permanent online tools. In fact, we have over 30 projects in production on this site. A few are dead, while others are just sluggish. But I'm the only one who contributes regularly to my own projects and makes regular effort to get others involved. Why? Because either 1) I'm the only one with the time, or 2) I'm the only one dedicated enough to finish what he starts. I have put an enormous amount of time and energy working on my projects and it has taken me 8 months to get as far as I have with the AER. I understand how much commitment it takes to declare you're going to do a book and then sit down and finish it. CleanCutRogue has put forth an enormous effort in the last year to produce the best material this game has ever seen, and the best a person who has never posted can do is complain about the lack of material? Sorry to sound harsh; just stating it like it is.Why have none of the projects produced a finished product, ready for release? Why are there so many people who join the site and then do nothing? Rather than condemnations, of course, I believe these are questions we should use to provoke some thought and examine what we're doing. This site has over 300 members, and only about 30 of those people post. That means 90% of the people visiting this site are like Jellyboy and only come to check out what OTHER people are doing. If people want to see more stuff published or see more activity in the forums, then they can't just sit back and wait for others to do it and then complain when it doesn't get done. I don't think I was too hasty at all. I think I cut straight to the heart of the matter. Also, compared to most sites that are active, we have a high percentage of people who care about the game and make efforts to keep it alive. I've actually been surprised that there's been so much activity here based on the lack of activity I observed at starfrontiers.org or in the mailing lists. The problem is that people simply don't take the steps they should. If a person never posts and then makes a complaint out of the blue about inactivity, the only person that one has to blame for inactivty is themselves. If they care that much, they can get involved. It's not like anyone is being paid to produce the material. Is 7 rulebooks planned for a span of 16 months not good enough? Is having two major web forums dedicated to the game not good enough? Is having 4 major web sites dedicated to the game not good enough? Is having the game reproduced and updated with 4 rulebooks and a magazine with oodles of new material all in 1 year not good enough? Who specifically are people looking to for more to be done? They're looking to everyone else, not themselves. If we have a little lull between explosions of material, then I'm certainly not going to complain. If people want to complain, then they need to get to work, because I have a few complaints of my own about that. I'm the person in the know, and I'm saying there is no shortage of material being released or on its way and the site will only be as busy as you make it. Start some conversations. Heck, there are 3 video games in production at starfrontiers.org. But then I think people have given up helping on two of those so that Art has to do them himself. Jellyboy's complaint is valid where this community lacks people with time enough or dedication enough to help get material out, but it should apply even more to those who don't even try to help and then make complaints out of the blue. Even just starting a post is something that anyone can do. Got a question? Post it. Got an idea? Post it. Need some help with your campaign? No matter what the game system you use, post it. You don't need to be creative to ask a question. You don't even need to be creative to participate in a conversation to develop an idea. Activity for this site lies not in the hands of the few dedicated to getting rulebooks produced, but in the hands of those who post in the forums and help with the projects. If one has never showed support for this free online game, how is it they can complain? If a person really loves this game that much, then they need to prove it. The effort you get out of your community-produced game is conversely proportional to the effort you put in. It isn't our fault that Jellyboy's not satisfied. There's only one person he should be complaining to, and I don't think it requires an online forum for him to reach that person. However, there's one contribution that Jellyboy is making with his complaint, and that is seeking to galvanize the project makers to get some work done. I agree. I think more should be getting done and a little whip-cracking from the public is needed. But it makes more contextual sense if the person doing the whip-cracking does some posting to show his support. The more activity there is, the more activity there will be. |
March 17, 2008 - 7:35pm | . . . the best a person who has never posted can do is complain about the lack of material?" If that's what you think I was doing or saying, then you weren't hearing what I was meaning to say. Perhaps I didn't say it well, so let me try to make it short and concise: This site has lots of members, lots of projects, and a lot of stuff going on. It's possible that dividing people's creativity in so many directions might lead to any one project getting very few submissions. That's the point I wanted to get across. Nothing more. I'm sorry that you went into defensive mode and that you interpreted me as meaning many things that I never meant. I'll try to be more concise in any future postings. |
March 17, 2008 - 8:29pm | I see. You meant its splintering was causing a lack of focus. Got it. Thanks for clarifying. That's possible, but I don't think so, and here's why I think that: As I mentioned, outside of the magazine, almost all the material produced last year was from one source: Bill Logan and almost all of that material was simply repackaging old rulebooks. Even the Gamma Dawn book was just a packaging of material that already existed for some time. Little tweaking was needed for any of this. For that reason, it allowed Bill to knock it all out fairly quickly. No one wrote any fresh rulebooks last year, which I believe is what may be making its way into your considerations on the matter. That means there was actually very little activity from anyone else outside of the magazine. So the activity you think you saw last year was somewhat of an illusion. It was all the tireless work of one man. Not many. Now, as for my producing 7 rulebooks, this may appear to you as a lack of focus, but it is in fact the presence of super focus. First, I have Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) and if I were to focus on only 1 project, I would lose interest. Second, every book that I have started has picked up overflow from material that will not be going into the AER, meaning that those books will provide consistency and familiar, but expanded material. AER has indeed been my focus and everyone here can attest to my steady and speedy progress on it. What differs between AER and the Remastered books is that I am not just copying and pasting material and giving it an appealing package. I am analyzing each and every piece of information, every sentence, every paragraph, every table, and merging 3 rules sets with conflicting elements and some elements that are ineffective and in need of rethinking. I am providing a whole new rulebook that has the daunting task of simultaneously satisfying the hard core traditional AD, KH, and Zeb's players while at the same time drawing in a new generation of players. To do that, I try to get a lot of input from the community regarding ideas for changes that cross my mind. When I don't get enough support for the idea, I let it go. If I get a lot of people helping to find a way to rethink an idea, then it means that even if my own idea is not popular, people are receptive to rethinking the original concept, and so we hammer out something we can all agree on. This all takes a lot of time and a lot of effort. Ask Bill. He didn't have to go through any of that. But I can assure you that this project is very focused and that there is logic behind the madness. But its something that you have to wait for. It can't happen over night. But the good news is that the AER project is well past half way done. It will definitely be done by August. I'm sorry I can't get it sooner. After AER, as I mentioned, books will be released on average of between once every 3-4 months. You can't ask for better with most RPG products. This is because I will be able to focus on them and they won't require the intense reworking of old rules that AER has required (with the exception of the Mentalist discipline coming in Gamma Dawn). I also already addressed the lack of production in the magazine. Bill said on the site's front page "I was quite late because of all the changes happening in my life, and I've come to realize that the scope of size and quality expected of me is more than I can provide in the time it's expected of me. Something has to change. Right now, I'm in Malaysia helping to get my company's interests started up here. Yet still I'm working on the webzine." When you look at the helpers he has asked for, you can see how much work he was doing on the magazine, including playtesting articles. So don't think the lack of activity is killing a revival that is still at the hands of a single man. After Bill gets the magazine staff set up, the revival will be able to roll on its own, with issues coming out more frequently. And after August, the full realization of Bill's dream will be complete and both rulebooks and magazines will be in full production and Bill will no longer need to direct the revival as it will direct itself. The fact that the magazine is still being produced and with so much material shows that many people are still working. They just aren't working in the same way others are working. Some focus on multiple articles, others focus on rulebooks, and still others focus on things like online RPG tools and Star Frontiers video games. Point being, the revival is neither dead, nor dying, and there is indeed much focus going on and lots of people contributing even as we discuss this issue. |
March 17, 2008 - 8:57pm | By the way, besides the 7 books that everyone can see, I also have 6 other books planned beyond those and 16 articles under way, several of which are almost complete and will likely make it into issue #9. Of the 13 projects I manage, 3 are community tools that don't require completion and that I don't have to work on, 1 is a production project for the 7 book projects and therefore needs no work, 1 project is my personal area where the other 6 books and the many articles are waiting to be produced, 1 project is a community d20 conversions project, and the last one is an Adventure Generator tool that will take a long time to finish, so is on the back burner for me right now. Point being that only the AER and the few articles I have coming are my formost focus. |
 March 26, 2008 - 4:57pm | IMHO the more the better! As for having only 30 in 300 that contribute material .. Its to be expected. It takes alote of dedication to bring an idea to completion. One has to have the calling. Writing for publication (print or web) takes even more work than preparing a campaign. I guess alote of GMs are looking to reduce their campaign building workload by browsing the web for «freebies». I've only recently rediscovered Star Frontier. I'm currently re-reading all the material and plan on posting contributions once in a while BUT to illustrate Corjay's point, being 40ish ALOTE of other real life stuff comes before RPG material writing. To quote a famous character : «Hastiness leads to typos, typos leads to rules misinterpretation, misinterpretation lead to the game having a short career...» ;) «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs |
 March 31, 2008 - 10:38am | There are merits to both sides. I can see how someone could think all this diversification might slow the output to a speed slightly slower than molasses in winter, But, that is also a limited view. there is always a long lag between inseption and delivery of a artistic endevor. And let us not kid out selves. This stuff is artistic. I can sympathise with both sides. I feel for those who feel themselves non-creative. I wish they could find some way to express themselves that they would find fulfilling. I do not deride. I feel for you. I also can see how the other side feels. Creation takes time. RL funks(thank you Sean of the Dead) with us a lot. If only we could dedicate ourselves to what we love rather vthan what the bankers and developers love. Worship maybe. There is nothing wrong with simply wishing to use the creations of others in our games. When I DM'ed AD&D I never used modules. When I referee'd SF, I only used modules. I created several adventures, but never ran a one of them. I think everyone should step back, take a deep breath, and try to see the equation from the other side. I do not mean to belittle any one. I only want peaceful Forums. Sorry for the length and serpentine path of this entry. :) FIAWOL
TANSTAAFL!! |
March 31, 2008 - 12:18pm | Yeah, I was a little harsh before when I understood him to be cracking the whip, but when I realized he was talking about the confusion aspect, the resulting response was meant strictly as an expression of my view. In the meantime, the Adventures section of the Expanded rulebook (It's in the boxed set, not in the PDF) gives Referee's the ability to create situations and encounters on the fly if everyone has already played on the modules. If anyone hasn't played all the modules (the ones not found at starfrontiersman.com), they can be found at starfrontiers.com (Not starfrontiersman.com). In the meantime, I'm working on translating the aquatic Gamma World module to Star Fronteirs mechanics. Enough of the Gamma Dawn Sourcebook material should be provided to help make characters for the adventure when I'm done. You can use the original Gamma Dawn, but be warned that the creations in that may be a bit overpowered. |
November 25, 2010 - 9:33pm | To dig up some old SF bones I wanted to comment and quote not only Jellyboy but all those who don't contribute but rather consume; Right now at least one of you is out there saying "well why don't you help contribute and finish something?" My answer is: I'm not creative like you folks are. I love to enjoy your work. Charge me for it if you wish, I'd gladly pay. Anyone should be able to;
Bill's work has sparked a Revival that has continued three years and is stronger than ever. This topic might be worth an article in the Star Frontiersman. Although I feel like we beg (maybe too much) I really don't know what else to do that will inspire consumers to participate. |
 November 25, 2010 - 10:10pm | You don't have to ask me to contribute twice. I'm going to be working hard to rework all those creatures and races in my project to SF stats, and I'll be submitting it all to either the respective projects and/or to the magazine, and anything else that I can think of that might make the game more fun or interesting. Hopefully though you guys won't get mad at me for being an over-achiever. "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
November 25, 2010 - 10:11pm | We'll just say your passionate.  |
November 25, 2010 - 10:18pm | Just a question, I submitted an idea on alternative computers, and a Referee race and was wondering if they had been recieved. Is there a way for us to check if a submission is recieved or not? "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
November 25, 2010 - 10:52pm | After you click the Submit button you are taken to the site home page and should see red text at the top, "Your Submission has been created." You can use the Email Me link in the navigation menu to contact Submission. Or email submissions @ starfrontiersman.com Last Issue I emailed a list of submission to the contributors, I'll probably do it again. |
November 25, 2010 - 10:54pm | Thanks for the heads up. "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
