Ground Vehicle Combat Update

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 9:57am
Under the category of why not?

Why? Well, I've been working on my "Things that go boom!" series for the magazine, relying on older stories from Star Frontiersman and Dragon magazine. To do this, I've been mining material -- and enhancing it -- from a much larger Word document where I was trying to pull together all sorts of different Star Frontiers combat mechanics that were published in Alpha Dawn, Dragon, Polyhedron, Star Frontiersman, Frontier Explorer and even Zebs.

Issue 28 of Frontier Explorer even featured an updated combat system.

This will just concentrate on ground vehicles. I have another thread where I've been playing around with aerial vehicles. The two topics (ground and air vehicle combat) will go hand-in-hand, but don't need to be in the same potential story.

And, yes, I welcome anyone else's ideas to incorporate here. This is not the  old "Battle Hawks" topic -- I guess that was someone's idea of doing BattleTech for Star Frontiers -- but more for the small-action RPG feel of the current game.
Joe Cabadas
Comments:

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 9:58am

In the equipment area of the Characters section, there are statistics for several classifications of vehicle (air, ground, hover, etc.) When operating these vehicles, certain rules apply.

Vehicle operations include starting, driving, and using a vehicle to do anything it was designed to do normally. A skill check may be necessary only when a character needs to bypass a locked ignition to start the vehicle.

Obviously, if the vehicle is damaged or out of fuel, it will not start until it is repaired or refueled.

A character usually will have no trouble starting the vehicle, but only gets one chance to operate it during an encounter if he is unfamiliar with it. If the character has driven this type of machine before, he can start and drive it automatically.

The normal operation of a vehicle does not include stunts or hazardous maneuvers. So these rules cover that. Vehicular equipment in Zebulon's Guide to Frontier Space or those found in articles in Dragon, Star Frontiersman or Frontier Explorer magazines increases the chances of successfully performing hazardous actions.

Alien vehicles or those that have been greatly modified may pose a challenge to characters. The referee may decide to require a skill check in order for a character to use it.<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[1]<!--[endif]-->

<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->

<!--[endif]-->

<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[1]<!--[endif]--> Zebulon’s Guide, remastered, p. 31.

Joe Cabadas

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JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 9:59am

Ground Vehicle Movement

Speeds. Vehicle speeds are given in meters per turn (meters/turn). To find out how many map spaces a vehicle moves in one turn, divide its speed in meters/turn by the size of a square on the game map. For example, a skimmer traveling at 50 meters per turn on a map with 5-meter squares will move 10 squares per turn.

See the Speed Conversion Table for converting speeds from meters/turn to kilometers/hour and miles/hour.

Speed Conversion Table

Meters/turn

KPH

MPH

5

3

2

10

6

4

20

12

8

30

18

11

40

24

15

50

30

19

60

36

23

70

42

26

80

48

30

90

54

34

100

60

38

125

75

47

150

90

56

175

105

66

200

120

75

250

150

94

300

180

112

350

210

131

 

Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:00am
I could expand the speed conversion table, especially for aerial vehicles.
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:04am

Acceleration. A driver can increase the speed of his vehicle at the start of every game turn. To do this, the player decides how much faster he wants to move, and adds this number of meters/turn to his current speed. There is a limit to how much a vehicle's speed can be increased in one turn.

This limit is the vehicle's acceleration rate. The Vehicle Data Table shows acceleration rates for all the ground vehicles in meters/turn.

Example: A hover car has a top speed of 150 kilometers per hour (kph) which translates into 250 meters per turn (m/t). During its last move, the skimmer was traveling at 40 m/t or 24 kph. Its acceleration rate is 80 meters/turn.

At the beginning of its next move, the driver of the skimmer can increase its speed to 120 meters/turn (40 + 80 =120).

Deceleration. A driver can slow down his vehicle at the start of each game turn. To do this, he subtracts the amount he is decelerating from his current speed; the result is his speed for this turn. If the result is 0, the vehicle has stopped and it does not move this turn. The amount a vehicle can slow down in one turn is limited by its deceleration rate (also see Emergency Stopping). Deceleration rates for ground vehicles are shown on the Vehicle Data Table.

Emergency Stopping. A vehicle can come to a complete stop from any speed in one turn by making an emergency stop. The vehicle must move at one-half of its starting speed. At the end of the turn its speed is 0. The driver must make a Reaction Speed check to keep the vehicle under control during an emergency stop. If he fails the check, he loses control; see Crashes.

Maximum Speed. No matter what its acceleration is, a vehicle cannot move faster than its maximum speed. Maximum speeds are listed on the Vehicle Data Table.

Backing Up. A vehicle can drive backward at up to 50 meters/turn. A vehicle that is moving forward must come to a complete stop before moving in reverse. A vehicle's acceleration rate in reverse is one-half its normal acceleration.

Turn Speed. The Vehicle Data Table shows turn speeds for the ground vehicles. A vehicle can turn 45 degrees to the right or left in every 5-meter square it enters if its speed in meters/turn is equal to or less than its turn speed.

If the vehicle is traveling faster than its turn speed, it must move straight at least 10 meters after making a 45 degree turn before it can turn again. This information is summarized on the table below. See the diagram for examples.

Straight movement from the previous turn can be counted toward these requirements. A driver can turn a vehicle more sharply than indicated above, but risks losing control or crashing; see Short Corners.

Turn Speed Table

Vehicle Traveling

Distance Between Turns

At Turn Speed or less

5 meters

Greater than Turn Speed

10 meters

 

Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:01am
Yeah, yeah, much the same as in Alpha Dawn so far... 
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:13am

Special Maneuvers

Besides driving straight and turning corners, vehicles, can perform special maneuvers. These include slips, pivots, skid turns, bumps and stunts.

Slips. Slipping is similar to "changing lanes"; it allows a vehicle to swerve to the right or left without changing its direction of travel. Any type of vehicle can slip. A slipping vehicle moves 10 meters ahead and 5 meters to either side. This counts as only 10 meters of movement.

A vehicle cannot turn while slipping. A vehicle can slip once for every 10 meters it moves.

Pivot. A pivot is a turn of up to 360 degrees performed in one spot. Only hover vehicles and Explorers can pivot. A vehicle must be stationary at the beginning of the turn to pivot.

The pivoting vehicle stays in the same square, and the driver can rotate it so it points in any direction.

 

Skid Turns. A skid turn is done by slamming on the brakes while turning so the vehicle skids around 180 degrees. Only ground cars ground cycles and Explorers can perform skid turns.

The vehicle must be traveling from 60 to 80 meters/turn. It actually will move only 20 meters during the turn, and have a speed of 0 at the start of the next turn.

The driver of the vehicle rolls percentile dice. If the result is less than or equal to his Reaction Speed, the driver performs the skid turn safely.

 If the result is higher than the driver's Reaction Speed, the vehicle will point in a random direction when it stops skidding. When this happens, move the vehicle as if it had kidded successfully. Now roll 1d10 and turn the vehicle 45 degrees clockwise a number of times equal to the number rolled.

 

Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:17am

Bumping. A driver can try to make another vehicle crash by bumping it. In order to bump, the driver or his team must have initiative for the turn. The driver must slip directly in front of the other vehicle.

Both drivers then make Reaction Speed checks. The driver who performed the slip makes a normal check, but the driver whose vehicle was bumped has a modifier of - 15. If either driver fails the check, he loses control of his vehicle (see Crashes).

Also see Expanded Bumping Maneuvers for more information.

Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:19am
Questions: 

Why is the only time a bumping manuever allowed when the pursuing vehicle slips in front of another vehicle?

Don't police cars ram cars from behind to knock them off the road? Yes.

Don't NASCAR drivers bump against each other from the side? Yes.

So, doesn't this rule need some sort of update?
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:19am

Expanded Bumping Maneuvers

The article “Here Comes the Cavalry! Conventional warfare in the STAR FRONTIERS® game,” by Matt Bandy appeared in the April 1987 issue of Dragon Magazine. Bandy offered some expanded rules on bumping maneuvers and vehicle combat that have been incorporated here.

Some examples of bumping in vehicle combat under the Star Frontiers Alpha Dawn rules seem pretty unlikely, such as a hovercycle running an explorer off the road. Robots might also be involved in bumping attacks too, in particular are those with heavy-duty, heavy-duty reinforced and super-duty bodies.

The Vehicle/Robot Bumping Table provides a bump number for various vehicle and robot types, which can be used to resolve such attacks.

When a bumping situation occurs, the referee finds the difference between the two vehicles. Bump Numbers and multiplies that number by five. The result is added to the modified reaction speed (RS) score of the driver of the higher-valued vehicle, and then subtracted from that of the driver of the lower-valued vehicle.

A percentile-die roll is made for each driver to resolve the success or failure of the bump. Rolls of 01-05 always indicate success, just as rolls of 96-00 always indicate failure.

For example, a hovercycle is trying to run a ground car off the road. A quick look at the Vehicle Bumping Table shows the difference between the two vehicle’s Bump Numbers is four. The hovercycle driver’s score of 63 minus 20 (4 x 5 = 20) is 43, and the ground car driver’s score of 81 plus 20 (for being the driver of the higher-valued vehicle) and minus 30 (for being the vehicle bumped) is 71.

The hovercycle driver makes a 1d100 roll of 26, meaning he maintained control of his vehicle. The ground car driver is not so fortunate: a roll of 95 indicates loss of control. The referee now consults the Control Table in the Alpha Dawn expanded rules (page 31) and continues play.

When a driver loses control of his vehicle, standard procedures governing this situation apply. The exceptions to this rule are the tank (ground) and the battlewagon.

Due to their low centers of gravity and width, these two vehicles do not roll over. Treat a result of either “roll” or “roll and burn” as a spin.

Vehicle/Robot Bumping Table

Vehicle/Robot Type

Bump Number

Hovercycle

Light Body Robots

1

Ground Cycle, Standard Robots

2

Standard Reinforced Robots

3

Hovercar

4

Groundcar, Heavy-Duty Robots

5

Hover Transport

6

Ground Transport, Heavy-Duty Reinforced Robots

7

Warbots with Heavy-Duty and

H-D Reinforced Bodies

8

APC (hover)

9

APC (ground); Super-Duty Robots

10

Hovertank, Warbots with Super-Duty Bodies

12

Explorer

13

Tank

14

Battlewagon

16


 

Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:20am

Stunts. Drivers can perform other stunts, such as jumping their vehicles over bridges, at the referee's discretion. Things to consider when setting up a stunt are the type of vehicle being used, the amount of open space the vehicle has to work with, and the vehicle's condition and cargo.

Short Corners. A driver can try to turn his vehicle tighter than its speed allows, but risks losing control of the vehicle and crashing. A driver shortens a corner if he tries to turn 5 meters before he should.

For example, a ground cycle has a turning speed of 100 meters/turn. If the cycle is traveling 150 meters/turn, it must travel straight 10 meters after making a turn before it can turn again. If the driver tries to make the second 45 degree turn after traveling straight only 5 meters, he is shortening the corner by 5 meters.

Whenever a driver shortens a corner, the player must roll d100. If the result is less than or equal to the driver's Reaction Speed, the driver makes the turn safely. If the result is higher than the driver's Reaction Speed, the driver loses control during the turn (see Crashes).

Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:25am
Observation:

In the Alpha Dawn system, it seems that only technicians can drive or pilot vehicles. But in the Zebs system, there are separate skills for these things.

I know someone came up with a new all-encompassing driver/pilot PSA, but if I remember -- to me at least -- that was a Frankenstein effort.

I could see having a graduated ground vehicles skill -- where you could drive ground and hover cycles and cars at a low level, then heavy transports at a higher level. But would this allow you to drive a tank or armored personnel carrier? I don't know. Should it be counted as a Military Skill? They are far cheaper than tech skills even if it out of your PSA.

Similarly, should there be a separate skill for operating aerial vehicles, whether its the glijet, blimps, jetcopters, aircars and air transports?
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:27am

Crashes

Sometimes the driver loses control or is forced into crashing. These rules cover such events.

Losing Control. When a driver loses control of his vehicle, the player must roll d100 and check the Control Table to see what happens to his vehicle. The die roll is modified by adding the vehicle's speed in meters/turn to the result.

Vehicle Control Table

Roll

Loss of Vehicle Control Result

02-79

Reduce Speed 20 meters/turn

80-139

Reduce Speed 50 meters/turn

140-199

Skid

200-259

Spin

260-349

Roll

350-450

Roll and Burn

Vehicle Control Table Explanation of Results

Reduce Speed. The vehicle immediately reduces its speed by the indicated amount. If this is more than half of the vehicle's current speed, the vehicle slows down to one-half its current speed. The vehicle finishes the move at this new speed.

Skid. The vehicle is skidding out of control. Divide its speed in meters per turn by 10, rounding fractions up. Move the vehicle this number of meters in the direction it was moving before it went out of control. If the vehicle skids into a building or other obstacle, treat it as a collision (see Collisions).

Otherwise, the vehicle continues moving from its new position.

Spin. The vehicle is skidding out of control and spinning. Divide its remaining movement by two.

Move it that many meters in the direction it was traveling before it started skidding. Now roll 1d10 and turn the vehicle 45 degrees clockwise a number of times equal to the number on the die.

On the next turn the vehicle will skid to a stop. Move it one-half of its speed in the direction it was traveling before it went out of control and roll 1d10 again to determine how much it spins.

Roll. The vehicle is rolling out of control. Treat this result the same as a spin, but do not roll 1d10 to determine the vehicle's facing. Instead, each passenger in the vehicle suffers 1 d10 points of damage. When the vehicle stops rolling, roll 1d10; if the result is 1, 2 or 3, the vehicle is right-side-up. Otherwise it is on its side or top. The vehicle will run again in 1d10 turns if it was traveling at its turn speed or less.

Roll and Burn. This is the same as a roll, but the vehicle is burning also. Each passenger suffers an additional 1d10 points damage from the fire at the start of each turn he is in the vehicle.

A character can get out of the vehicle in one turn if it has stopped rolling. If a character tries to get out of the vehicle while it is rolling, he must make a Reaction Speed check. If he passes the check, he has escaped from the vehicle. If he fails the check, he has not gotten away from the vehicle and he suffers an additional 1d10 points of damage immediately.

Collisions

If a moving vehicle hits a building, rock, other vehicle or obstacle of any type, it has had a collision. The vehicle stops moving immediately.

Damage to Vehicles. If the vehicle was traveling faster than its turn speed, it will not run again without extensive repairs. If the vehicle was traveling at its turn speed or slower, it can be driven again after 1 d10 turns. However, its acceleration and turn speed are reduced by 20 meters/turn.

Injury to Passengers. When a vehicle crashes, divide its speed in meters/turn by 20, rounding fractions down. The result is the number of d10 that are rolled to determine how many points of damage each character takes. Add 2 points to each die result if the character was riding a ground or hover cycle, and subtract 2 from each die if the character was riding in an Explorer (no die roll can be modified below 0). This information is summarized on the Damage to Passengers Table.

Character Armor Effects. Skeinsuits and inertia screens will absorb half of the damage a character suffers in a crash. Crashing Through Obstacles. If characters try to drive through a barricade or obstacle, the referee must use his discretion to decide how badly the vehicle is damaged, whether it keeps running, and whether the passengers are hurt. A vehicle may be able to smash through obstacles that are less solid than concrete posts or parked vehicles.

Vehicle Collision: Damage to Passengers Table

Collision Details

Damage

Per 20 meters/turn of vehicle’s speed

1d10

Riding on ground cycle or hover cycle

+2/d10

Riding in Explorer

-2/d10

 

Collisions with Pedestrians. What a moving vehicle hits a pedestrian, the pedestrian suffers 2d10 points of damage for each 20 meters per turn the vehicle was traveling. The referee might allow the driver or the pedestrian (or both) to attempt to avoid the collision with a Reaction Speed check if not surprised.<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[1]<!--[endif]-->

<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->

<!--[endif]-->

<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[1]<!--[endif]--> Williams, Skip. “Sage Advice,” Dragon Magazine, July 1988, p. 44.

Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:28am
Yes, Dragon Magazine actually featured a rule for how to handle a car colliding with a pedestrian! I think that is important to incorporate in any rules update.
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:30am

Vehicle Combat

This next section covers only personal weapons fired from or at vehicles. Vehicle-mounted weapons are covered in the Tanks a Lot section.

Firing From Vehicles. A character who fires a weapon from a moving vehicle has a -10 modifier to hit. If the vehicle is moving faster than 150 meters/turn, the modifier is -20.

Shooting at Passengers. A character can shoot at a passenger inside a vehicle. There is a -20 modifier because the passenger has hard cover and a -10 modifier if the vehicle is moving. Needlers can injure passengers only if the vehicle's windows or top are open.

Shooting at Vehicles. If a character fires a weapon at a moving vehicle, he has a -10 modifier to hit. This modifier does not apply if the vehicle is moving directly toward or directly away from the firing character.

Needlers and gas grenades have no effect on vehicles.

Damaging Vehicles. Whenever a vehicle is hit by gunfire, an exploding grenade or a thrown explosive, the attacking character must roll 2d10 on the Vehicle Damage Table. The number of dice of damage caused by the attack is added to the result. This number is modified by the type of vehicle. A separate roll is made for each successful attack.

Damage to a Non-Moving Vehicle. When a character fires at a stationary vehicle treat any inapplicable result as a ”No Effect” result or assign a different effect. For example, when rolling on the Vehicle Damage Table, the referee might choose to treat a “Spin” as a “No Effect” and a “Roll” as wheel or hoverfan damage equal to the “Turn Speed -15” result. <!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[1]<!--[endif]-->

Cumulative Effects. Both special damage and structural damage to vehicles are cumulative. <!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[2]<!--[endif]-->

Vehicle Damage Table

# Dice Damage + 2d10 Roll

Damage to Vehicles

2-19

No effect

20

Turn Speed -15

21

Acceleration -20

22

Top Speed -30

23

Steering Jammed Straight

24

Steering Jammed Left

25

Steering Jammed Right

26

Speed -20 per Turn

27

Spin

28

Vehicle Burning

29

Roll

30+

Roll and Burn


Modifiers

Target is ground or hover cycle

+2

Target is Explorer

-2



<!--[endif]-->

<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[1]<!--[endif]--> Williams, Skip. “Sage Advice,” Dragon Magazine, July 1988, p. 44.

<!--[if !supportFootnotes]-->[2]<!--[endif]--> Williams, Skip. “Sage Advice,” Dragon Magazine, July 1988, p. 44.

Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:31am

Vehicle Damage Table: Explanation of Results

No Effect. (Optional: any damage is applied to the vehicle’s structural points.)

Turn Speed -15/Acceleration -20/Top Speed -30. The vehicle's turn speed, acceleration or top speed is reduced by the indicated number of meters/turn.

Steering Jammed Straight/Left/Right. The vehicle’s steering mechanism has been jammed. If straight, the vehicle cannot turn. If right or left, the vehicle must turn 45 degrees in the indicated direction after each 20 meters of travel.

For example, a skimmer traveling at 80 meters/turn with its controls  jammed in a right turn must turn 45 degrees to the right after/raveling 20, 40, 60and 80 meters during its next move. The skimmer can decelerate or accelerate, but cannot change its direction.

Speed -20 per Turn. The vehicle must reduce its speed at least 20 meters/turn until it is stopped. It can decelerate more than this if the driver wants, but it cannot accelerate.

Spin. See Control Table results.

Vehicle Burning. The vehicle has caught fire. Each passenger will suffer 1d10 points of damage at the start of every turn they are in the vehicle.

Roll. See Control Table results.

Roll and Burn. See Control Table results.

Example: BliCluet the Dralasite is shooting its laser pistol at a street punk that has just stolen BliCluet's hover cycle. Its Dexterity is modified by -10 because the target is a moving vehicle, and by -20 because the cycle is at medium range. BliCluet has a modified Dexterity of 15 for this shot. One of its two shots hits the cycle. BliCluet had the laser set for 7d10 damage.

The player rolls 2d10 and gets a 16. Adding 7 for the damage and 2 because the target was a cycle gives a modified result of 25; the cycle's steering is jammed to the right.

 

Structural Damage Capacity Table

--------------Structure Points--------------

25+d10

50+2d10

100+d100

200+2d100

Heavy Door

Fortified Door

Safe

Vault

Sign Post

Light Vehicle

Heavy Vehicle

Armored  Vehicle

Interior Wall

Exterior Wall

Fortified Wall

Armored Wall


Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:31am
Well, I've already provided an expanded Structural Damage Table in Frontier Explorer. I should probably go with that.
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:40am

Advanced Vehicle Combat Sequence

The Combat Sequence for vehicle combat is the same as for all other STAR FRONTIERS combat, the only difference being in the procedure used to determine hit probability.

The “Mission to Alcazzar” module first introduced explorers with gun turrets into the Star Frontiers game but it was Curylo’s “Tanks a lot!” story where the concept of vehicle-sized weapons including heavy machine guns, cannons, guided missiles, and bombs debuted. Under Curylo’s system, each vehicle class was assigned a certain number of “spaces” and each weapon class took up a certain number of spaces.

A “man-portable” weapon, such as the heavy weapons from the Alpha Dawn game (heavy laser, sonic devastator, recoilless rifle, etc.) took up one space, for example. Additional equipment and vehicle combat rules were added in Zebulon’s Guide and Matt Bandy’s story “Here Comes the Cavalry!” from the April 1987 issue of Dragon Magazine adding more opportunities for players to cause tabletop mayhem.

Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 26, 2020 - 1:32pm

Advanced Vehicular Combat Table Explained

Advanced Vehicular Combat Table

¼DEX / ½DEX. Basic chance to hit is one-fourth gunner’s DEX.

 

+5% per Driver Level..

 

Add Gunner’s Skill. +5% per gunner’s skill level.

 

Use Range Modifier.

 

Add Target Size Modifier.

 

Add or Subtract Movement Modifiers. Applies to attacker and target.

 

Subtract Cover Modifiers.

 

Subtract Dodging Modifiers. Applies to attacker and target.

 

-10% per Extra Weapon Fired. Applies when a gunner is firing more than one weapon.

 

Heavy Weapon Modifier. -10% to-hit if the gunner is using a heavy weapon.

 

Advanced Equipment Modifiers.

 

Apply Damage.

 

 

The Advanced Vehicular Combat Sequence is the same as for all other Star Frontiers combat, the only difference being the procedure used to determine hit probability. All modifiers are cumulative. The explanation of the combat table’s sequence is:

 

  1. ¼DEX / ½DEX. The basic percentage change to hit is one-fourth the gunner's Dexterity, since he has no control over the aim (only when to fire). If he is controlling a turreted weapon, the base percentage chance increases to one-half his Dexterity.
  2. +5 Percent per Driver Level. If the vehicle is moving, 5 percent is added for each level of skill the driver has because he can position the vehicle for the most favorable shots.
  3. Add Gunner’s Skill. +5 percent is added for each skill level the gunner has with the weapon being fired.
  4. Range Modifier. Subtract the range modifier. See Expanded Game Rules book for range modifiers.
  5. Add Target Size Modifier. Cars, Explorers, air vehicles: +5% (Large). Trucks: +10% (Giant).
  6. Add or Subtract Movement Modifiers. This applies to both attacker and target. The modifiers are: +10 percent if the target or attacker is stationary; +0 percent if the speed is 1-9 meters/turn; -10 percent if speed is 10-150 meters/turn;or  -20 percent if speed is over 150 meters/turn
  7. Subtract Cover Modifiers. See Expanded Game Rules book for cover modifiers.
  8. Subtract Dodging Modifiers. The driver can weave and otherwise try to prevent a harder target. Subtraction is -5 percent per level of the driver. This applies to attacks on and by his vehicle, and it eliminates modifier #2 above.
  9. -10% per Extra Weapon Fired. If firing multiple weapons, a gunner has a -10 percent penalty to hit per weapon, for every extra weapon over and above the one weapon he considers his main weapon. A driver has a -10 percent penalty to hit per weapon on which he fires.
  10. Heavy Weapon Modifier. If the gunner is using a heavy weapon, he has a -10 percent penalty for firing that weapon.
  11. Advanced Equipment Modifiers. Certain advanced targeting equipment, such as Mind-Mount, Cyber-Link, Eye-Weapon Coordination, sensor warheads, and guided missiles can greatly increase a gunner’s chance to hit.
  12. Apply Damage. Take into account any armor, defensive energy screens, and structure points. Check for Loss of Control.

 

Example: Simba and Dandel are trying to shoot down a Streel jetcopter. Simba (the driver) is firing two weapons; he has a -20 percent on each roll. Dandel (the gunner) is firing three weapons; he also has a -20 percent on each roll.

Once an attack succeeds, apply screen affects (if any), and find the number of dice of damage caused by the attack. Roll 2d10, add the number of dice, and subtract 2 for each coat of armor the vehicle has. Finally, add vehicle modifiers (+2 for cycles; -2 for Explorers), and consult the appropriate Vehicle Damage Table (pp. 32-33, Expanded Game Rules book).



Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:46am
Observation:

While I like some of the things from Curylo's advanced vehicle combat sequence, I'm not sure if it adds much.

The info about either using one-fourth or one-half of the gunner's dexerity provides a bit more complication than is necessary, along with the driver's skill level. Does this help or hinder playability?

Most of the rest is just the Alpha Dawn combat system... Well, I guess the movement modifiers and target sizes help.
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:46am
What I might want is a Vehicle Size modifier instead of a "target size" modifier.
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 21, 2020 - 10:47am
--More to come later
Joe Cabadas

KRingway's picture
KRingway
October 26, 2020 - 6:35am
I'd say it's always good to avoid having the referee and/or players having to spend time doing various bits of maths during in-game combat. It tends to bog it all down and thus what might be an exciting situation becomes a bit of a chore.

WRT vehicle skills, Zeb's made it a little easier but, again, it's probably better to keep it simple. Skills generally in SF reflect a tech-savvy society, so various vehicles shouldn't be beyond the ken of anyone with the skill in any given area. That's why it's called a skill, after all. What also might be going on is that the tech that deals with vehicle controls in SF is more automated (in the sense of being something like a 'fly by wire' system) and thus are less 'analogue' than our technology here on Earth. I do recall having discussions way back when as a player and as a referee about this, and we generally just nailed it down to the fact that SF tech isn't our Earth-bound tech, and that this tech in SF in much more hands-on and user-friendly. So, WRT to tanks, it might be that generally tracked vehicles aren't beyond the ken of someone with a driving skill. Having the skill is the important thing, and as long as you have that skill the technology in SF is more transparent and has been designed with a better person-machine interface.

KRingway's picture
KRingway
October 26, 2020 - 7:09am
Also, AD does state that higher levels of the Operate Machinery skill enables a character to drive more complex vehicles.

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 26, 2020 - 10:42am
KRingway wrote:
I'd say it's always good to avoid having the referee and/or players having to spend time doing various bits of maths during in-game combat. It tends to bog it all down and thus what might be an exciting situation becomes a bit of a chore.

WRT vehicle skills, Zeb's made it a little easier but, again, it's probably better to keep it simple. Skills generally in SF reflect a tech-savvy society, so various vehicles shouldn't be beyond the ken of anyone with the skill in any given area. That's why it's called a skill, after all. What also might be going on is that the tech that deals with vehicle controls in SF is more automated (in the sense of being something like a 'fly by wire' system) and thus are less 'analogue' than our technology here on Earth. I do recall having discussions way back when as a player and as a referee about this, and we generally just nailed it down to the fact that SF tech isn't our Earth-bound tech, and that this tech in SF in much more hands-on and user-friendly. So, WRT to tanks, it might be that generally tracked vehicles aren't beyond the ken of someone with a driving skill. Having the skill is the important thing, and as long as you have that skill the technology in SF is more transparent and has been designed with a better person-machine interface.

Agreed. My intention is to just collect the different combat rules, but follow the KISS method -- Keep It Simple St*p*d.
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 26, 2020 - 10:44am
I think the only way a gunner would use 1/4 th of their Dexterity as a base score is if he/she is operating a surface mounted weapon... but even then it adds unnecessary complexity. 
Joe Cabadas

KRingway's picture
KRingway
October 26, 2020 - 12:14pm
I think gunners should keep their usual skill check - the only modifiers would be the regular ones for being in a vehicle, firing at moving objects , etc.

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 26, 2020 - 1:30pm
KRingway wrote:
I think gunners should keep their usual skill check - the only modifiers would be the regular ones for being in a vehicle, firing at moving objects , etc.

Yep. That would be the KISS plan.
Joe Cabadas