JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 12:50pm | I Think I'm a Clone NowIsn't it strange? Feels like I'm lookin' in the mirror Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 12:51pm | Well, with the Frontier Explorer magazine coming back to life, I feel like posting some stuff again, including dicussing some of the game rules, such as cloning. Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 1:06pm | We have two slightly different cloning versions that were provided for the game, one coming from game co-creator David "Zeb" Cook in a Dragon magazine article. His version was basically this: Note, what follows is already a version that I was working on that began to combine Cook's work with Zeb's. I'll have to dig out Cook's original version. Cloning. This process is very rare, performed at only the most advanced hospitals and private clinics. When a character is to be cloned, tissue samples are taken of various parts of the character's body. These genetic samples are normally stored in a Body-gene Box, which is part stasis field, part freeze field. A 20-cm cube made of federanium, the body-gene box can store the character’s genetic material indefinitely. As longas the box remains closed, the sample remains fresh. Typically, the body-gene box is kept in a bank vault-like storage center. Once a character is declared dead, hisg enetic sample can be removed from the box and a clone can be created of the character. As might be expected there are numerous hitches involved with this item and the entire procedure.
These may be held for any length of time. From these samples, a new body may be grown when requested. Growing a clone takes 500 days and costs 1,000,000 Credits. Physically, the clone will be identical in appearance to character from which the tissue samples were taken, save for scars and other uninherited physical traits. The clone will have average scores in Strength, Stamina, Reaction Speed, and Dexterity. It will have no Intuition, Logic, Personality, Leadership, or Special Abilities. A clone may be supplied with these abilities through an experiential matrix (giving the clone the scores recorded in the Matrix, see below). If a matrix is fed into a clone different from the person from whom the matrix was taken, the Strength, Dexterity, Reaction Speed, Personality, and Leadership scores are reduced by 20 points. No score may be reduced below a level of six in this case. Clones and cloning are illegal on some worlds. [1] [1] Cook, David. “For a Fistful of Credits: Extra equipment for the Star Frontiers game,” Dragon Magazine, August 1990, pp. 89-91. Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 12:59pm | Zeb Cook also provided this idea: Experiential Matrix Analysis.Living characters may undergo an experiential matrix analysis. This process will record all memories and experiences of the character up to the time of the analysis into a special computer storage. The process is mainly used to transfer memories to a clone, and may only be done at an advanced hospital. This process is dangerous as it involves severe strain on the character; there is a 20% chance that the following abilities will be permanently reduced whenever ananalys is is made: Stamina, Logic, Intuition, Reaction Speed, Personality, and Leadership. One check is made for each ability. If an ability is to be reduced, the character will lose 10-50 points in thatability. All abilities (except Stamina) may not be lowered to less than six points. If the Stamina ability is reduced to zero or below, the character is permanently dead. The referee should record the reduced Ability Scores of the character analyzed and keep this information for later use. Reduced abilities may only be increased by use of experience points. The analysis takes one week and costs 50,000 Credits. [1] [1] Cook, David. “For a Fistful of Credits: Extra equipment for the Star Frontiers game,” Dragon Magazine, August 1990, pp. 89-91. Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 6:43pm | Zebulon's Guide, however, offered a different version: The cloning process requires a Body-gene Box, Weight: 20 kilograms, Cost: 5,000 Credits. Sample Taken: Cost: 5,000 Credits Storage Per Year. Cost: 10,000 Credits Clone Grown. Weight: 5 kilograms,Cost: 20,000 Credits. Cost: Besides the high cost of the body-gene box (see the Equipment Tables) there is also the cost of having the sample prepared and taken (5000 Cr), the cost of storage (10,000 Cr per year), and the cost of having the clone made (75,000 Cr). Once a clone is grown the sample is destroyed. Another sample cannot be taken for at least three months. Legalities: Society has a great fear of clones running wild. No character with a felony criminal record can have a sample taken, maintain a sample in a b-g box, or have a clone grown. Proof of a character's death must be positively established before a clone can be grown. This either requires witnesses, a medical certificate of death, or the identifiable remains of the character. If it is discovered that a clone exists while the original still lives, a general order to shoot on sight is immediately given. Unfortunately this usually results in both the clone and the original being destroyed. A character can only be brought back through cloning if he has died an unusually early accidental death. Most of the Frontier believes that if allowed a free hand, the clone merchants would overpopulate the systems in a matter of decades. Therefore, by law, no one maybe cloned who has died of old age or a natural death. Interpretation of this are left to the referee's discretion. (Of course, there are always rumors of the "filthy rich" who can buy their own clone banks and almost become immortal, but that is for NPC consideration only). Dangers: If a close discovers that his original is still alive, he becomes obsessed with a desire to kill the original character and never stops trying until one or the other is dead. The next step, usually, is that the cloned character then becomes suicidal after realizing that he has killed himself. Campaign Considerations: When acharacter has a sample taken, the referee must record all of the character's abilities, skills, and so forth. This record is then the basis for the clone, if and when it is grown. Any new abilities or skills developed after the sample is taken are not recorded, unless the character has another sample taken later (whereupon the original sample is destroyed). Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 1:08pm | The Zeb's and Cook versions of cloning can be more combined. But it does bring a few questions to mind. Is there just one cloning technology available in the Frontier? Is it as costly as Cook's version? Or filled with sci-fi tropes as in the Zeb's version? Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 1:10pm | I like Cook's Experimental Matrix Analysis as a way to transfer memories and skills from the original character to a clone. Otherwise, one would think the clone would need to be raised and trained like any person. The referee could use the concept of "genetic memory" to allow a clone to have flashes of memory of the original, but I don't think this would make the clone an exact copy of the original. Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 4:45pm | Some other critiques: The Body-gene Box is a Zeb's creation, not Zeb Cook's. That being said, the concept isn't bad, but some details are lacking. Obviously with "recent" news -- recent can be a stretch of a number of years back now -- there was the cloning of Dolly the sheep and within the past few weeks, stories of cloned dogs, cloned cows for meat, etc. The body-gene box should be the state-of-the-art genetic sample storage device available in the Frontier. Along with being made of nearly indestructable federanium, it should have its own emergency power source, probably to keep its stasis field operating for up to five galactic standard time (GST) years. Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 6:05pm | Besides the body-gene box there would be normal cryogenic storage possibilities. Not as costly, but not as safe. Cook's idea here: Growing a clone takes 500 days and costs 1,000,000 Credits. I would assume that is growing an adult-size clone. They must use some sort of growth accelerator drugs. A million credit cost? Definitely not for the budget conscious. So, is growing a clone done in some sort of vat? An embryonic clone could be implanted in a surrogate mother... or if it is a Dralasite, the bud attached to a surrogate mom. Ths would be far less costly, though the result is an infant clone. In this way, the infant clone would develop like any other child, though the base statistics would eventually equal the donor's primary statistics. For example, the donor -- let's assume a human male -- had the following statistics at character creation before any alterations due to experience or disease: STR/STA 65/60, DEX/RS 45/45, INT/LOG 50/40, PER/LDR 45/45. The the clone raised from an infant would have the same statitics upon reaching maturity. Accept for any "genetic memories" -- i.e. flashes of memory from the donor's experiences, to use a sci fi and fantasy trope -- the clone would have to develop his own skills and experience. Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 6:12pm | Experiential Matrix Analysis. ...The process is mainly used to transfer memories to a clone, and may only be done at an advanced hospital. This process is dangerous as it involves severe strain on the character; there is a 20% chance that the following abilities will be permanently reduced whenever ananalys is is made: Stamina, Logic, Intuition, Reaction Speed, Personality, and Leadership... Hmm, a rather severe 20% failure rate. Perhaps there should be a graduated chart of different problems that can occur. Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 6:23pm | Zeb's critique: The cloning process requires a Body-gene Box, Weight: 20 kilograms, Cost: 5,000 Credits. This seems reasonable so far. Again, with the 20 kilogram weight, the body-gene box has to have its own internal power source, like a power backpack size battery, to justify this mass. Sample Taken: Cost: 5,000 Credits. Reasonable. Storage Per Year. Cost: 10,000 Credits. Rather high, but those storage hospitals need to make money somehow. One would assume that any "fithy rich" character might have their own storage equipment, so the storage cost would be less, but then he's paying for maintenance and upkeep, so it might be a wash. Clone Grown. Weight: 5 kilograms,Cost: 20,000 Credits. OK, this is info that I copied from the remastered edition of Zeb's. I don't know if the stats are accurate. Only 5 kilograms to grow a clone? What is this supposed to mean? If one is growning a full-size, adult clone in a vat or artificial womb, I think the weight would be a lot higher, say in the 100-250 kg range if not more. Here the cost might be low rather than high. Cost: Besides the high cost of the body-gene box (see the Equipment Tables) there is also the cost of having the sample prepared and taken (5000 Cr), the cost of storage (10,000 Cr per year), and the cost of having the clone made (75,000 Cr). Again, copying and pasting the Zeb's remastered info. Unless I made a mistake, the cost of the clone does not match the earlier posting, but the 75,000 Credits might be more in line with what I imagine. Once a clone is grown the sample is destroyed. Really? Seriously? You have a 20 kg body-gene box and it only has enough genetic material for one clone? That doesn't seem reasonable. Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 6:31pm | More critiques on Zeb's: Legalities: Society has a great fear of clones running wild. No character with a felony criminal record can have a sample taken, maintain a sample in a b-g box, or have a clone grown. All Frontier societies have a great fear of clones running wild but they have no problems with all the robots or Yazarians using sapes as robot replacements? How do they deal with the Eorna experimental races? Dralasite planets might have endless debates over the ethical nature of clones or whether the cost is practical. Human planets might swing one way or the other. Vrusk societies might take a dim view or maybe they want to keep alive a corporate genius. Likewise, maybe the Yazarian Family of One -- which seems to allow the destruction of native planet habitats by supporting terraforming -- might be open to clones. I can understand that most wouldn't want criminals being cloned... unless you are in charge of the criminal planet of the Outer Reach. Proof of acharacter's death must be positively established before a clone can be grown. This either requires witnesses, a medical certificate of death, or the identifiable remains of the character. I guess that depends upon whether you are on Grand Quivera or the Outer Reach. Unethical planets may allow cloning whether the donor is dead or not. If it is discovered that a clone exists while the original still lives, a general order to shoot on sight is immediately given. Unfortunately this usually results in both the clone and the original being destroyed. OK, this is a big sci fi trope here. A shoot on sight order? What about the bleeding heart humans? Would all the planets of the Frontier be in favor of this? Star Law doesn't have a problem with such a law? Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 3, 2019 - 6:41pm | More critiques: ...Another sample cannot be taken for at least three months... Three months between genetic samples? Well, it could be an invasive procedure. A character can only be brought back through cloning if he has died an unusually early accidental death. Most of the Frontier believes that if allowed a free hand, the clone merchants would overpopulate the systems in a matter of decades. Therefore, by law, no one maybe cloned who has died of old age or a natural death. Interpretation of this are left to the referee's discretion. (Of course, there are always rumors ofthe "filthy rich" who can buy their own clone banks and almost become immortal, but that is for NPC consideration only). This seems to be a pretty logical section, sci fi tropes aside. The "by law" restrictions would depend upon the planet, but I suppose the UPF Council of Worlds might have made a Frontier-wide law. Dangers: If a close discovers that his original is still alive, he becomes obsessed with a desire to kill the original character and never stops trying until one or the other is dead. The next step, usually, is that the cloned character then becomes suicidal after realizing that he has killed himself. Another big sci fi trope, but it does bring about the question of just how mentally stable clones are? Maybe the clone should have a Logic roll to prevent being obsessed. Instead of just a "desire to kill the original character," maybe you need some sort of graduated reaction table with modifiers based on race? This would be akin to the character reaction table when a Vrusk NPC interacts with a human, for example.
Joe Cabadas |
jedion357 February 3, 2019 - 8:34pm | I want to be a Paranoia clone which will almost certainly mean that what I really am is a Pink-o Mutant Commie clone. And that I'm dodging summary execution all the time so long as I can blame shift to the next guy. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
jedion357 February 3, 2019 - 8:38pm | I suppose a big question would be what big sci-fi property involving clones might have been out at the time of the SF publication? Logan's Run? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
ChrisDonovan February 4, 2019 - 12:10am | I don't think LR was cloning per se, but a case of "vat job" babies using in vitro techniques. |
jedion357 February 4, 2019 - 9:30am | I don't think LR was cloning per se, but a case of "vat job" babies using in vitro techniques. that and euthanasia themes. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
JCab747 February 4, 2019 - 3:46pm | I suppose a big question would be what big sci-fi property involving clones might have been out at the time of the SF publication? Logan's Run? Well, here's a few things I found from a quick internet search... never read them, however. 18 On the surface, the novel presents an unexceptional pulp, post-apocalypse science fiction action tale entitled Lord of the Swastika. However, this is a pro-fascism narrative written by an alternate-history Adolf Hitler, who in this timeline emigrated from Germany to the United States in 1919 after the Great War, and used his modest artistic skills to become first a pulp-science fiction illustrator and later a successful science fiction writer, telling lurid, purple-prosed adventure stories under a thin SF-veneer. You follow all that? Really? Then you’re going to have to explain it to me.
17 Far out from Earth, two sister planets, Saint Anne and Saint Croix, circle each other in an eternal dance. It is said a race of shape-shifters once lived here, only to perish when men came. But one man believes they can still be found, somewhere in the back of the beyond. Author Wolfe interweaves three tales: the son of a mad genius discovers his hideous heritage: a young man quests for his darker half; and a scientist endures a nightmarish imprisonment (this is the story with clones). These tales reveal unexpected truths about this strange and savage alien landscape.
Joe Cabadas |
JCab747 February 4, 2019 - 3:57pm | Some other cloning novels and movies: * Pamela Sargent's 1976 novel Cloned Lives also, the short story "Clone Sister" by Pamela Sargent, in The anthology "Eros in Orbit", edited by Joseph Elder, New York: Simon & Schuster, 1973; Trident, 1973; Pocket Books, No.77720, $0.95, May 1974, arguably the first collection devoted to Sex in Science Fiction. The story treats the emotional dynamics of a set of five female clones of the same star drive inventor, Paul Swenson, using the "Takamura" technique. This story correctly predicted the outlawing of human cloning by a horrified public and legislature. Cloning is also used to preserve African wildlife. Paul is jealous when one of his clones, Kira, has an affair with a colleague. Everyone searches for self-meaning and an understanding of their place in the world. * Thomas M. Scortia's "Flowering Narcissus" in The anthology Eros in Orbit, edited by Joseph Elder, New York: Simon & Schuster, 1973: Protagonist is sent 115 years into the future, where he finds that he is the only human being left after viral warfare between China and Russia leaves only androids alive. He is a biker, and a severe homophobe. He has sex with a woman that the androids say was created for him, and discovers, to his revulsion, that she is a clone of himself, and that he is a clone of the original of himself who did not survive the time travel. Blade Runner (1982) The modern classic based on Philip K. Dick's novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep." That title has an extra irony now, with the cloning of "Dollie" -- a sheep, as the first clone of an adult mammal. The film stars Harrison Ford, Rutger Hauer, and Sean Young. The Director's Cut is the recommended version. Boys from Brazil, The (1978) From the Ira Levin novel, this shows the darkest side of cloning humans: it might be evil and powerful men like Hitler that get genetically duplicated. Human Duplicators, The (1965) Extraterrestrials start copying and replacing people in this routine sci-fi thriller. Island of Dr.Moreau, The (1996) This is the remake of the H. G. Wells 1896 novel, starring Marlon Brando, Val Kilmer, and Ron Perlman. A big budget and great cast wasted. Island of Dr.Moreau, The (1977) This is the original film adaptation of the 1896 H. G. Wells novel, starring Burt Lancaster, Michael York, Richard Basehart, and Barbara Carrera.Major author Ursula K. Le Guin said, in her essay "On Theme" [Those Who Can, ed. Robin Scott Wilson, New York: Signet, 1973, pp.204-205]: "Every now and then one can say of a specific short story that it did begin with a single, specific idea with a single, specific source. This is the case with 'Nine Lives'. I had been reading The Biological Time Bomb by Gordon Rattray Taylor, a splendid book for biological ignoramuses, and had been intrigued by his chapter on the cloning process. I knew a little about cloning... but so little that I had not got past carrots, where it all started, to speculate about the notion of duplicating entire higher organisms, such as frogs, donkeys, or people. I did not have to read between the lines: Rattray Taylor did it for me. He pointed out that some biologists have been contemplating these more ambitious possibilities quite seriously (why don't people ever ask biologists where they get their ideas from?). In thinking about this possibility, I found it alarming. I began to see that the duplication of anything complex enough to have personality would involve the whole issue of what personality is -- the question of individuality, of identity, of selfhood. Now that question is a hammer that rings the great bells of Love and Death...." Joe Cabadas |