 March 7, 2014 - 1:22pm |  The PGC Tower, Port Loren, Gran Quivera, Prengular System Its a twin to the "luxury appartment" tower and has an elevated walkway between the two. Both have underdround parking structures. The Endless Quest book "Captive Planet" states that one of the upper floors of the PGC tower has a com center with booths for making subspace calls. There is a monorail station depicted on the map which is likely named "PGC". likely that there is two floors dedicated to communications: one for subspace calls and the other manages all other communications and possibly has a mainframe computer/server there Couple questions: 1. how deep do the underground structures go? Pulling a number out of the air I'm guessing 3 levels of underground parking and a loading dock on the first level at least for PGC. I've seen one tall building in Boston with 4 or 5 levels of parking. 2. How high are the towers? I imagine that they are twins and the same height but what would be a good hieght 3. at what level should the connecting walkway be? Low, middle or high? Other considerations: the luxuray appartments are connected to PGC and built on the same property so I imagine that they do cater to PGC employees but perhaps not exclusively. Thus a delegate to the Council of Worlds might have an appartment here or a rich ship owner. No doubt the EVPs have penthouses for when they cant jet away to their villas. From doing catering deliveries to small buildings in Boston I can say that both buildings should have multiple elevators- a bank of elevators for normal usage and one to two service elevators (one is probably enough) its common, in this day and age for contractors and delivery personnel to sign in with a dock master or security in these types of buildings, be issued a pass that states what floor they may access and the elevator attendant on the service elevator delivers them to that floor and takes their pass from them with they go back down the elevator. in the Frontier the elevator attendant will be a level 3 robot. he is perhaps not a security robot but under normal circumstances is able to call for security. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 7, 2014 - 1:31pm | Basic Game book tells us that the squares on the Port Loren map are 5 meters which makes the PGC tower 25m X 60m. For comparison the top 10 tallest buildings in the world are 88 to 163 floors and 450m to 828m tall. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 7, 2014 - 2:47pm | Floor proposals B4 Robotics depot B1-3 are garage 1st Lobby with security desk and banks of elevators 2nd Mezzanine 3rd -6th shops: coffee, shoe repair, tailor, gym etc. 7th- 30th cube farm for low to mid functionaries and workers. 31st Personnel 32nd-33rd Legal 34th Security substation 35th to 47rd Offices Mid to Higher level execs. 48th-50th Executive services (dinning, gym, washroom etc.) 51st Com center (subspace) 52nd com center (regular) 53rd main computer center 54th-55th Executive Air car garage and maintenance. 56th maintenance and building sercives for upper third 57th-68 Offices for top executives 69th observation deck and bar (resticted to top executives) Roof: sub space antenna arrays and other communication equipment. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 March 7, 2014 - 7:03pm | Ben doing a little empirical research. We could make this tower 1000 meters tall with frontier technology. I spent some time looking at the dimensions of current skyscrapers and for narrow sky scrapers we have one with a width to height ratio of 1:18 which would give a height of 1080 meters when applied to the base dimensions of the PGC tower. -iggy |
March 7, 2014 - 9:53pm | Ben doing a little empirical research. We could make this tower 1000 meters tall with frontier technology. I spent some time looking at the dimensions of current skyscrapers and for narrow sky scrapers we have one with a width to height ratio of 1:18 which would give a height of 1080 meters when applied to the base dimensions of the PGC tower. We're talking approx 200 floors at 1000m. (using real world examples for that). I have to think that building two such buildings is an expression of PGC power and prestige. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 7, 2014 - 11:58pm | Yes this is a symbol of PGC power, so it should be the tallest in the city if not the world or the entire frontier. But the Streel might has built a taller one to spite PGC. One thing I have always thought was that the Port Loren map has streets to close, small city blocks. I was compairing PL to NYC and the blocks are smaller than down town Manhatten near the World Trade Center. I guess PL was planned as a walkable city. -iggy |
March 9, 2014 - 9:02pm | OK, I drew Port Loren in SketchUp. Here is a view from above. I only expanded the government building, the convention center and the towers just to the right of the zoo. These buildings scream symetry so I just finished the portion that was cut off on the origonal map. I also extrapolated the heights based on 1000m PGC towers using the shadows on the origonal map. They look kinda funny and too packed at this height. Though I am still partial to PGC towers being 1000m tall.  What do you all think the heights should be? -iggy |
March 9, 2014 - 9:12pm | Here is where I have been doing some of my emperical research: http://www.skyscraper.org/PROGRAMS/slender_program.htm http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=200 And this kid is what inspired me to make the SketchUp city: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AFPzx-ObB8&list=PLyceYCpoj181Xk4MItENT-oGBsjr4PWM5 -iggy |
March 10, 2014 - 5:21am | I think the central square area should be one story tall as a park/ nall and this will lesson the congestion in downtown. It screams a planned open space. At most it should be 2 stories. Otherwise i love it. The hotel ahould be tallish 1/2 PGC tower but twice as high as most government buildings. The dralasite debate thing is possibly a auditorium venue so I see it being big like a sports arena but only effectively one main level with a basement level. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 10, 2014 - 8:24am | Is Port Loren a sea port, space port, or both? There is one fan picture that shows water. -iggy |
March 10, 2014 - 11:01am | Is Port Loren a sea port, space port, or both? There is one fan picture that shows water. I interpret Port Loren as a maga city as AD and Zebs describe for a planet with hvy population. thus Port Loren would be continental in size covering say the western coast of one continent. That would make on the water but I think it was primarily named for the space port. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 10, 2014 - 8:48pm | Here is the city with buildings set to heights determined by function. The luxury hotel is 50 storeys, the bussiness tower (two layers just above the PGC twins) is 99 storeys, the apartment tower next to it is 85 storeys. The three towers behind the PGC twins (I call them PGC1, PGC2, and PGC3) are 42, 50, and 58 storeys respectivily. The government building is 10 storeys. Looking NE:  Looking SW:  Looking SW zoomed in:  The question now is, do we adjust the size of the PGC twins from 303 storeys (1000m) to something else? -iggy |
March 11, 2014 - 3:37am | I like how this looks. I can just imagine a PGC employee with an office window facing the luxury appartment building spending his time watching the girl on the 226th floor doing yoga. Iggy, I'm not sure I grasped your final question? what something else would we convert the PGC twins to? BTW nice touch putting a helo pad on the roof of the hospital. Also in Boston its sick how much construction is going on at Childrens Hospital and Brighams and Womens Hospital which are located almost on top of each other and this construction has been a constant for years. Is the hospital in Port Loren big enough? EDIT: If the luxury appartment tower is strickly luxury appartments we might need to view it as an arcology- everything you need to live there and never leave. In fact as a PGC employee you simply take the elevated walkway over to the other building. However, for buildings this size we might need multiple elevated walkways to accomdate all the traffic. EDIT2: I like the look of the hospital as is but perhaps there is more off the map to the north. Like a whole hospital district. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 March 11, 2014 - 6:13am | I think iggy's point is that that are so much taller than everything else that maybe we make them just say 150-200 stories instead of the 300+ that they are not. They would still be taller than anything else around but not quite so tall. Also, iggy, what are you using for story height? I figure that it's slightly larger in the frontier because of Yazirians. On earth our room heights are built to accomdate the average man ( say 6' ) However, yazirians on average are about a foot taller and the architecture would need to reflect that or they will always be ducking their heads and slouched over. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
March 11, 2014 - 11:02am | IC, yes at that height they are a bit too big. Sure scale them back to 200 stories I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 11, 2014 - 2:31pm | I am wondering if the PGC towers should be shorter so as not to look so out of place. I like having them as 1000 meters tall but the other buildings are not good companions because they are much shorter than the PGC towers. Maybe I should create some other taller buildings to blend in better. As for the hospital, I think a medical complex would be good. I also would like to get input about other types of buildings to add. For the apartments I figure the lower floors are all commercial. The cities in Asia are like this, apartments on top, commercial on the bottom. For floor height I am using 3.3 meters which I researched on the internet as an average storey height. 3.3 meters gives room for living space and all the utilities between floors. This is just the average too, as we design the insides of a building we can adjust the storey height as needed. -iggy |
March 11, 2014 - 3:08pm | I think the optimal question is how strongly do we feel about the PGC towers being a statement of PGC power? If its yes then by all mean raise the height of some of the other buildings if no then lower the PGC towers. Personally, i'm thinking that since PGC has sponsored the developement of a trade language, was instrumental in the First Sathar War, controls the tetrach pyramids, and was the first mega corp in the frontier i feel this corporation is full of itself and views itself as the single most important organization in the frontier. Thus the towers beg to be a statement. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 12, 2014 - 1:30am | Ok, I'm strong on the 1000 meter ego of PGC, so I gave them some competition from the vrusk, two hive towers. Both of these are sitting at our current world record class heights. The emerald tower is 910.25 meters with the 100 meter antenna on top. The glass tower is 703.9 meters with its 100 meter antenna on top. For reference, the Burj Khalifa building in Dubai is 828 meters. I figure the vrusk built these two beautiful towers and the execs of PGC let it get under their skin so they built the PGC towers to one up them. Neadless to say they totally missed that the vrusk were builfing for the beauty and the height was to get up where everyone could see and appreciate them. Many vrusk are now pissed at PGC for obstructing the view. The antenna on the emerald tower is ment to convey light and symbolize a crown reverencing ancient hive queens. -iggy |
March 12, 2014 - 2:49am | I think you just nailed it. The vrusk towers are indeed beautiful. the vrusk towers are just off the Port Loren map to the west of the PGC towers? What do you think about the city computer and star law building having been designed by a vrusk? EDIT: the business plaza just to the west of the PGC towers- is that connected to the vrusk towers? It could be in that vrusk businesses are trade houses dedicated to one industry/business unless they have become a conglomerate. Even though vrusk might have built a business plaza it would not be exclusive to vrusk business- business is business and other members of the core four would have businesses there. The vrusk towers, though, probably have a high concentration of vrusk trade houses or could have been built by a conglomerate. I'm kind of liking the idea of a vrusk archetectual trade house that developes and build properties across the Frontier. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 12, 2014 - 6:10am | I like it too. All I can say is that Port Loren had better be completely techtonically inactive. A good shake and I can image all that coming tumbling down. It's also a good set up for 9/11 style attack. Only in this case I doubt the PGC towers will come down as cleanly. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
March 12, 2014 - 8:27am | Would PGC have anti air defenses in place to protect the towers? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 12, 2014 - 11:08am | I think the police building with the computer center on top of it could be vrusk designed. I made it a shorter building on the east side of the city. I envision the sea port to the east and the east side having a height restriction. I do wonder if the computer center on top of the police building is "the" city computer. It seems to small, yet it is in a protected location. I imagine the computer is dedicated to police work and the big city computer and file servers is in a larger secure building elsewhere. I am not worried about tectonic stability. There are many skyscrapers on the ring of fire. But Port Loren was likely geologically chosen along with weather, sea port, and space port needs in mind before the city was founded. This leads to my desire to develop a city master plan with road layout before I expand further. The hive towers were drawn separately and imported into the city drawing. This is a more engineering take from the YouTube speed drawing method. I am now going to get back to the thead purpose and focus on drawing the PGC towers now that I am at peace with their height. I'm gonna place it's skybridge(s) and then work in jedi's floor plans. But first I have to beat on Jurak to finish writing about Moonworld skads. -iggy |
 March 14, 2014 - 7:51am | Adding the hive towers makes it look more proportional. They just looked too out of place before. The whole thing looks great with all the 3d models. Nice job Iggy. |
March 16, 2014 - 7:03pm | Back in the '90s I read a novel called Vertical Run which turned out to be quite a page turner. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_Run Premise is that an exec does his morning run and showers at work but as he's settling into his office a pair show up and try to kill him. He had been a veteran and CIA operative (wet work) in Viet naum and he manages to kill them with a wound to his hand. Not sure whats going on he goes out to the elevator lobby on his floor of the building and there is another pair which he spots as killers but they see him and he runs a bluff till one spots his hand. he manages to kill them with a gun liberated from the other pair. The novel turns into a hunt, a vertical run with the protagonist and the reader slowly figuring out what's going on. I've been thinking about that story as this thread developed. The Twin Towers would be a good setting for such an adventure. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 4, 2014 - 6:50pm | I reread the following on page 5 of the Alpha Dawn Basic book in the section titles The Map and Playing Pieces. The two adventures included in the STAR FRONTIERS basic game take place on the large city map. The map shows the downtown area of Port Loren. Areas to the east, west and south of the map are residential. The spaceport is to the north. Each square on the map is 5 meters across. Most large buildings (the Government Building, Pan-Galactic Corporation headquarters, the Medical Complex, etc.) extend several stories below ground as well as two or three stories above ground. Pedestrian walkways connect some buildings, and cross above the roads. The monorail is built above the buildings and walkways. This contradicts my design of Port Loren with tall buildings. I stewed on this while commuting to work. I do a lot of star frontiers pondering while commuting to work. My take on this is that the basic game book is writing about a young Port Loren. The section of Port Loren shown in the map is said to be the down town area with residential areas around it on all sides but the north. This make the down town area feel quite small like a new city. Thus I see this as a description of early Port Loren. Then the next paragraph states that the heights of the buildings are all two to three stories. This also feels like a new city where height is not yet financially justifiable. I am going to map Port Loren as I see it from FY111 and beyond. The star port is still to the north, but now surrounded by city whereas in basic game era it was remote from the city. The residential to the west has been displaced by harbor front expansion. I see the west as a natural harbor and ocean shipping becoming important as Gran Quivera become a major population world. The east and south have had their residential areas pushed out to suburbs as the city grew. BTW, where in the books is the comment about there being a connection between the PGC buildings? Also, from my work modeling doors that fit the core four races and my research of real skyscrapers such as One World Trade Center, I am going to increase my storey height from 3.3 meters to something higher. This will make me go back and rework the hive towers after I get done with the PGC towers. -iggy |
April 5, 2014 - 3:51am | The map depicts elevated walkways over the streets and the same depiction is used between the luxury appartments and the PGC building. If the buildings are only 3 stories tall then I would say that this overhead walkway must be on the 2nd floor. if they are skyscrapers then its probably high up. Skyscrappers need to be designed from the ground up with footings deep into the earth/bed rock. Its not possible to build a 3 story building and then add more stories latter to turn it into a skyscraper. Of course it could be that a dralasite not a human designed this building and planned for it to be a skyscraper but only built to suit need in the beginning. PGC and the twin tower both have rounded edges which we could suppose to reflect a non human influence. Captive Planet (Endless Quest book) portrays the PGC tower as a sky scraper. While I would normally tend to take AD as having heavier wt. when i comes to the cannon, in this case I think we should go with Captive Planet. A mega corp headquarters that is only 3 stories tall? Sure in the beginning of the Pan Galactic corporation when it was a non megacorp it could of had a 3 story headquarters but while the AD material would suggest early history when only PGC was a megacorp it doesn't suggest that early because PGC is a mega corp, the sathar war has been fought, star law & Space fleet established and Port Loren has become the Federated capitol of the star sector. Star Law headquarters could be 3 stories, I believe there is a training base on Morgaine's World and no reason that there cant be satellite offices scattered around the Planet or a vehcile Depot elsewhere. Hospital? i deliver food for the drug reps to doctor's at Brigham's & Women's Hospital, Children's Hospital, Mass General Hospital, Dana Farber Clinic, and Boston Medical center and all of these places have a massive campus. Leave out mass general and Bostons med center and the others all had new tall building (30-40 story range) going up in the last decade, Boston Childrens is always adding new construction and most of that is going up. Point is that the kind of city that Port Loren is would require massive hospitals and that there aught to be a closer to a dozen of them. The medical center needs to be bigger than 3 stories. EDIT & NOTE: If the PGC building reflects a dralasite influence its interesting that other cannon material lists a human as the CEO. So there could be an interesting story of the founding of PGC with a human and dralasite partnership but latter in history PGC is soley in the control of a human.... I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 5, 2014 - 10:26am | I totally missed the yellow walking bridge between the two buildings on the map. I like the captive planet information to support the existance of the towers. Concerning the height changes over time. I would say that the basic book is placed earlier in time than the expanded book. Then I think Port Loren would have height restrictions due to the nearby star port. With time and growth the star port would become inadequate and a new larger star port would be built further away north from the city. This would allow the height restrictions to be lifted. Also remember the financial aspect of a small starting city and a mature successfull city. I would think that the height restrictions caused the growth down that is noted by the buildings being several levels underground. I think that PGC kept the same shape when they went tall because it had become iconic to their local image. Of course they had to tear down their existing buildings to build from the foundations up. The Star Law, police, and fire building will remain unchanged as a three story or so building. Concerning more hospitals, yes. As I grow the city out I will disperse them among the buildings. I really want to expand the city map, but am focusing on designing the PGC towers first. -iggy |
April 5, 2014 - 5:11pm | Alright. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
April 5, 2014 - 11:20pm | Dug this up in the PGC archives while I was researching the construction history of the PGC Towers in Port Loren. Seems that right after they finished the super structure of the towers a yazirian named Ylain Gobur, famous for free climbing skyscrapers throughout the frontier, snuck onto the site at dawn and climbed the residential tower. The climb took six hours and he was not apprehended by security or police until after he had reached the top and then glided down to a lower level where authorities were waiting for him. Local news helicopters filmed the ascent. Later, net rumors have it that the entire event was a PGC publicity stunt because security are seen on camera several times watching Ylain when they could have apprehended him. Here is a news helicopter photo of Ylain on the 250th floor waiving to the camera crew just prior to the final ascent. Here is a photo of Ylain with a PGC security guard on the ground floor being escorted from the premises.  -iggy |
September 30, 2014 - 3:57am | did we settle on the Twin towers being 1000m and 200 stories? Remember Frontier Stories might be taller since som of the aliens they accomodate are taller than humans. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 30, 2014 - 5:17am | I was just looking again at the pictures and the thought hit me. How much would these things sway at the top? I bet you don't want to work on the upper floors if you suffer from motion sickness. Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
