 October 21, 2012 - 6:29am | If there was a search feature I'd check to see if this question has already been done. Something has just hit my mind about needler weapons. Why are the needler weapons in SF so lame where other sci-fi games and in some stories these things are some of the nastiest weapons you'll come across. HALO the needler is a high rate of fire weapon. Warhammer 40K these things are deadly sniper weapons. So why does SF rules make needlers so weak, not even useful against skiensuits or inertia screens. There needs to be an upgrade of the needler weapons in SF. Different and more powerful models. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
 October 21, 2012 - 12:22pm | First off we need to reclasify these as gauss weapons which is what the are. Then explain the whimpiness as that the were developed by philosophical dralasites on a liberal guns are bad kick. They have survived as a viable product since places like Clarion have strict gun laws these are permitted for personal defense. Next add in credible gauss weapons capable of shredding a target and consider adding a gauss weapons skill to the skill list. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 October 21, 2012 - 1:28pm | I think the comparison is more like this. A needler is like a shot gun firing bird shot loads. Even with the small shot its very deadly at close range but dissipates over distance. Needler loads are longer then shot and their flight profile may slow them or make them more prone to erratic spin so a slower velocity may be more desirable so the needles fly straight. Also, looking at SF tech, they may not necessary be gauss or electro magnetic driven. They may be gas driven or binary propellent driven which would account for why they are less powerful then a gauss weapon design. I would suggest designing new needler weapons that fit the profile more adequettely then just reclassifying the old weapon. Obviously in the early 80's the designers weren't thinking about rail guns or gauss weapons as personal weapons when they designed the game. You really didnt start seeing that as a popular weapon choice in RPGs until the late 80's and early 90's. |
October 21, 2012 - 3:08pm | According to Schick in '99, he and Zeb designed Alien Worlds with gauss weapons before a new design team changed it into Star Frontiers and deleted the gauss weapons. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 October 21, 2012 - 5:00pm | I'd love to see a legit workup of the HALO needler. |
 October 21, 2012 - 6:12pm | I thought the point (pun intended) of needler weapons was not the damage they caused but the toxins they were coated with. Sort of the more power versions of blow dart guns. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 October 21, 2012 - 7:32pm | I thought the point (pun intended) of needler weapons was not the damage they caused but the toxins they were coated with. Sort of the more power versions of blow dart guns. This is how I have always viewed needlers. They are a safe form of personal defense. Coat the needler with a drug to immobilize and not kill or inflict much damage. These would be used where a person might use a taser.-iggy |
 October 21, 2012 - 10:18pm | As rattraveller and iggy wrote, I too thought of needlers as more of a non-lethal weapon. Unless of course you coated them with poison. |
October 22, 2012 - 6:59am | I think we could say that the needlers are a binary propellant but I also think they could be the non lethal/ sub-dual version of the Gauss category of weapons much like sonic stunner is the non lethal/sub-dual weapon of the beam weapon's category. and so what if skien suits and inertia screens nullify needlers, anit shock implant nullifies a lot of other weapon effects. BTW the books explicitly states that the needles are magnetically accelerated but if we add guass weapons- pistol, rifle, and heavy tripod version, as well as a boarding shotgun that wont damage space ships but shoots a spread of disks that mimic burst fire in autoweapons and is short ranged. I think that a separte category of Gauss weapons should be created with needlers in it instead of projectile weapons category where needlers currently are. otherwise you'd end up with a monster list of weapons for that one skill. EDIT: the above comments about changing weapon's categories presumes that semi automatic and shot guns will also be added to the projectile weapons category I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 22, 2012 - 7:40am | I think we could say that the needlers are a binary propellant but I also think they could be the non lethal/ sub-dual version of the Gauss category of weapons much like sonic stunner is the non lethal/sub-dual weapon of the beam weapon's category. and so what if skien suits and inertia screens nullify needlers, anit shock implant nullifies a lot of other weapon effects. BTW the books explicitly states that the needles are magnetically accelerated but if we add guass weapons- pistol, rifle, and heavy tripod version, as well as a boarding shotgun that wont damage space ships but shoots a spread of disks that mimic burst fire in autoweapons and is short ranged. I think that a separte category of Gauss weapons should be created with needlers in it instead of projectile weapons category where needlers currently are. otherwise you'd end up with a monster list of weapons for that one skill. EDIT: the above comments about changing weapon's categories presumes that semi automatic and shot guns will also be added to the projectile weapons category Do any of you guys include the Gauss weapons from the SFman? Or the shot guns? On topic: There could be a traditional needler (projectile) AND a gauss equivalent, too. |
October 22, 2012 - 2:27pm | I try to give NPCs weapons that make sense for what they are. So if a SFman weapon fits better I use it. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
October 22, 2012 - 4:08pm | All these ideas, I'm starting to think we could add in weapons like 40K's Eldar shuriken catapults or from the video game Unreal the Razorjack which is still a weapon that fires razor discs at the target. Although if we're going to make a gauss version of the needler we should call them flechettes instead to make a clear difference between them. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
October 22, 2012 - 4:59pm | All these ideas, I'm starting to think we could add in weapons like 40K's Eldar shuriken catapults or from the video game Unreal the Razorjack which is still a weapon that fires razor discs at the target. Although if we're going to make a gauss version of the needler we should call them flechettes instead to make a clear difference between them. Agreed. Flechettes always sounded badder anyways. "The dude picks up a Flechette rifle and fires at you point blank range..." |
October 22, 2012 - 7:04pm | Can't believe I am going to mention this but for those of you who want to see some interesting melee and a few ranged weapons and how they work on the human body go over to youtube and check out: Zombie Go Boom In their third season now. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
 October 22, 2012 - 7:34pm | Ahh, now we know what you do in your spare time  .Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
October 23, 2012 - 1:22am | I used to play BattleTech and I liked the gauss cannon in there. Also in the movie Demolition Man, I believe that Wesley Snipes uses a gauss rifle near the end of the movie, IIRC, then again it could have been a particle accellerator gun too. I have thought that the KH system should have some type of gauss cannon added to the ships weapons list. As for the needlers I think they should be left as is, but it would be cool to have a new catagory of weapons. Gauss/Flechette, or maybe a split of the two. The gauss catagory for KH weapons and the flechette category for personel weapons? There was a thread here that was looking at gauss weapons before. Actually there were several conversations around this subject already. Maybe we should combine them into one. |
October 23, 2012 - 1:39am | Ok, after careful research look at SFman #8 pg 52 for Gauss rifle. It has already been writen up. The author was Chris Harper. I knew I had seen this somewhere else. |
October 23, 2012 - 3:44am | Ok, after careful research look at SFman #8 pg 52 for Gauss rifle. It has already been writen up. The author was Chris Harper. I knew I had seen this somewhere else. Ok that article has an assault rifle and sniper rifle all that's missing from this category is a carbine length flechette gun, a pistol, and a tripod/crew served weapon and you essentially have a whole weapons category to update the Ad weapons list with in a coherent way- it has entry level weapons, side arms, long rifle and hvy duty can openers. and it justifies the inclussion of a gauss weapon skill as well, which i think makes sense. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 27, 2012 - 4:48am | Ok, after careful research look at SFman #8 pg 52 for Gauss rifle. It has already been writen up. The author was Chris Harper. I knew I had seen this somewhere else. Ok that article has an assault rifle and sniper rifle all that's missing from this category is a carbine length flechette gun, a pistol, and a tripod/crew served weapon and you essentially have a whole weapons category to update the Ad weapons list with in a coherent way- it has entry level weapons, side arms, long rifle and hvy duty can openers. and it justifies the inclussion of a gauss weapon skill as well, which i think makes sense. Yes, and I've come up with some ideas of my own. Like smaller capacity clips with an SEU source built into them. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
