 September 12, 2011 - 5:42pm | Need to have at least one city on Mars; something like the city/colony in aurther C Clark's The Sands of Mars. But a few place to visit might be good. and since its a big planet with some gravity I'm thinking some mag-lev or other such rail system to connect major sites. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 12, 2011 - 5:51pm | While earth likely has a size 5-6 space station in orbit, Mars probably has a station that does not even qualify as a size 1 station by KHs terms. However, it will be an important place to refuel before journeying to the outer system. Likely fuel is produced on Mars and shipped to orbit. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 September 13, 2011 - 12:08am | OK, so there is Helium and Port Lowell on Mars, and Station Odyssey in orbit... What about Deimos and Phobos? The Banzai Research Institute and The Roadhouse Freight Waystation? Should there be any significance attributed to mars-crossing near-belt asteroids? It is known some of these could be stable, and some may even take hitchhikers on shorter and/or less-costly rides to other solar-orbits. Though windows of travel can be 1-10(or greater) years apart near-randomly, the cost and time reductions are significant. The gravity corridors are another method of finding some reduction in cost, but not reliably reducing time. That is all dependant on how far back the KW craft are scaled. Oh humans!!  We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
September 13, 2011 - 9:32am | chemical drives and emerging plasma drives base on RW drawing board plasma drives. Eagle landers and similar design with Apollo style capsules on a modular frame work. I see two levels to this setting- 1 is a commercial wild west free for all with no governments in space as per the 1967 treaty. and the other level is the emergence of soverign states on Lunar and Mars when corporations piss off their employees enough. both stages in this setting's history would be ripe for conflict and adventure. There are no aliens to encounter in the system so you need conflict to happen somewhere. the setting could easily branch into a colonization scenario involving a hibernation ship travelling to a near by star system. but that effectively leaves the setting behind, merely using it as a spring board. Naturally this scenario would involve a thriving ecosystem with dangerous plants and animals at the very least because a straight terra forming game could be run on Mars with some much more potential. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 13, 2011 - 9:34am | I'm liking Sagan city as a name for a settlement on Mars but it also occurs to me that we should not leave Arthur C Clark out but it seems to me that a nice big space station orbiting Earth might be the best location for naming after him- could even use a 2001 style ring station as seen in the movie. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 13, 2011 - 8:13pm | A Mars Odyssey Station around Mars as a scaled back NASA version of the Clarke Ring Station, seems nicer to me than ignoring the International Space Station platform already present around Earth. Helium (as a nod to R. A. Heinlein) Sagan City (obviously for C. E. Sagan) Galilei (named for G. Galilei, earliest observation explorer of Mars) Huygens and Cassini are also important names as early Mars explorers ... Good for Martian Geological and Meteorological Observatories on the Moons Many names would likely come directly from the local terrain, which already has names... [1] Others are likely to be taken from important (yet-unnamed) people involved in the process... [2] Celebrity-nods will likely be in the same category as Alternate-names given by locals, and not be found in official reports and surveys... [3] [1] The Isles of Clymenus are mesa like formations and could develop small towns, and should have names names; like Clymenus, Phrixa, Elis, Aethyta, Canea, Akakallis, Crete and Cydon [2] [Man Who First Landed on Mars] Colony [Woman Who First Landed on Mars] Colony [Chinese Industrial Tycoon Who First Landed on Mars] Colony [India's First Martian Actress] Colony [Russia's First Dead Martian] Colony [3] The Asimov Robotics Martian Institute ... (just throwing it the list... I see this as started by the ecentric veteran martian robotics technician, unofficially responsible for training all new technicians on maintenance and repair of martian robotic-equipment... this is not a real martian institute of higher-learning, but an informal fraternity of martian robotics-techs, that regularly pay-homage to the foundation-series mythology...) Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
September 13, 2011 - 8:32pm | I'd expect a nod to Burroughs with something like Barsoom Base. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 14, 2011 - 8:06pm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_craters_on_Mars Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 September 14, 2011 - 5:02pm | Zubrin would probably get his name on something.
A mining colony perhaps. Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
September 14, 2011 - 6:49pm | The Mars Society is an international space advocacy non-profit organization dedicated to promoting the human exploration and settlement of the planet Mars. It was founded by Robert Zubrin and others in 1998 and attracted the support of notable science fiction writers and filmmakers, including Kim Stanley Robinson and James Cameron. The organization works to educate the public, the media and government of the benefits of Mars exploration, networking the communities involved and exploring the possibilities of privately-funded missions to the red planet. Zubrin lives in Lakewood, Colorado; he has two daughters, Rachel and Sarah. [Do we have our first famous NPC citizens?] The Society was formally established in August 1998, when over 700 delegates – astronomers, scientists, engineers, astronauts, entrepreneurs, educators, students, and space enthusiasts – attended a weekend of talks and presentations from leading Mars exploration advocates. Since then, the Society, guided by its International Steering Committee, has grown to over 4,000 members and some 6,000 associate supporters across more than 50 countries around the world. Members of the Society are from all walks of life, and all actively work to promote the ideals of space exploration and the opportunities for exploring Mars. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
September 17, 2011 - 6:11am | So... I just need to recruit 700? Cool!
Port Zubrin, a colony located 150 km from Olympus Mons. Founded near a subterranian source of water discovered in 2031 by the eighth Mars Direct mission crew. Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
September 17, 2011 - 9:35am | ~150km? northwest? Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
September 18, 2011 - 4:17pm | Good to see Zubrin got a colony.
@spirit
I understand your disbelief at such a narrow timeline, however, the mars direct plan is designed to use current "off the shelf" technologies. In addition heavy lift rockets capable of launching the mission is due to come on line from SpaceX in 2015. At 2year cycles for conjunction class missions to mars multiplied by eight missions is 16 years. 15+16=31 Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
September 19, 2011 - 2:37am | But would they really happen that quickly? It isn't a matter of disbelief, I know there is enough on the table we could do it if we pulled it together... but many will still prefer to move at a comfortable crawl before running full tilt... just to be sure. Considering the risks, I couldn't blame anyone for being a stickler to protocol and safety. Given that a Mars mission would last 'at least' 2 years, a substantial habitat must be on the Mars surface before the crew leaves Earth, and it needs to be able to weather a missed window and possible retrieval by another mission. How many F9H launches would it take to get this habitat to the surface ahead of time? Since 2 years is a long time to sit around in a greenhouse and play bingo, you would presumably want a Mars Rover and some associated consumables on the surface when you arrive. How many F9H launches might this take? Then there is the the... unfortunate miscalculations... I would be remiss if there were not one or two seeded into the proposed timeline... possibly even at a non-mortality level... a few parts are held overtime for inspections because of a possible faulty ring... someone misplaced cargo invoices... a brush-fire skirmish manages to catch necessary parts as an unintended casualty. Split some of the difference and handle it in a SF-style mechanic Major Mission Setbacks: one near-orbit abort (one mission X2), one failed landing no-casualties no-return (one mission x2), Organizational shift due to financial crunch in a major political undertow all plans revised (one mission x4), one set of backlash brush-fire conflicts due to previous political shift cause redirected attentions (two missions, not necessarily consecutive, are x2,)... Minor Modifiers: add a few mishaps in the ground-side pipeline ( moderate inconveniences +15% to total) add changes in plans from returning data and other science-based redirects (minor inconvenience +10%) add a progressive mission familiarity (a bonus of -1% cumulative per successive mission up to -10%) add a design upgrade after 5, 10, and 20 missions (-5% bonus per minor upgrade for all later missions... 15% maximum) New total after 5 events (in 16 years, 1 event every 3 years, 1 per political term, every once in a while a political term gets a double hit, seems fairly accurate but assume this is spread out over the final result anyway)... and 2049 becomes the earliest date of the proposed 8th Mars Direct mission... and by that calculation, and all mishaps considered, likely only the first or second landing party at most. The previous 6-7 missions would be used to survey for a site, drop unmanned equipment, and deploy robotic probes in preparation. The first four manned missions will likely see small crews and rotate most if not all over the previous crews. So consider the first major haul of colonists not possible to even schedule for until mission 12-15. That puts the official opening of the colony at around 2065 and the last of the 'first wave' colonists arriving in 2071. And that is assuming a 'Direct to Zubrin Base Colonization' Plan by an independent interest racing forward and beating a more leisurely 'Forward to Mars' plan that hops on the moon for a few rounds first, as a preparation phase... by about 40-50 years. But at considerable risk to those colonists I might add. Again, I know it can be done, but really how far do you want to test the luck of 10,000 people that far from any rescue if something goes wrong. We don't currently have that much 'sure knowledge' what they will need to survive, which is why the bounce off Luna plan is considered so important... A Lunar base need not be permanent, and need only house 10-100 for a few years to a decade... but what is learned in that time will go a long way toward putting more people further away, in somewhat less inhospitable environs. Next issue, not many such quick mission independents are likely to be feasible for awhile (really who?), and that sets it back another 10-20 years at least... it is not a global 'space race' there are no lines in the sand, the prospects of setting up bases on other planets will require a global team effort from the space-community and truly interested people... not that some independants will never try to prove that wrong... nor would I say all will certainly fail. ...I think I disjointed my exemplified cogitate  ... my thoughts went in several directions at once... I had to put them somewhere.Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
September 19, 2011 - 5:49am | Ok spirit. You convinced me, even though many of your arguments don't exactly jibe with the MarsDirect mission profile I can see the likelihood of setbacks reeking havoc with the timeline. Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
September 20, 2011 - 6:04am | Yes, I made a few alterations and biased some assumptions... Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
 October 11, 2013 - 1:54am | Thes - Should there be any significance attributed to mars-crossing near-belt asteroids? It is known some of these could be stable, and some may even take hitchhikers on shorter and/or less-costly rides to other solar-orbits. Why not launch the asteroids in the direction needed. Maybe even put a small base on it - Space1999. Jedi - Barsoom Base on Mars? Sounds like John Carter. |
October 11, 2013 - 3:39am | Thes - Should there be any significance attributed to mars-crossing near-belt asteroids?
Well you know that peeps will be looking for names for towns and such and someone will think Barsoom is a good idea. It is known some of these could be stable, and some may even take hitchhikers on shorter and/or less-costly rides to other solar-orbits. Why not launch the asteroids in the direction needed. Maybe even put a small base on it - Space1999. Jedi - Barsoom Base on Mars? Sounds like John Carter. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 11, 2013 - 3:39am | Thes - Should there be any significance attributed to mars-crossing near-belt asteroids?
Well you know that peeps will be looking for names for towns and such and someone will think Barsoom is a good idea. It is known some of these could be stable, and some may even take hitchhikers on shorter and/or less-costly rides to other solar-orbits. Why not launch the asteroids in the direction needed. Maybe even put a small base on it - Space1999. Jedi - Barsoom Base on Mars? Sounds like John Carter. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 October 11, 2013 - 4:52am | Sexy, red-skin naked chicks: The real reason to get your ass to Mars!  |
October 11, 2013 - 6:32am | And dont forget the hookers with three boobs! I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
October 11, 2013 - 11:48pm | OK. Sexy, red-skin naked, chicks with three (or more) titties: The real, real reason to get your ass to Mars!   |
October 22, 2013 - 9:06pm | *faceboobs* Not an impossibility, with genetic engineering and regrowth therapy... might yet be a ways off though. The Martian Propaganda Train: "You can take my freedom, but you can never take my boobies!" I crunched on some figures, and pondered the martian mag-lev project. My best speculative logistics suggested it'd need another 50-100 years to get traction in the local economic politics. By that time we'd be looking at two or three major municipal colonies (10,000+ in pop.) and a dozen bases recognized as outlier townships, four to six would likely be viable municipal colonies of smaller size (5,000+ in pop.) along the main transit line. Cooperation from all the colonies that would be connected is key, hold-outs would delay construction, require extensive rerouting, and/or develop political hostility.
The biggest requirement hurdles would be the cooperative attitude of the colonies, the actual capabilities of a population to extend resources to projects beyond their reach, pressures of hierarchical interests from 'back home' on earth; and the actual availability of locally transferable resources -- in short; a strong native martian identity and market.
I don't see this as likely by the 2150 time schedules, though the roots of it surely start by then. Amid the 22nd century martian mindset you would find the 'true martians' who were born and raised in sufficient numbers to have a local identity with their parent colony -- and to some degree with their colony's philosophies of martian life. This would be a time of true inter-colonial/intra-martian consolidations, but the fruits of these early (and often troubled) ties would need another few generations to work out their philosophical differences and independent needs.
Perhaps as early as 2160, someone proposes a forward looking logistics cooperative in a nonpartisan formal mission statement; a project that would connect the three major populated colonies (which are still all under 10k strong, at this time) for economic security and mutual cooperation in times of emergency... but I wouldn't expect a really inclusive agency to gain the needed support to take actions on an inevitably revised form of that ideal project, before sometime after 2180. Perhaps sometime between the end of the 22nd century and the beginning of the 23rd there might be a majority agreement between the three major colonies and the smaller municipal bases in route between them, then a local charter of martian interests could establish the MTRLI (Martian Transportation and Resource Logistics Insurance) system, and the Martian MagLev Maintainers would be commissioned as a corp of "Main Trolley" Engineers by 2245. The new MTRLI would be a central part, and major contributing factor, of the hegemonic alliance of colonial kinships that the three (now populated over 10k strong) major municipal colonies express in open unity. Oh humans!! We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".~ anymoose, somewhere on the net... so... if you square a square it becomes a cube... if you square a cube does it become an octoid? |
eighth? direct mission? in 2031? Might be pushing the expectations of even a break-thru in rapid delivery. How about 205? ... and opening the mission count to the International Space Community as a whole ...