The Black Hole

jedion357's picture
jedion357
April 3, 2011 - 9:40pm
plans are a foot to do a re-imagining of Disney's the Black Hole
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/rorschachsrants/news/?a=14767
http://www.chud.com/22470/the-black-hole-remake-to-be-hard-scifi/

while the movie didn't suck as bad as the recent John Carter of mars movie; it was not good.
Since it seems that they will make a different movie with the science about black holes updated and plan a harder approach to it this could be a good thing.

Question:
Would run a "Black Hole" module in SF?

How would you update/ re-imagine it?

in case you missed the original heres the wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Hole

I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!
Comments:

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 9, 2011 - 11:39pm
Cool
love the robots in the original, but i always fell asleep half-way through the movie,
it is a recomendable classic, in spite of having poor quality, and long 'odysseys' of nothing.

Yes, and carefully... with some long thought out planning. which i havn't done much of, because i'd rather just avoid the monsters(black holes), and the black hole cleche' and technical problems that might come up.

Dungeon magazine had a 'black hole'/'saragaso dragon' adventure for spelljammer that i used once... closest i've ever been to the idea in practice.

In the movie, i recall it was a research ship in orbit, studying the black hole, and everyone dies because there is no way to escape once things go bad. Not sure that would go over well as an adventure.
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

Deryn_Rys's picture
Deryn_Rys
April 4, 2011 - 8:07am
I would recomend that you get a copy of the Book, rather than use the movie for your source material. The book was actually quite better and had a whole lot of heaven/hell allegory going on in the background, that the movie failed to properly capture (I'm trying my best to be nice). Anyway I do agree that I've had a guilty fixation over the years of running that scenario as an adventure, but my gaming group's exploits were never of an explorer/investigator nature, so I never got to work out the details, and put them on such an Adventure.
"Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words
"Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words
"You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words
"Did you here that?" -Famous last words

Sargonarhes's picture
Sargonarhes
April 4, 2011 - 2:26pm
I've heard of the remake, the director said there was one thing he does not want to change for the remake however. He really wants to keep the large red robot Maximillian in it. That robot has an iconic status as one of the awesome kiiler robots of sci-fi. What's not scary about a large red robot with twin spinning blade.

Didn't know the John Carter of Mars movie was already out.

For the Cygnus you have to make it a HS 20 ship, mainly because the Cygnus was supposed to be a mile long. I realize no ship in SF is that big so you'll have to go with what you can. The Palamino is easily a HS 5 with a squat body, unless you want to make it different.
In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same.

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 9, 2011 - 11:43pm
Oh, I forgot about the theological stuff in the book! that was why ol'boy went nuts... yes made a more erie sense in the book.
The movie was toned way down for Disney's audiences, and still a touch too scary for them.
But I remeber always thinking the robots were kewl, they reminded me of Orco.

Tie four H5s together?Foot in mouth
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
April 4, 2011 - 4:42pm
yeah Maximillian was the bomb but probably more so because he didn't talk which made him implacable.

Disney did tone it down- no blood when Big red's spinning blades ripped into that guy.

I watched clips on you tube and the special effects better be much better then the original


John Carter of Mars is of a quality that says Straight to video- check out you tube and see what I mean- talk about low budget.

I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 4, 2011 - 6:50pm
I watched clips on you tube and the special effects better be much better then the original
 -jedion357

I think it will be, Wink even mediocre movie-magic is an improvment over 20 years ago.
I would be probably be happy if it was black&white retro 40's musical, however, if they really put in effort to make it work.

Brought to you in breathtaking cinemascope!
 by the master of the mysterious! and the savant of suspense!
 you will absolutly fall in-to this far-flung-future-feature, and may never escape the frightining musical escapade of, the BlAcK HoLe!!! Alfred Hitchcock Presents..... the oblivion of the void awaits you.
di-di-didli-di di-didli-di di-di-di RKO Radio Picture....
SurprisedFoot in mouthCool
WTF?!? Laughing
ahem... sorry..

Animated test footage for John Carter of Mars project....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H2ZdSbyHhQ
This looks interesting....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc9PQWlxkqY&NR=1
anyone up for hijacking the set for a SF LARP? Cool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlrcI_OSeyY&feature=related
got a better video for the John Carter movie than I found?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLaHJvF59Fg
remake! remake! remake!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6EYuMosAcU
I got to get me one of those!
ok that was fun, but I didn't find much about the NEW  John Carter of Mars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgCxCZNkQ9E&feature=related
just lots of old stuff.

And some really awesome atomic-rockets!!!Cool Rocketpunk, FTW!!!
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
April 8, 2011 - 1:41pm
I'm unsure about the heaven/hell motiffs they included, while being religious person and having attended seminary I found the theme that a black hole could be the gate way to either heaven or hell rubs me the wrong way even as a kid I didn't like it. The cathedral window and angel scene at the end was just a bit much.

To be fair the scene of the red robot presiding in hell at the end is a very very cool, the artist in me loves it.

I think that they would have down better to weave a theme of "You make your own heaven or hell." into the movie.

Dr. Rienhart is in hell because of abition to be an acclaimed scientist and he could not face his recall to earth so he's sat out here on the edge of the event horizon of this black hole stewing in his mad schemes believing that the people of earth will fall down and worship him despite the monstrocities he's perpetrated on his crew. Plus he's created this robot Maximillion that he actually fears. So his ambition has driven him mad and left him in hell. In the end as the ship is being ripped apart he really finds hell realizing he's failled and will never be vindicated.

Dr. Kate McCrae is dealing with her own bit of hell because her father has been missing and she has unresolved issues (perhaps harsh words were her last communication with him) plus her lattent Psy tallent taps her into others emotions and thoughts and she struggles to block them out. So she starts in a bit of hell but through the course of the movie resolves her demons and finds a bit of heaven and love- she was the only woman and hollywood has to have a love interest in a movie- its mandatory.

Dr. Alex Durant (Anthony Perkins) he actually goes to hell at the end of Maximillian's whirling blades. His heaven/hell motiff could be that he's where Rienhart was 20 years ago. Desiring to give into his ambitions but still has enough of a soul to know that their is a moral decision for him to make. His bit of hell is the indecision as he vascilates between the 2 polarities- wanting to succumb to Rienhart's tempation but knowing intuitively its wrong.

Captain Dan Holland is approaching his middle life crisis and because he's been passed over and spent too much time in grade he knows he'll retire at the rank of captain and rise no higher. So his hell is about broken dreams and depression and uncertain future. He's always been certain about his future and what he wanted but now; knowing that where he's at in the service is where he'll end in the service he has no plan or path to follow. It both scares and depresses him. The results of that make him lethargic and slow to act. So that when Dr. McCrae is going to be lobotomized its the Lt. who plays the hero while the depressed captain has been drinking. That fact piles on more guilt leading to more depression. Pluss the sexual tension that has been between him and McCrae evaporates as well with the audience and the Captain wondering if it will be the Lt that gets into her pants.

Lt. Charles Pizer. Dashing young man of action. Dashing young men are too cocky and full of them selves and naive to live in hell. He's in heaven, doing his dream job with visions of becoming a captain yada yada yada. He ends the movie with the shine taken off his Lt. bars and his "virginity" lost realizing that life is not exactly what his youthfull dreams were. And while the randy Lt does have some moments of intimacy with Dr McCrae after her rescue, she's wise enough to know that her and the Lt dont really have a future and despite here dealing with her own dealing she also knows that she still has enough baggage that getting involve would not help. So I guess the dashing Lt. never really gets in her pants.

I just dont know if I buy Earnest Borgnine as a journalist- he strikes me as a crusty "old salt" CPO more so I at a loss right now on how to write a heaven/hell motiff for him.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Deryn_Rys's picture
Deryn_Rys
April 5, 2011 - 9:37am
The reporter is the moby dick motiff, All his life he's been chasing that one big story that will give him journalistic credibility, and probably a bit of fame and fortune besides. He sees the black hole mission as his last shot to write that epic piece, before he is too old and must give up his dreams. During the story he is faced with the realization that perhaps he's wasted his life looking for that big fish, instead of accepting that what he had already accomplished was enough, and now that he's staring at the big fish he realizes that he might never get to report on it, so his hell is the knowledge that he finally got his fish, but no one will ever know about it.
"Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words
"Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words
"You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words
"Did you here that?" -Famous last words

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 11, 2011 - 8:13am
Ok after a long thought I have something solid for the OP-OT:

The cover blurb to the module Black Hole (name pending potiental alterations)..


Black Hole

A research vessel finds a missing ship, commanded by a mysterious scientist, on the edge of a black hole.

   The 'Haflinger's Trigger', a small space craft charged with seeking out and discovering "habitable life" in space, by the Yazirian Assertive Colonization Council of Athor. On mission day 54.7, six subsectors into the unexplored expanse, the exploratory craft, commanded by a steady impressive Captain Han Netherland, discovers something else of interest: the largest black hole ever detected by man. Intriguingly, the ship's robot, A.M.E.E. (Autonomous Mapping Exploration Evaluator) detects a stationary object near the neutron star, the shrouded silhouette of a vast spaceship.
   The crew soon recognizes the craft as Space Probe One, The PGC-Ex Polaris-IV 'Anatidae'... the costliest fiasco in the Frontier's history. The 'Anatidae's' eccentric commander, Dr. Rein Hanshardt -- "one of the greatest space scientists of all time" -- refused Mission Control's recall order and the 'Anatidae' has not been seen from or heard from since.

***

   Soon, A.M.E.E. learns from another 'bot, Old R.O.B., that Hanshardt is insane; and that he lobotomized his mutinous human crew, eradicating their will, and essentially leaving the men and women of 'Anatidae' mindless, spiritless automatons. Also, Hanshardt has created a devilish blue, yellow, and green robot called S.C.H.E.L.L. to help him carry out his plans. The

survivors of the 'Haflinger's Trigger' attempt to escape from Hanshardt, S.C.H.E.L.L. and his Sentry army, even as the 'Anatidaes' sets a fateful course for the neutron star. 

***


   The escape attempt fails, and characters good and evil meet their fates..
inside the strange, mystical forces of the black hole.


However, I feel the typical player emotional response, after reading this in the game store, would be:
?!?
   The escape attempt fails, and characters good and evil meet their fates inside the strange, mystical forces of the black hole.
?!?
 Everyone dies, WTF?!? What would I play that module for? Someone gonna give me a hamberger for it? 'cuz I dun'wanna take my hard made and played character into no unglorious meanin'less death. Do I get my $4.50 per word spoken in character, or sump'n?


... um ..... am..... sorry, forgive me father for I have committed a litterary sin...

It was strange and mystical in the movie, no idea how to impart that into a SF adventure, but I completely left the Heaven/Hell analogy out of the blurb, leaving only the lines about Mysterious Mystical Forces, maybe there is a Tetrarch artifact involved or something...?
Dosn't matter, at least it isn't a black hole, and there might be more of a chance for escape.... but if you really want to go the whole route, sure, I added enough extra campaign specifics to get it into the setting anyway.

Some of the descriptions of the SF FTL engines given around here, wouldn't have that much trouble getting away from a Black Hole even, though they might burn themselves out doing it, a few descriptions of the physics might even end up crossing more space than they can return from.... (think lost in space here...) but good luck doing that on purpose tho', and hitting a desired target to boot, ain't gonna happen.

Still I vote for pulling it back from a Black Hole to a Neutron Star, or at least 'Dwarf-Hole'/'Dark Neutron' thing.... whatever that would be, makes since in my head... but probably dosn't exsist.
    Inevitably it does not seem to matter if it is a Black Hole, Neutron star, Super-nova, Wolf-Rayett, main sequence, or some dark interstellar-planetoid-mass/rouge-planet... what matters is it is an unusual, extreamly rare even, interstellar oddity, difficult to stufy at intersteller distances, and has a mass that turns ships into cosmic-paste when smacked into at attanable velocity..
could be whatever you want it to be in that case, a deep space jovian-rouge, or saturnian-rouge could work just as well.... again if a rouge is traveling at greatter speeds than the interstellar ascociation time and astrochartography issues arise.... a saturnian rouge traveling at aprox. 0.10c in relation to the surrounding stars, in a far flung orbit that has it pass near the frontier every couple hundred years.. for example.

Does it fit the thought, and original idea well enough?


Checking out the net for reviews on the movie, most people just didn't like the space-tragedy. Not that I favor "pandering to the base", a healthy consideration for the base is, just that, healthy.

That aside, having done the write up for the back cover... I am very enthusiastically awaiting it's release date!

Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
April 6, 2011 - 8:12am
Nice blurb.  Just make it so that the escape is possible (i.e. drop the last line or modify it to to say "if the escape attempt fails") and you have a decent module.  As you say, no one is going to want to play if the best result of the module is a TPK.

As for "the strange, mystical forces of the neutron star".  It's not so strange or mystical.  To borrow the analogy my wife uses in her astronomy class, it's like bread and butter.  The neutron star is the bread and you're the butter.  You would just be smashed flat and smeared across the surface. Foot in mouth  Both neutron stars and white dwarfs have physical surfaces.  The gravity is immense but there is a solid surface to smack into.  Black holes are a different matter.  The rules break down when you cross the event horizon and no one knows what you find on the other side.  Of course, tidal forces will rip you apart long before you get that close, however, so the effect would be the same.



Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 10, 2011 - 12:04am
Question:
Would run a "Black Hole" module in SF?

How would you update/ re-imagine it?

 jedion357  
yes,
I'd start with a movie blurb, and work out the details in it first, so there is a basic conceptual framework.

Elements I don't think would translate well to an RPG adventure:
   The theological/mystic mysterious aria established in the movie, or book, in either litteral or metaphysical form,
   The superfluous mysterious 'horror' of the sittuations, the black hole itself, the Dr. and his insanity
   The uncertantiy of the 'pc' exploreres situation, that keep them from just offing the obvious Dr. Insane Villan in the first act
   The deeper phychological effect of realizing what the robots really are (uncanny valley shock)
   ....

Does it fit the thought, and original idea, well enough?
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
April 10, 2011 - 5:39am
thespiritcoyote wrote:
Question:
Would run a "Black Hole" module in SF?

How would you update/ re-imagine it?

 jedion357  
yes,
I'd start with a movie blurb, and work out the details in it first, so there is a basic conceptual framework.

Elements I don't think would translate well to an RPG adventure:
   The theological/mystic mysterious aria established in the movie, or book, in either litteral or metaphysical form,
   The superfluous mysterious 'horror' of the sittuations, the black hole itself, the Dr. and his insanity
   The uncertantiy of the 'pc' exploreres situation, that keep them from just offing the obvious Dr. Insane Villan in the first act
   The deeper phychological effect of realizing what the robots really are (uncanny valley shock)
   ....

Does it fit the thought, and original idea, well enough?


That pretty much axes the whole movie so I'd interpret your answer as a no.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 10, 2011 - 9:39am
nooooooooo, it's yes
   I am just pointing out the main articles of consideration there... I agree, it does cut out the bulk of the movie making that much change.... I just don't see how it would work.... written sure, and worth the read...
  But it seems to me that it would end up like one of those well-written 'mazing storybased modules that sit around just because it is cool to have on the shelf,
  but players say, 'no... um, can't make it, I have a dental appointment.'
  and GM's look at on their shelf and say '...but, nobody at my table would do that... why did I buy this again..?' scratching head perplexed, eyes crossing, trying to imagine how to set up a scene from the module for proper effect.

It would be difficult to do it justice, and include it into SF, without taking some serious creative licence. and then it wouldn't be 'Black Hole', it would be SF-010BH 'Deep Voids: Anatidae's Return' or something... which could also be cool... but really not what I intended, when I started beating my head on it, either.
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

Deryn_Rys's picture
Deryn_Rys
April 10, 2011 - 10:42am
Once again being a rebel, I have often considered writing the Black Hole scenario as a module for my Star Frontier's game, in much the same way that years ago I ran an Alien type adventure and a Terminator scenario for Star Frontier's each which were highly thought of and enjoyed by the players. None of the adventures were whole cloth reproductions, of the movies in question, but had the same feel as the originals. For example:

The Aliens scenario had a small squad of Spacefleet marines have to investigate a derelict hull size 20 ship that was on a collision coarce with a lunar colony, and whose atomic engines long range scans showed were headed towards a melt down. The characters mission was to either try to restore enough power to turn the shi away from the colony so it could explode harmlessly in space, or blow the ship up before it came into range of the colony.

When the team got aboard the derelict ship and started their exploration they left the shuttle pilot alone in the ship's shuttle, who was attacked by a scorpion like creature and in desperation used a fragmentary grenade in the shuttle's cockpit which destroyed the cockpit leaving the marines stranded on the derelict.

Needless to say that for the next few hours of gametime the heroes faced a variety of "alien' threats as they made their way to the engine room to try and restore power, and the more they shot up the place the closer the ship came to blowing up. The best part waswhen the humanoid alien grabbed the cyborg captain of the squad and crushed his cybernetic arm and called him "'Tin man". which informed the group that these alien monsters not only were deadly bio-weapons, but they could actually learn.

The few survivors managed to escape in the ship's only remaining escape pod after causing the derelict's atomics to reach critical mass (they destroyed the derelict's cooling systems), and the ship went boom with the aliens. of course when the survivors were in decontamination, one of their numbers started to shudder and convulse...and the lights dimmed as the credits began to roll. 

So by all means write the Black hole scenario, and make whatever changes you want to it, I think it world make a great adventure, and I'd run it if it was available, or if someone ran it and I could I'd play in it.
"Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words
"Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words
"You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words
"Did you here that?" -Famous last words

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 10, 2011 - 4:58pm

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 10, 2011 - 5:47pm

jedion357's picture
jedion357
April 10, 2011 - 6:12pm
I think you'd have to cut to the chase with the action where as the movie builds slowly toward the climax

However,
1. one interview with the mad doctor to layout some background (though not all of it is correct) and he will offer money, or reward for them to perform a service for him- monitor his planned dive into the black hole from a safe distance and report back his findings and the telemetry that he believes will be possible to beam back even from beyond the event horizon. Most of my players have never turned down what seems to be easy money. perhaps he offers them a working copy of his null grav generator - something that will aid them in just leaving this area.

2. role play session with the robot B.O.B., be sure to use your best Slim Pickens voice though- this should lead to some investigation of Bobs facts and then the jig is up. Maximillion and his robot army will be after them

3. Once the PCs learn the grim truth they cant be allowed to leave less they tell the truth about the mad doctor back at earth- after all he's down all this for acclaim. Now the PCs must fight their way to their ship and escape.

4. NPC takes off with the ship without them but it is destroyed

5. what else can they do? fight their way to the small scout ship at the other end of the ship.
but the environment of space is taking a hand- asteroids caught in the gravitational pull strike the ship and take out null grav generators beginning the ships premature slid into the event horizon. now you have combat and a ship suffering damage and a race against time.

6. ending: probably best to not have the scout craft not go through the black hole or singularity simply because you'll have to describe what happened in some cool way. If they do pass through then they effectively have a null grav generator on their ship and that falls into the realm of artifact in SF. Its possible for the PCs to walk away with a null grav generator but a referee should think out how that will impact his setting. Again it may be best for an ending to allow the PCs to fight the scout ship clear of the event horizon or if they managed to save a lot of time during their race against time then they should have no trouble with the gravity.


Things that are probably out is the capture of the woman and her planned lobotomy and rescue by the dashing young Lt unless she's an NPC.

In fact that may be an idea for the action- include a number of NPCs in the crew and the PCs must rescue them for exp. for every npc from their crew they get off the ship they get exp. This will complicate things when the jig goes up and max and the other robots begin to round them up and send them for lobotomization, now they PCs have several complications all over the ship.

what will be needed is deck plans for the ship- maybe not quite HS 20 but something big.

at anyhoo thats more or less how I'd run that module and it would be fairly close to the movie as well.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 13, 2011 - 8:12am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI55iNR3dSk&feature=related

Nice pictures!! AZ
I had just gone on a hunt yesterday, checking to see what elements of the ships design could be adapted....
Litterary Artistic Concept - Cygnus
seems the origional artwork shows six Ions, two mains aft, and four navigational stern.
 and what looks like two pairs of larger thrusters, that aren't seen active in any artwork, that might work as four atomics.
The entire coaxial 'tube' appeares to be for cargo-handeling, and the main docking bay, and control tower, is in the rear.
Seems it would be easy to determine a vertical-thrust-axis deck design.
Might need to be envisioned as a tripple-coaxial ship for comparison to SF architecture. Doing that would allow for the 'large glowing sections' iconic in the movie. I allways took those to represent massive machine-shps, labratories, and hydroponics facilities, that would be necessary on such a long range endevor.
 The size of the smaller exploration ship, in all comparison images, is really very small,
 The origionaly conceptualized art from the book, shows an appearce of the main ship as twice that of the movie version.

   I would go for the largest class of ship the PGC could dump resources into, and design it as a Deep Exploration/Mobile Long-Term Research Platform... taking elements of both space-station and seed ship design philosophy.
   This would definatly justify the 'the costliest fiasco in the Frontier's history' criterion, that I pulled right from the movie, and establish the larger-than-life excentrics that were behind the entire project, with respect to the origional story.
   I would also establish it as a the PGC-Ex Polaris-IV Class, PGCS 'Anatidae', as one of the most massive muscle-flex projects they have done, since the near-autonomy charter they were given apon establishing contact and trade with the Yaz, and returning with several new colony worlds and a local ally....
   The PGC is established in the flavor-text as, the over-bloated 'heroic' megacorporation, that has near autonomy by it's charter, to explore the vast expanse in the direction of the Yaz worlds.
   It is known to abuse it's power outside of the Council worlds jurisdiction, but transgressions are frequently overlooked, because of the legendary status the common citizen maintains, charter loop-holes in the origional negotiations, and the value of the resources provided.[extrapolation]
PGC-Ex Polaris-IV Class, PGCS 'Anatidae' in skeletal concept
Those were my initial thoughts, as I dumped into a new SF:BLACK HOLE PROJECT folder on my hardrive. Smile

That noted, I am changing my project-folder name to SF: The Singularity Incident - Project Cool
And I love the conceptuals AZ!!Cool This has been offically placed in my project-rotation-que  as of T minus 29hrs.39min.00sec from mark.... mark! Laughing

Love the cover! and what the inside cover, turned 90 and centerfold along the 'clasified' watermark?Cool
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 11, 2011 - 8:28am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI55iNR3dSk&feature=related
Yes the movie was a very linear-narative, in the basic screen-play form...

Act One, The Setup:
 Plot Point 1: Exciting Moment
Act Two, The Conflict:
 Plot Point 2: Point of No Return
Act Three, The Resolution:
 Plot Point 3: Final Encounter

And that fits the six plot points outlined by jedion, I have no problem hanging the core of a module on these.

However, the SF style, and modules in general, need a little different aproach,
  In addition to the basic Liner Structure, Modules need design elements that take from a Heroic Journey Narative, some elements of the early wargaming mindset, and all with a Non-Linear Narative end-product in mind.

What litterary story-telling approach the book takes, and details in the setting that differentiate from the movie, are of interest to me as an inclusion to fill out details.... but I have to defer to someone who is more familer, I havn't a copy to study.
If anyone knows where I might find a synopsis, or other write up on the book as a litterary work, let me know, please.

Finnaly, experiance has told me, there is often a need to give some inclusion to other works made by the origional artist, or at least works similer in style, so that it dosn't become too stagnated on a single enclosed environment. II am not refering to the ship as a setting peice, which is an enclosed environtment, but the overall picture of the story, and parts not seen in the film or book, but might be explored in a non-linear retelling. A large part of that comes from the SF setting, but to keep an eye on other parts that might make small inclusions, in side points outside and in support of, the expected main narative.

If I have made anyone feel that this was a Litt. 101 lecture.... my appologies... just want to make sure we can share some lexicon, so there arn't any mistaken intentions. This stuff can get Foot in mouthcomplicated when taken seriously.
 I don't want any bookcases to fall on me, cause of missplaced nalis...

The Black Hole as a Module  ...got fork?
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 11, 2011 - 4:41pm

Though I may get crucified for this comparison, i have to make it. There are a lot of similarities between The Black Hole and the 1997 movie Event Horizon.

Both feature Massive Creepy Looking Ghost Ships with mysterious tragedies.
Both feature a small scout ship that finds (or is sent) the lost vessel.
Both feature a mad scientists who knows more about the tragic events then he lets on.
Both feature the involvement of a black hole
Both feature the concept of the ship travelling to hell, literally or figuratively
Both feature a crew member being viscerated or vivasected
Both feature the destruction of the rescue ship

The only major difference being the robot sub plots which are not present in Event Horizon


thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 11, 2011 - 4:56pm
I was thinking that too,
also looking at the space ark, from starlost, the dramatics are similar...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Starlost

and The Ark has some interesting mergability with the Cygnus
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 12, 2011 - 7:23am
For the origional topic querry... I would handle it like this:

ALPHA: Standard introduction, and ref stuff...
BETA: It could seem like a bore up front, after the standard alpha intoduction stuff.
Speeding up the plot might be an option, I think I'd put enough information into it to allow a slow build up though.. early planned, and random, encounters around the ship,
   The first section could opt out for a rushed escalation of event's, if the ref thinks the group isn't up for the long approach.
 Covers Act I: 'The Setup' and ends on one of the 'Exciting Moments' Plot-points.
GAMMA: Contains primary ship section maps that can easily be explored without alerting anyone, or anything, and all the minor 'big-action' parts, and the slow clue-driven encounters.
 Covers the 'Exciting Moments' and Act II: 'The Conflict' and climaxes on 'The Point of no Return' plot points.
DELTA: This section holds the over-view master map, 'classified' extras that might be explored, the bulk of the main-plot action, and what happens when the characters push anyones 'candy like buttons' and become a threat.
 Covers 'The Point of no Return' plot points, and ACT III 'The Resolution' and climaxes on the 'The Ending' of the main plot.
EPSILON: The finnal options, wrap-ups, appendix items, and detailed suggestions on how to handle story-flow and special situations and extra information not covered elsewhere, like NPC stats and motives, ships and probes.
 Covers alternate 'Ending' climaxes, and a bunch of environmental information about the black-hole, and special rules, to handle the various ways to be turned into quantum-spaghetti, while frantically trying to defy the laws of physics, and avoid the inevitability.



epsilon would also have a special side block, to lay out what has been done in alternative retellings....
Like how Kate used her sorceress powers to protect everyone as they went through the black hole, into an alternate universe, and set up a massive planet-sized theme-park reprograming the mindless crew, and called it Eternia (I'm serious! it happened! look it up.)
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

Shell's picture
Shell
April 12, 2011 - 7:25pm
AZ_GAMER, I love your ship models! The Black Hole is a favorite movie of mine, more for sentiment, than anything else. I have also tinkered with it, and used it as a basis for an evening's game session. I would love to work on this with you. Please let me know if I can help with character or robot art!

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 12, 2011 - 8:30pm
Thanks Shell! This is more Thespiritcyote, Jedion, and Deryn's project. I just threw some inspiration concept art out there for them to work with. A re-imagined view of Vincent, bob, and maximillian would be cool. Depending on where the guys go with this I could throw an assault scout image in there for the Palomino.

I'm ok with changing the name from Palomino, however i have to admit that halflinger's trigger is hard to take seriously. Maybe shift Palomino to Mustang, or Charger to protect the oringinal IP.

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 13, 2011 - 8:07am
Sounds good, the Palamino was basically a tin-can chucked into the deep black, with about six people on board. I think the 'Haflinger's Trigger' (Trigger was a Palimino Wink) needs to be a rather small 'Work Horse' style ship, suitable for about 8 or so people, for around 2 months, with a range of 2 jumps around 30ly each, and not too difficult to repair.

I have a few flat pic's I played with, just to get a concept in a demonic style with the unusual colors, a devilish blue, yellow, and green robot, using the alternative color-scheme for the devil, based on cobalt, brimstone, and sulfer, instead of the oft-cleche' reused red. Can be difficult to get those colors to look properly wicked.
Evil Robot Devil - concept palette
I'm not rushing anything, I want to do it up with some respect for the source I'm plagiarizing, but not to just out-right copy the formula with nothing extra contributed. Considering how many people I could run the senario for that would recognize it if given even the slightest hint, I feel even more sure that it should all be cosmeticaly altered enough to avoid imediate recognition.
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 13, 2011 - 7:03pm

Here's an idea, what if for a real change, and re-imagining of the old story....we made Maximillian a female robot. Now that's a twist that doesnt violate anyones IP. It would also make an entirely new dimension on the evil scientists obsession with his robot. I also would take the story a step further and start with the idea that MA-X was a mission operations support bot that the evil Dr. reprogramed and corrupted to his own malicious purposes. Second only in evil to the Dr., MA-X's cold calculating view of the human life as a means to an end could take on an entirely new direction.

Or to make things even creepier we could make MA-X a cyborg inside the robot shell which would add an entirely new dimension of erie to the concept


AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 13, 2011 - 7:18pm
Here is a render with MA-X as a cyborg on the inside of a robotic shell. Maybe it's the evil scientists first officer, daughter, lover, or wife.


thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 13, 2011 - 9:09pm
M.A-X S.C.H.E.L/L (Mission Android Mk-10 / Suit Cybernetic-Human Extension 50/50)

Interesting, I was thinking about some play on the name, with the shell from S.c.h.e.l.l. that might work..Cool

I was looking at the middle palatte from my sample most, simply for the possible human form.

color scheme, cobalt, brimstone, and sulfer (blue,yellow,green)... too red needs a repainting, eyes are good... add some of the sharp angles as extensions, and slim it down like that when 'calm'..... yeah. I had something like that in mind but wasn't sure how to fit it.... that works! the missing element from my considering it, the Mr. Freeze conundrum!!!! I like it!Cool

must say, that render looks alot like the remake.... needs to avoid that too.... too many people would recognize it too quickly, mostly the iconic paint-job.... not trying to make the new remake as a module... trying to envision a SF take on the major story elements. Thats why I call my ship render a 'skeletal' in it's present state, needs a nice SF skin on it, still looks a little too much like the Cygnus itself to me, and not enough like the Anatidae.... check it with some of The New Tron: Beau Garrett influence... that might help..

Anyway your render? take that, rejection as a complement, being on the grounds that it looks too good!! seriously.Cool Can I get one of those in Vrusk?Innocent

Really if my purpose was motivated by micky-burgers, I would approve that, concept and all, for the film, and order a round of burgers for the whole team. As a fan-fic'd module for SF, that someone might give me a slice of pizza and a couch to crash on for doing... it's just not fitting for my taste to make it that true-to-form.
Don't want to go comparing burgers to pizzas, they are both greasy, and make you feel good for awhile.Innocent

Two examples to go on, but you got a good eye, and sense for direction.Cool
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
April 13, 2011 - 9:51pm
Cool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d47XMHZ0g4

Checking out the competition.....
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 13, 2011 - 10:26pm
Sorry, dont mean to offend anyone but I cant get into stupid humor for the sake of stupid humor. I think I sacrficed some brain cells on alter of stupidity to endure that.