 November 15, 2010 - 6:00am | (see digitial remastered Zebs page 22) Zebs characteristics for humma states: hermaphroditic, vivaporous reproduction It later explains: "Young humma are female. After they have borne a single child (all humma bear one child in their lifetime) they change into males. When humma approach 170 years of age they undergo another change into a neuter stage and remain neuter until death." The problem is, "How does the population grow?" If every humma only produces 1 humma then how did they get beyond the first Humma to populate a whole star system? Every humma that dies as a female would be a massive tragedy for the race as they would be a race in decline that would eventually die out "Last of the Mohicans" in SF. Unless someone can explain how a race where each member only produces 1 new member can grow beyond its starting number then I think we need to change this to be each female humma produces 1 litter (1d10 of off spring) I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
November 15, 2010 - 6:03am | just for the sake thoroughness I looked up the definitions of the big words vivaporous: –adjective 1. Zoology . bringing forth living young rather than eggs, as most mammals and some reptiles and fishes. 2. Botany . producing seeds that germinate on the plant. hermaphroditic: –noun 1. an individual in which reproductive organs of both sexes are present. Compare pseudohermaphrodite. 2. Biology . an organism, as an earthworm or plant, having normally both the male and female organs of generation. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 15, 2010 - 10:56am | Perhaps Humma were once normal kangeroos that were genetically modified by the ancients. Perhaps they were deposited on their world and to insure that they would not breed beyond a set limit (unlike the Sathar who had no breeding restrictions and eventually would turn on their masters) they imposed restrictions in how they reproduced, and implanted in them a false history of how they "evolved" naturally on their homeworld. That is if we go by the assumption that the ancients seeded the Frontier with life forms that they either "made" or transplanted from elsewhere, for some purpose that has yet to be uncovered. "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
 November 15, 2010 - 11:15am | Perhaps the original author was inspired by Chinese policy of one child per couple. Maybe the genetic mutation for only one offspring is a recent development due to general over population. As the population falls, the genetic switch will flip back to allow more Humma to have more then one. Or the Humma are very literal fans of Highlander - "There can be only one!" Obviously the Humma reproductive process was either not well thought out or poorly explained. Personnally, I would prefer the one litter concept as a correction to the Zeb's text. The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
November 15, 2010 - 12:00pm | Maybe it's a really big baby and no Humma in their right mind would wanna have another. Seriously however I agree with the one litter concept as well, though in the real world certain frogs are known to change sexes when their population becomes endangered, so maybe Humma who have already given birth but are still not in their neuter stage might revert to a child bearing stage and produce more offspring if their poulation density reaches a certain level, or maybe in these circumstances Humma females remain fertile after the first child allowing them to have more then one child until the population returns to normal levels. Though something in me screams that Georgie's last statement about how much thought went into creating the Humma is probably the truth. "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
November 15, 2010 - 12:37pm | After I posted this thread I took my daughter to school and then sat in my car for 45minutes brainstorming on this and I think I'm going to write an article called, "The Sociological Implications of Humma Reproduction" Got a bunch of ideas for that. I did some investigation into reproduction and the humma as written follow whats called K-selection (few off spring) the opposite is r-selection, with the theory being that each is a viable strategy. With salmon they follow r-selection producing many young then the parent dies and many of the young don't even reach adulthood but enough do to perpetuate the species. With K-selection the parent nutures and invests in the few young thereby ensuring that many more of them reach adulthood to perpetuate the species. I like the idea of multiple births and particularly using a d10 to determine the number. When a humma only gives birth to one child that child is viewed with "Golden Child" status and the adults around her/him expect great things from her/him. Conversely being the 10th child is considered unlucky and the humma equivelent of telling a "Yo momma" joke is to say that the humma in question is the 10th child of a 10th child. an interesting thing happened in the early days of contact between humma and humans: a humma was asking a human about his family and the human stated he was the youngest of 10 siblings. The humma felt sorry for him and said something like, "poor you". The human agreed thinking about all the hand me downs he'd be stuck wearing and how is older siblings had treated him. He was amazed how everywhere he went in humma society that they were so empathetic toward him when in reality they were mostly laughing at the sorry human. I also considered the genetic engineering angle by the ancients/Tetrachs/ etc. It would make for a mystery concerning their origin; and they would have been a species in decline as accident and disease culled the herd and killed a few here and there before they could reproduce. The intent of the ancients was for the humma to serve a specific purpose then die out. However the race adopted societal customs and strict laws concerning the protection of females and controlls on mating to ensure the perpetuation of the species which allowed the race to survive long enough to develope modern medicine that would allow males to revert to female gender by chemical means or would allow for extra eggs to be removed and fertilized then implanted in a receptive female thus ensuring multiple births to boost population losses. One of the biggest boones to Frontier technology was the research into the possibility of artificial wombs by the humma. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 15, 2010 - 1:42pm | I'm for this. This is the least altering to their biology as written. It also fits well with the attitudes and writing that humma are drawn to conflict. If you were born with 1d10 siblings you ..... You get what I'm hinting at. -iggy |
 November 15, 2010 - 2:11pm | I'm for this. This is the least altering to their biology as written. It also fits well with the attitudes and writing that humma are drawn to conflict. If you were born with 1d10 siblings you ..... You get what I'm hinting at. Hehe. I'm from a family with an above average roll on 1d10 for number of siblings and I know exactly what you mean  . My kids are also in the same situation and it hasn't lost any strength across the generations.
Ad Astra Per Ardua! My blog - Expanding Frontier Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine |
 November 15, 2010 - 2:16pm | I like that Jedion. But try this adjustment on for size: Instead of having just one child or one of the selections (though r-selection would still be a good adjustment to account for the 1 child concept), Humma only have one "clutch" or den (as of kittens), instead of one child. While this clutch or den would not be eggs, they would be twins or triplets, etc. (Cats usually have 2 to 3 sets of twins, triplets, or quadruplets.) Being war-like, they would possibly have a life like that of lizards, where the strong eat the weak, and what remains is the hardiest of them. This would fit with their ability to eat anything and their ability to survive in the harshest environments. As with lizards, not all the other siblings would be eaten by the oldest. Often there are two or three survivors who vie for power, and while there is only 1 dominant, the others would be strong enough to fend the strongest off, but not strong enough to take power in the group. Thus a very clear alpha would be defined in the group. Once having clutched, the alpha transforms and becomes an elder and a new alpha in the group takes their place and the elders become lazy and patriarchal. Now you tack on what you wrote above, about the favored one and the tenth one and you have a fleshed out Humma sociology. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
November 15, 2010 - 2:51pm | @ Ascent: I was just over in the Zebs expanded project starting a humma thread to try to spark some developmental discussion on them like what went on in the core 4 thread for dralasites and vrusk. I started this thread on humma society to spark debate and discussion: http://starfrontiers.us/node/4369 I wrote quite a bit but that was not to be authoritative I like ascents use of kittens as the term for young as the book's physical descriptions of humma describes them as a little cat like. I tried to present several different mating practices for the race evolving in ancient and traditional times as marriage practices here on earth are wide and varied over geographical areas and it seems more natural to have a few similar practices with slight differences that can be worked in as GMs and players like. I'd like to build on the recent article on the humma as I thought that was quite good and this is one of my favorite Rim races. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 15, 2010 - 3:41pm | Obviously, criminal charges like "statutory rape" and "sex with a minor" do not exist in Humma society...I bet raincoats sell like hot cakes on Humma worlds. "Hey little girl, do you want some candy?" Seriously though, that brings up another issue. If only the young are female and they remain male until the ripe old age of 170...over time there's a lot of males out there without females to mate with. Sooner or later it turns into a contest of popping them as they pop out... |
 November 15, 2010 - 5:54pm | I seem to remeber a thread on this sight about Humma. Somthing having to do with the word "one" bieng a curse. It was an explanation of how Outpost one got its name. Something having to do with the sather causing the Humma to only produce one offspring. Anyone remember that? Reasonable men adapt to the world around them; unreasonable men make the world adapt to them. The world is changed by unreasonable men. Edwin Louis Cole |
 November 15, 2010 - 6:58pm | Excerpt from Dr. Tarip Esner's* "The Curse of One - A Study into the Humma Culture-Linguistic Link" |
November 15, 2010 - 11:06pm | @ w00t: thanks for the link @ jacobsar: I know the cannon says the sathar have troubled the Rim a long time but original discription says that the humma indulged in frequent in fighting and civil war till the sathar came along and the finally united their planet with the purpose of destroying the worms. I'm not sure I by that description of the curse of one and the sathar having enslaved the humma previously. also the problem with the number 1 being a curse is that the book says that hummarin society is feudal with a king called Highest One and royalty (high ones) and so forth- this form of adress doesn't square well with One being a curse. @ shadow: absolutely there will be a lot of males around and the competition will have to ramp up I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
November 17, 2010 - 9:31pm | just an FYI got some good stuff going over in the Zebulon Guide Expanded project with several threads in the forums dedicated toward the humma come by and contribute: http://starfrontiers.us/forum/92 I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
November 17, 2010 - 10:03pm | Become a member, visit the home page; |
November 20, 2010 - 3:38pm | Another problem with the previous mentioned link is that the Sathar would have to have genetically altered every living female in the Humma population as the genetic factor would not be passed on through genetic distribution. Genetic distribution would produce a genetic anomoly that skips a generation as is so common in the world today. It would not become dominant unless it produces a genetically superior effect. Diminishing numbers is most definitely not a superior effect. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
November 20, 2010 - 8:01pm | @Ascent. I think it's been suggested that a virus could be engineerd to inject altered DNA into cells. It was done in Orson Scott Card's Xenocide.....which had some interesting concepts in it in spite of being kind of a crappy story. The virus would be made to reproduce and spread easily without actually harming the hosts. |
November 22, 2010 - 4:08pm | Kinda...(Award adamm an understatement of the year award. There are few stories I've seen worse than the second and third books in that series. Card should have left it alone with Ender's Game) Virus is conceivable, but so far as science has been able to determine (as far as I can remember), viruses that change a person's DNA don't perpetuate that DNA through heterosexual vivaparous reproduction, I believe due to RNA, JNA, and protien checks and balances. They would have to release many viruses that change different aspects of each Humma's body chemistry. Seems like a whole lot of trouble to wipe out a society with something they could do with a single virus in a few years time. They would also have to make those viruses fly under the radar of Humma knowledge of genetics. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
 December 1, 2010 - 9:23pm | Yet again we, argue over the poor editing in Zebulons Guide. How about this. Just keep the parts that make sense and then replace the parts that dont with something that does; instead of trying to justify poorly thought out and/or edited concepts. Often found in Zebs guide. No one has to agree with me, It's Just the Way I do things. If I dont like a game concept, as the GM/Referee I throw it out. Replace it with something I like. I try to avoid reaching or overthinking things. If it was true that they only produced 1 offspring each I would argue a case for them to be Pacifists instead of warlike. You can not fight Multiple wars losing population all the time and not have the ability to replace those losses. The Species would not survive. The bombing starts in five minutes. |
December 2, 2010 - 6:17pm | Actually, I think most people would be in agreement with you except for the few hard core Zeb's enthusiasts. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
December 2, 2010 - 6:50pm | Yet again we, argue over the poor editing in Zebulons Guide. How about this. Just keep the parts that make sense and then replace the parts that dont with something that does; instead of trying to justify poorly thought out and/or edited concepts. Often found in Zebs guide. No one has to agree with me, It's Just the Way I do things. If I dont like a game concept, as the GM/Referee I throw it out. Replace it with something I like. I try to avoid reaching or overthinking things. If it was true that they only produced 1 offspring each I would argue a case for them to be Pacifists instead of warlike. You can not fight Multiple wars losing population all the time and not have the ability to replace those losses. The Species would not survive. Very true in many points. I've been labouring under the assumption in my Zebulon's Guide to the Humma project that I needed to, as much as possible, harmonize most of the canon material with the least ammount of rewrite. I took this guideline on as I felt that if I did the least ammount of "damage" to the canon material it would ensure the widest field of acceptence- if my re-hab is largely still canon then no one can discount it as being "just one fan's take- nice but I dont know if I want to use it." by phone, I've been told to just go ahead and rewrite more than i was willing to rewrite in the guide to the humma that I'm working on. Actually, I think most people would be in agreement with you except for the few hard core Zeb's enthusiasts. are there any die hard zebs fans around? I'm only aware of 1 die hard Un-fan I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 December 3, 2010 - 12:14am | The only one I know of is Troy Terrell, an occasional poster on the .org forums. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
December 5, 2010 - 8:06pm | Update: Zebulon's Guide to the Humma The ZG to the humma project is in full swing there are now 10 pages typed up in the document section of the Zebs Guide Expanded project ready for review with the caveat that there are still some small holes (History page is currently only place holder text and the mechanics of the spring charge have been left blank while that gets debated in the rules forum) stop by check out the progress make suggestions http://www.starfrontiers.us/node/1718 I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 6, 2010 - 2:14pm | Ya know...a lucrative person in the Rim would realize the male to female population difference (re: due to age there will be far more males than females and the picking will be few and far between), hire a few female hummas, have them spayed, and open a house of ill repute. Yep. You could make enough money to buy a spacefleet large enough to defeat the sathar for good with that one! |
December 6, 2010 - 2:21pm | Ya know...a lucrative person in the Rim would realize the male to female population difference (re: due to age there will be far more males than females and the picking will be few and far between), hire a few female hummas, have them spayed, and open a house of ill repute. Yep. You could make enough money to buy a spacefleet large enough to defeat the sathar for good with that one! except that iggy had some seriously good stuff to say about humma reproduction in the project forums and I whole sale copied his post into the docs - it precludes recreational sex for the humma. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
December 6, 2010 - 2:32pm | Well this assumes canon. Along with the very real possibility of inter-racial encounters  Ifshnits must supply their own step-stools. |
December 6, 2010 - 5:06pm | Dude. There's a point at which "inter-racial" becomes "bestiality" and I think you just found it. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
December 6, 2010 - 10:13pm | I agree with Corey. Ewwwwwwww. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
December 7, 2010 - 4:17am | Just covering all the bases. There are fetishes & perverts in the future too, ya know.  And y'all know the difference between the two, right? A person with a fetish will tickle his mate with a feather, the pervert uses the whole chicken. |
December 7, 2010 - 6:39pm |  Alright, alright. I think we're offending Larry, now. I mean the way he understands it, a pleasurebot is just as perverse.  Humans and robots!??? Oh my. It's sacrilege in his w00ty eyes.Okay, time to get back on topic: Humma Reproduction Uh...what were we saying? View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
