 April 4, 2010 - 1:25pm | Has anyone come up with some good rules that would simulate the fighters diving in on star destroyers as in Star Wars? The way I see it there are a few things to adress: 1. Minumum size of ship for this sort of action; should it be based off of Hull size or MR or ADF? 2. must keep it simple so how do we incorporate this into the game without bogging it. 3. Might as well adress dogfighting as well since one defense against fighters doing this is other fighters intercepting. 4. what is the advantage of do this? I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 December 4, 2010 - 4:20am | The same applied to toilet paper. Not really sure which one I would want to miss out on... |
 December 4, 2010 - 12:03pm | The same applied to toilet paper. Not really sure which one I would want to miss out on... But, but, comrade, you can always use pages from the G.U.M. catalog. They are made of the finest-quality Siberian paper..... " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
December 4, 2010 - 12:06pm | In Soviet Russia SEU is free of charge... While in America, SEU ain't never free. Some brave boys somewhere died so yew kin have all the SEU yew want...subject to usage fees, local, county, state and federal taxes, power line access fees, other utility transmission fees, and so on.... But, yew git my drift, dontcha, son?  " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
December 4, 2010 - 3:12pm | ...you forgot cap & tax (whoops, I meant cap and trade). |
December 4, 2010 - 3:20pm | Yes, I did, didn't I? " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
 December 5, 2010 - 12:14pm | But even in SF SEUs are not free, not every one has their own fusion reactor and even then you still need to buy the uranium fuel for it. Sure you can set up solar cells and power your home with a series of parabatteries, but you can also sell the extra SEUs to others. I think it was in Zebulon's Guide that tried to rationalized the idea of SF credit on the SEU standard. It all goes back to the fact that there is no such thing as a free good. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
December 5, 2010 - 3:10pm | But even in SF SEUs are not free, not every one has their own fusion reactor and even then you still need to buy the uranium fuel for it. For 10000Cr, an unskilled laborer (20Cr/day) can secure a loan with a personal guarantee ("signed/sworn statement for loans of 10K or less", p41 of KH campaign manual) for ten years with a 400Cr monthly payment. Not exactly a great loan even by today's standards --- a five year 10K loan today can be had for no more than $200/month, but it's certainly easy enough for anyone to get the 10K and buy a Type I generator (Solar, geothermal, etc) to start making "money" at the rate of 500SEU per hour. It's just that simple. And unlike buying a printing press and counterfeit plates, it's perfectly legal too. Anyone can do it at the drop of a hat, as such it devalues the SEU as a monetary standard at a rate that's worse than our U.S. government's executive decision ordering up the printing of more money...in other words by SEU standards anyone can order the printing of more money. |
 December 5, 2010 - 4:13pm | I think it was in Zebulon's Guide that tried to rationalized the idea of SF credit on the SEU standard. If so that pretty much kills the validity of this debate. Can anyone find the source for where SEUs are tied to the value of the Credit? -iggy |
 December 5, 2010 - 8:41pm | It's not in zebs guide as far As I can tell; been reading through it. I am thinking it is some kind of magazine article..... I dont see why anyone in thier right mind would tie money to a unit of potential electrical energy. Once the energy is used then it has lost its value. Gold or silver and other metals on the other hand still have value after most uses. Most of the economics of Earth were tied to precious metals for most of written history for this simple reason. if you used it it still has value. Try that with a dead battery. Electricity is a 1 use commodity not something that can be traded. You lose some electricity in its trasportation due to line resistance, so it would be a bad modicum of trade to begin with. You dont have to agree, I am just sayin... it dont make a lick-o-sense or cents for that matter. The bombing starts in five minutes. |
December 6, 2010 - 3:16am | If so that pretty much kills the validity of this debate. You don't know how badly I wanted to say that. I just got too caught up in the reasoning end of it all LOL Can anyone find the source for where SEUs are tied to the value of the Credit? I'd read something about it too, although I recall reading was something to the effect of suggestions for non-UPF worlds with alternate economies that could be based on SEU instead of precious metals. |
 December 6, 2010 - 5:03pm | But even in SF SEUs are not free, not every one has their own fusion reactor and even then you still need to buy the uranium fuel for it. For 10000Cr, an unskilled laborer (20Cr/day) can secure a loan with a personal guarantee ("signed/sworn statement for loans of 10K or less", p41 of KH campaign manual) for ten years with a 400Cr monthly payment. Not exactly a great loan even by today's standards --- a five year 10K loan today can be had for no more than $200/month, but it's certainly easy enough for anyone to get the 10K and buy a Type I generator (Solar, geothermal, etc) to start making "money" at the rate of 500SEU per hour. It's just that simple. And unlike buying a printing press and counterfeit plates, it's perfectly legal too. Anyone can do it at the drop of a hat, as such it devalues the SEU as a monetary standard at a rate that's worse than our U.S. government's executive decision ordering up the printing of more money...in other words by SEU standards anyone can order the printing of more money. You forget that the loan rates have a significant impact on the economy. Thus the difference in loan rates may be regulated and contribute to the stability of the Frontier economy. But then, when you actually look at it, it was capping the loan rates and resource costs (like oil resale) and regulating the stock market during the Clinton administration that kept the economy healthy and gave us a surplus. When all that was removed . . . well, I won't go into the economic politics of what we're currently experiencing. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
December 7, 2010 - 3:24am | Right, but I was merely illustrating --- if the Frontier credit were based on the SEU standard --- how easy it would be by canon rules for anyone to "print currency". No executive decision needed (re: "print some more money so we can pay our debts"...no civilian can order that one), get your loan for a generator and start pumping out currency in your own back yard. P.S. still trying to hunt that bit down about SEUs as an economic standard... |
December 7, 2010 - 3:11pm | Okay, I found it. Page 63 of Zeb's, "Ammunition & Energy": "In the early years of the Frontier, 1 SEU was the original standard medium of exchange, equal to about 5 Cr." It goes on to say that the Frontier has progressed beyond that but there may be some primitive settlements that deal in SEU currency. Now here's where that falls apart. Remember my scenario where the unskilled worker secures a loan for the $10K generator? At 500 SEU per hour, that's 10,000 SEU per twenty hour day or 50,000 Cr per day. To put that into full perspective, that generator requires 100Cr/day worth of maintennace costs, so the owner is now making 49,900 Cr/day free and clear. Enough to pay off his loan in one day, and leaving almost enough to buy four more generators. After just one day. In one year (400 twenty hour days GST) that racks up to 19,960,000 credits from one single simple generator. I don't need to get into the effects on this "economy" when the owner of that single simple type 1 generator decides to buy more complex generators with his profits (re: multiple type 4 generator that produces 4000 SEU/hour). Simply put, a basic generator would have given anyone the means to become a "power broker" within a month. And if everyone is a "power broker", how does one put a price on anything? I submit to you this: what need is there for adventure when anyone can make 50K per day with the most basic generator? Who would risk their lives travelling to unkown stars for less than a hundred credits per day (re: wages for low level characters, as in beginning characters with two LVL:1 skills) when you can sit at home in your underwear and do absolutely nothing while "earning" 50K per day? Wouldn't it be more exciting to use that simple generator and wait a year so you have enough to buy a decent sized warship along with a compliment of fighter craft (kinda drifting back to topic with that LOL) and then use the generator to pay a crew salary for some real excitement? Actually you wouldn't even need the generator anymore, your atomic drives can recharge scores of parabatteries in a matter of minutes (IIRC that was detailed in the Dramune Run module) and produce gobs more worth of SEU to bring along with you. That's the perspective...an unskilled worker can virtually become captain of a warship in a year with the SEU as currency. Frankly I don't see how things could be priced so low in the SF universe under such a system with the possibility of anyone and everyone becoming multi-millionaire power brokers so easily. Never mind the politics or systems of early days, what bank wouldn't finance a loan that can get paid back the next day? "No problem, Mr. Smith. Just sign the bottom line, here's your 2000 SEU to purchase a generator. When you make your 9980 SEU (adjusted for 20 SEU worth of maintenance costs per day) tomorrow you can pay us back." No printing press is that efficient. Our current (or any other) administration could never print money fast enough to equal that scenario of flooding the market with currency. |
December 7, 2010 - 4:11pm | Young kid poking around a space station with a ticket to a new colony and his life savings of 15kCr to make it big in the frontier. After getting off the com-link with his girl telling her about how he'll send for her when he's established himself an Ifshnit walks up. “He kid! Wanna make it big and send for your girl before some slick guy steals her away?” says, the well braided business fellow. “I happen to have a cousin in the SEU generation business where your going. He can set you up good! The colony your headed to is still operating on the old SEU credit standard. You take a type I generator with you and start selling SEU to the poor farmers out there and you'll be dancing with your girl by the end of the month. In a year you'll be married and in a penthouse on Prenglar. You got 10kCr? I got a type I generator all crated up in docking bay four. You help me load it on that tramp freighter your booked on and it's yours. I'd take it there myself but guild law say's I can't compete with my cousin.” says the polished Ifshnit as he leads the glassy eyed human youth by the hand down to docking bay four. Two hours later Sahdfet is back on his cousin's freighter washing dishes, 10kCr richer, headed to Capella, and our young lover is getting his picture taken for posterity whilst his type I generator is being returned to a Yazirian captain. -iggy |
December 7, 2010 - 4:26pm | David Gerrold's War Against the Chtorr series used the kilocalorie("casey")as the basis for that world's monetary system. " 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death." |
