 September 5, 2009 - 5:59am | Seriously is there really any point to disallowing the recharge of 20 SEU clips? In the day and age we live in it really is starting to seem silly. Frankly I can't see any Frontier military wanting to spend money on them, "Look, soldier, you're gonna carry that power back pack any your gonna like it!" just equipping all their security/ troops with belt and backpacks is likely to save tons of money over time. I'm leaning toward plugging them in at the local recharge station and roll %dice a result of 5% or less and the energy cell has lost integrity and the recharge station wont recharge it-go buy another. could even have clips from some place with poor quality control causing a 10% or 15% of cell corruption hey there 10% off the standard price. (or maybe a military contractor slipped in some shoddy material to maximize proffit). players could even pay double the cost for an SEU clip with a 3% chance. just my random thoughts on the subject. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 September 5, 2009 - 6:17am | Stupid rule. Even 20+ years ago we would recharge them. The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
 September 5, 2009 - 8:18am | I couldn't agree more, especially with the state of the art in rechargable tech nowadays. Just be sure to do a deep discharge, or the clip will hold less and less of a charge til it's completely dead. Nice avatar, Georgie. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 September 5, 2009 - 8:23am | I always thought it was to help keep the pc's on track and make them think a bit. Everytime a group finds an engineering section, they would spend time trying to locate a charger and gum up the adventure recharging all the spent clips. I had a house rule where SEU clips could be recharged in about 10 minutes with proper facilities. Cost about half at the shop. Most shops would have a trade-in/used e-clip section so you wouldnt actually have to sit there and wait for your recharge; hand over the empties and your cash then get back recharged e-clips. Jedion, I like your thoughts on the cell integrity. Gonna have to use that. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
 September 5, 2009 - 10:25am | There was a discussion here or on the FS site about recharging... I'm in favor of no recharges. Here are some random thoughts. Keeps the story intense. PC's don't waste ammo. When you want to strand them on an off the beat world you don't have to worry about them having to high tech for the local fauna/flora. I'm leaning toward plugging them in at the local recharge station and
roll %dice a result of 5% or less and the energy cell has lost
integrity and the recharge station wont recharge it-go buy another. 5% First time recharge 20% Second 50% Third and holds only 1/2 max capacity 60% Fourth and PC is not sure the charge was successful unless he test fires. :-) |
September 5, 2009 - 4:32pm | 5% First time recharge 20% Second 50% Third and holds only 1/2 max capacity 60% Fourth and PC is not sure the charge was successful unless he test fires. This sounds about right for recharge rules, add: Fifth time: Fails to hold charge. Keeps the story intense. In any sort of intense combat, the PCs may not have time to collect their empties, or, after the battle's over, may not remember to pick up their empties. On the other hand, post-combat or any similar opportunity will give the PCs a chance to loot the dead for power clips; making them rechargeable and implementing recharge rules adds a little bit of uncertaintly to their situation. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
September 5, 2009 - 6:31pm | Will, your post made me think of something. Can a PC pick up used packs and "combine" them to make a full pack? hrm.... Todaria finishes off the last of Georgie's mooks and thinks to herself, "Now for the big guy himself. Gonna need more ammo I bet." She searches the boides and finds 3 power packs, the power indicators show one has 10 SEU while the other two have 5 SEU. Taking a moment she depletes the 5 SEU clips into the 10 SEU clip, fully charging it. "Now Georgie... your gonna get yours!" :-) |
September 5, 2009 - 6:35pm | Hmm, I don't see why not...the recharging device would have to be combination recharger/discharger, with the two 5 SEU clips hooked up to the discharger, which would then store the 10 SEU in a capacitor, while the 10 SEU clip would be hooked up to the recharging end, and the capacitor releases its stored energy into it. Uninterruptible power sources use similar technology now. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
September 5, 2009 - 6:55pm | Will, your post made me think of something. Can a PC pick up used packs and "combine" them to make a full pack? I had players ask this one and had to rule "No." At least not under field conditions and not without the proper transfer tools. They were able to perform this once all hostiles were eliminated and they had a bit of breathing/admin time. I tend to make power pack/clip backfeeds very nasty. Every 10 SEU is equal to a frag grenade. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
September 5, 2009 - 8:44pm | I would tend to say no on transfering SEUs from 1 clip to another or use a little GM fiat and have Gorko walkin on Torida while she was fooling around at a recharge station without a clip in the gun. Personally I feel if the PCs messed around wasting too much time to get set by restocking power supplies then the opposition would have tuned up their position too. extra robot on hand or more goons or something. I would not want to keep track of how many times a clip has been recharged (too much record keeping KISS rule) and just let the dice add a set ammount of uncertainty to the situation. if the PCs worked up a tinkered recharge station in a tight spot then I'd rule using it increased the chance of clip failure at that time call it 25% I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
September 5, 2009 - 8:55pm | I would tend to say no on transfering SEUs from 1 clip to another or use a little GM fiat and have Gorko walkin on Torida while she was fooling around at a recharge station without a clip in the gun. This assumes, of course, that Torida isn't packing a second, fully-charged weapon.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
September 5, 2009 - 8:55pm | I would tend to say no on transfering SEUs from 1 clip to another or use a little GM fiat and have Gorko walkin on Torida while she was fooling around at a recharge station without a clip in the gun. This assumes, of course, that Torida isn't packing a second, fully-charged weapon.... "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 September 6, 2009 - 4:22am | I've never had a problem with recharging powerclips. The cost alone justifies it...100Cr for something disposable while gyrojet and bullet clips cost a fraction of that? |
 September 6, 2009 - 9:30am | I always allow recharging. On a ship or the characters have to invest in a parabattery or a generator to be able to recharge clips, belts or backpacks. I let them just plug it into the wall at most civilized places. If they are staying in a space station or hotel or something. I think I might add in something about a clips having % chance of failing to recharge or someting. incidetally, I made the weight of a Power Backpack 7 Kg instead of 10. It just didn't make sense to me to have two belt packs (4 Kg each) still weigh less than a power backpack. Whay not just carry two Belt packs? I know it is nit picking but it did come up in a game. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
September 7, 2009 - 7:03pm | Will, your post made me think of something. Can a PC pick up used packs and "combine" them to make a full pack? hrm.... Todaria finishes off the last of Georgie's mooks and thinks to herself, "Now for the big guy himself. Gonna need more ammo I bet." She searches the boides and finds 3 power packs, the power indicators show one has 10 SEU while the other two have 5 SEU. Taking a moment she depletes the 5 SEU clips into the 10 SEU clip, fully charging it. "Now Georgie... your gonna get yours!" :-) Wait, what? Where'd I get those lousy mooks from anyway, a discount mook contract outfit? I think I need to beef up the ol' robotics skills and build my own. BTW, anyone know when the next starship leaves?  Regarding recharging - playing in the old days, recharging was a long process, several hours per clip. You plug them in, go to sleep, in the morning they're charged. No big deal, provided you had a generator/power outlet. We simply assumed that if you finished the battle in control of the battle field, you recovered your spent clips. That went for all types of ammo clips. If the battle ranged over a large area, then circumstances dictated how many clips you may have recovered. The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
September 7, 2009 - 7:09pm | Nice avatar, Georgie. This old thing? It was just laying around in the avatar archive collecting dust. I picked it up after failing to upload one. I like it, kinda looks like the Halo dude. The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
 September 15, 2009 - 9:49am | I would not combine clips. Recharging is cool, but the facility/equipment for doing so should not be portable, free, or common. That way most wilderness campaigns are (pardon the pun) one shot deals for the PCs, unless you allow them to draw some juice from the batteries of their vehicles. Of course, that is not always feasible as in that case you are trading ammo for vehicle range... |
 November 13, 2009 - 8:18pm | I don't have soldiers using lasers, too expensive for the common foot soldier to carry around and possibly break in close combat. But as for clips, do you expect a soldier to go around and collect every clip he's tossed out after use? I mean they train soldiers to just drop empty clips and feed in a fresh one, don't bother fumbleing around with an empty one. Wasting time could waste your life after all. And when depending on a power pack, well if the pack runs dry in a combat situation. If you're fumbleing with that pack unplugging your rifle from it then you're not watching the battlefield for the enemy, you're a walking deadman. Clips for efficiency! In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
November 13, 2009 - 10:20pm | I don't have soldiers using lasers, too expensive for the common foot soldier to carry around and possibly break in close combat. But as for clips, do you expect a soldier to go around and collect every clip he's tossed out after use? I mean they train soldiers to just drop empty clips and feed in a fresh one, don't bother fumbleing around with an empty one. Wasting time could waste your life after all. And when depending on a power pack, well if the pack runs dry in a combat situation. If you're fumbleing with that pack unplugging your rifle from it then you're not watching the battlefield for the enemy, you're a walking deadman. Clips for efficiency! Too True but the question is motivated from a RPG stand point and most players wont drop equipment cause it cost them something. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 November 14, 2009 - 5:10pm | You've never been in the United States Marine Corps. Lose a magazine for your rifle and you just bought it. They take the cost right out of your pay. Besides...that's what those cargo pockets on your utility trousers (the ones you are not permitted to put anything in, in garrison) are for...empty rifle magazines. |
November 16, 2009 - 9:05pm | Well, no never served in the Marines. But I've never had players use anything but clips in their weapons, it was quicker for them to swap clips out rather than mess with power packs. And frankly sometimes they were just forced to swallow the cost of the clip while doing their buisness with it. Maybe they tried to salvage some afterwards. But they usually kept the power packs reserved for equipment and screens, something that needs to run for a longer period of time. So often they have a box of a load of extra clips in a vehicle, all the while carrying something like 10 clips on their person. Basically they looked at the clips like disposable batteries, the only reason they'd pick any up was to hide their trail. Which is a good idea when the time allows for it. Or at the very least they'd leave some behind some where giving the idea they went in another direction. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
 November 20, 2009 - 10:12am | In my games the PC's always picked up clips. to save on cash. We even had catcher pouches too on the side of Slug throwers to leave no traces of activity. And during combat I would occasionally throw out a make a roll to see if you drop anything in the heat of battle. Gold is for the mistress-silver for the maid-copper for the craftsman cunning at his trade.But Iron-Cold Iron- is master of them all |
November 20, 2009 - 1:21pm | Hey ArtMic, good idea about the casing catcher...........My wifes characters uses dual autopistols. So after spraying the area for five or six rounds the floor is littered with shell casings. I would sometimes roll to see if anyone would slip on them. At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
 December 6, 2009 - 5:34pm | In our game we have 2 types of Power clips one that wasn't rehargable for half price and regular clips that were rehargable by someone with a Technological skill and the proper equipment. also our slugthrowers were caseless so we didn't have to worrie about shells. |
December 9, 2009 - 9:12pm | I would think for a slugthrower to seem futuristic caseless would be the norm. But Mallak just gave me the same idea with slugs, make the old shell styles cheaper. With the tools you can reload spent cartridges, but seeing as most will use automatic weapons do you want to spend the time reloading all that ammo? Unless a character is useing a revolver of some kind it's pointless to want to reload. So most go with caseless. In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same. |
December 15, 2009 - 5:59pm | Good idea Sarg. Caseless or even binary propellant rounds could be used in the future.... I prefer Gauss rifles myself. Explosive rounds are so yesterday  At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy...... |
May 30, 2010 - 1:38pm | Will, your post made me think of something. Can a PC pick up used packs and "combine" them to make a full pack? hrm.... Todaria finishes off the last of Georgie's mooks and thinks to herself, "Now for the big guy himself. Gonna need more ammo I bet." She searches the boides and finds 3 power packs, the power indicators show one has 10 SEU while the other two have 5 SEU. Taking a moment she depletes the 5 SEU clips into the 10 SEU clip, fully charging it. "Now Georgie... your gonna get yours!" :-) Physical impossabilty, (so is my spelling) Electricity is not liquid. It takes a car alternator putting out 13 to 15 volts to keep a 12 volt car battery charged. This is because you have force more electrons to move into the cell than the cell has potential for. It is more complex than that but that is the easiest explanation I can give without giving a disertation on Electrical physics. The charger for you cell phone, your cordless drill and electric tooth brush all work in a similer way. The bombing starts in five minutes. |
May 30, 2010 - 3:21pm | I agree with the alternator, but it gives me a different take on it. I let people swap power from one device to another at a 10% loss (round up) of the power they are emptying. It simplifies record keeping but still lets the character drop "dead weight". There is a penalty so characters won't be doing it just to do it. The sticker is I would let a character do it in the field as long as they have cables for it. Jump the battery so to speak. |
May 30, 2010 - 6:16pm | I agree with the alternator, but it gives me a different take on it. I let people swap power from one device to another at a 10% loss (round up) of the power they are emptying. It simplifies record keeping but still lets the character drop "dead weight". There is a penalty so characters won't be doing it just to do it. The sticker is I would let a character do it in the field as long as they have cables for it. Jump the battery so to speak. It dont matter if either battery is on top. Ok what happens there is called equalization and you can burn a battery out doing it. but you take that 9 volt, and attaching to the dead nine volt for long enough they will both have around 4.4 to 7 volts... not what we are trying to do take 5 SEU and pour it into the 10 SEU, what you would end up with is both having around 7.5 SEU in each one. the best way to get that extra power from the a battery is to wire them parrallel to each other. ie both posatives to each other and both negatives to each other; then wire them up into whatever device you are using. It will be a net gain on Amperage but the electromotive force, voltage will be sort of averaged out. and you would be discharging both together. You may get As little as 12.5 SEU or and Much as 15. What adventurer has time for that. Throw it away or recharge it conventionaly, but you cant "pour" electricity from one battery to another. Because the one with the larger charge will force into the one with the lesser charge. WHY? Because electrons are always seeking to get back to an atom that is posative Electricity always seeks the easiest path to ground, and if it cant go to ground it will go to equilibrium instead. The bombing starts in five minutes. |
May 31, 2010 - 7:35am | I'm with dmoffett on this one, even without the physics. As a ref, I rarely did things to make it easy on the players. Make it a challenge. Make them decide if they want to pack the extra weight of that power backpack with only 12 SEU left in it or chance an encounter with only their own power backpack with 35 SEU and a pair of powerclips. The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of
the strong. * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi |
May 31, 2010 - 2:49pm | Before our electrical Engineer looks At my previous Post, I know my math is off and I realised I was comfused about voltage when wiring to batteries together. I work on heavy trucks as a mechanic for a living I have not mastered the Multiple battery wiring, I just follow the diagram the engineers made. But i know the idea of pouring juice from one to another will not work. In the afforemention situation where you have 5 SEU in one and 10 in the other simply use one drop magazine replace with the other. or Stop go back and recharge both with a generator. Since SEU stands for Stadard Electrical unit, I have to assume that vehicles and spaceships and portable genorators would have outlets to plug in some sort of Standard charging equipment. Otherwise no point in making a SEU clip. I would venture to say that the book lists throw away SEU Clips like Alkaline Batteries. Use it throw it away. OR you buy Rechargeable SEU batteries Lithium Ion or some other future tech. These would cost more. OR considering its Space opera how about a hand held generator, Solar or nuclear or whatever. Maybe it has not been invented yet, and The PCs run into some Scientists/engineer guy who is working on it and needs them to go to retrieve his PC/notebook from another planet he crash landed at on his way to the UPF inventors convention. lol The bombing starts in five minutes. |
