 May 15, 2009 - 6:13pm | I'm sure this has been brought up already, but just in case, has anyone found that the Vrusk, Dralasites, and Yazirians (as well as all the alien PC races from Alternity) are in D20 Future? I'm not sure I like that. Regardless of who owns what rights to what property, I still feel as though a big part of Star Frontiers has been compromised. Tim Schuster
Tubist, Walla Walla Valley Band |
 May 15, 2009 - 6:21pm | I can understand how ya feel. But I started looking at it as someone keeping a small part of SF alive and in peoples minds. I think the person that did the D20 conversion even stated that. I dont recall what forum he was on anymore.. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
 May 15, 2009 - 11:58pm | I've always been adamantly opposed to efforts to convert SF as a whole to another system, be it Alternity, D20 Future, whatever. However, I feel there is one benefit to having SF alien races in D20 Future (as well as the Alternity versions that appeared in Dragon Magazine), and that is the fact that benchmarks are thus created for those of us who want to steal stuff from those two games to use in our SF games. Now that I know how Vrusks and Yazirians, etc stat up in D20 Future, it's easier for me to begin statting up things from D20F in SF game mechanics. The similarities between D20F and WotC's star wars d20 and Star Wars SAGA games also expand options provided by this. Either way, D20 Future, and the entire D20 Modern line, is pretty much dead. Word is, Lucasfilm insisted that WotC produce no Sci Fi games that might compete with SW rpg when they granted the license, but whether that is true is kind of moot. WotC hasn't done much of anything with D20 Modern in nearly 5 years. It's dead, and didn't get the time to gather the loyal following that SF and even Alternity have. I don't think we need to fear a D20F raping of the SF legacy.  ~ Rich berentiu@gmail.com |
May 16, 2009 - 3:09pm | I'm always glad to hear something bad about D20. It's been a scourge on the map of role playing games. Tim Schuster
Tubist, Walla Walla Valley Band |
 May 16, 2009 - 4:16pm | I can understand how ya feel. But I started looking at it as someone keeping a small part of SF alive and in peoples minds. I think the person that did the D20 conversion even stated that. I dont recall what forum he was on anymore.. wizroc, from the starfrontiers.org frums. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 17, 2009 - 8:34am | Yes, the SF races and Star Law were covered, lightly, in d20 Future. I, for one, see it as a good thing; it has kept some small part of SF alive. Now, personally, I don't see a problem with d20. I don't understand all the hate. SF was two things; a game system for use with any sci-fi games, and a space opera setting. The two are not necessarily so tied together that they cannot be independent. In other words, one could use the SF rules and create their own setting completely, ignoring the races, the UPF and Star Law entirely. Similarly, one could use the setting details and adapt it to any rules set available - Traveller, d20, d6, hell even D&D 1st edition! Its all in how you play the game, and how much work the GM does or doesn't want to do. The SF game mechanic is simple and sweet, but limited. d20 is more complex, but allows more variety, I feel. Personal tastes vary... Long live the Frontier! |
May 17, 2009 - 8:37am | Oh, and while the d20 Modern line is dead (especially now that 4E D&D is out), I wouldn't doubt that a new version/game is on the horizon. TSR/WotC has tried repeatedly to create non-D&D game systems, and will continue to do so. The rumour also is that they are about to end their Star Wars line (which could mean within the next 6 - 18 months), and that could open up new avenues. Time will tell. Long live the Frontier! |
 May 17, 2009 - 11:17am | Oh, and while the d20 Modern line is dead (especially now that 4E D&D is out), I wouldn't doubt that a new version/game is on the horizon. TSR/WotC has tried repeatedly to create non-D&D game systems, and will continue to do so. The rumour also is that they are about to end their Star Wars line (which could mean within the next 6 - 18 months), and that could open up new avenues. Time will tell. One wonders if they lost on the license more than the value of what was sold for the STar wars game like Games workshop is rumored to have lost on the Middle Earth license causing it to raise prices across the board on everything to recover the loss at the same time as they abandoned the ME game. Pitty that Tolkien Enterprises forced them to manufacture the minis in an odd and incompatible scale. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
May 17, 2009 - 11:34am | Oh, and while the d20 Modern line is dead (especially now that 4E D&D is out), I wouldn't doubt that a new version/game is on the horizon. TSR/WotC has tried repeatedly to create non-D&D game systems, and will continue to do so. The rumour also is that they are about to end their Star Wars line (which could mean within the next 6 - 18 months), and that could open up new avenues. Time will tell. One wonders if they lost on the license more than the value of what was sold for the STar wars game like Games workshop is rumored to have lost on the Middle Earth license causing it to raise prices across the board on everything to recover the loss at the same time as they abandoned the ME game. Pitty that Tolkien Enterprises forced them to manufacture the minis in an odd and incompatible scale. Knowing Whizzards and how Lucas(s) does business anymore, the answer is almost certainly yes, Whizzards and Hasbro got burned bad on the deal. As for the source of the d20 hate...speaking for me, I just think it's a clunky system overall, nothing at all like the basic D&D engine from which it was derived. Moreover, it requires a veritable library of books(and the concurrent expense)to be able to play the game. Finally, the classes require some major tweaks to work(IMO), same with the starship rules. A cleaner version of the d20 system, I think, is Green Ronin's True 20 RPG, at least before they released the Companion and the Handbooks...not that you need either to play the game, the core rules are more than sufficent, while the three roles presented are quite flexible in their application. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 17, 2009 - 12:24pm | Oh, and while the d20 Modern line is dead (especially now that 4E D&D is out), I wouldn't doubt that a new version/game is on the horizon. TSR/WotC has tried repeatedly to create non-D&D game systems, and will continue to do so. The rumour also is that they are about to end their Star Wars line (which could mean within the next 6 - 18 months), and that could open up new avenues. Time will tell. That is a false rumor that sour grapes RCR fanatics cooked up. The game is alive and well.What is more likely is that they have come to the end of the line as far as major core setting books are concerned, (there's only so much you can produce) but will continue to promote and sell books and produce new supplements. There is no indicator otherwise. The game is more insanely popular than it has ever been since the production of Saga. They aren't bringing an end to it anytime soon.View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
May 17, 2009 - 12:32pm | Which beggars the question: Will Whizzards incorporate SAGA mechanics in the next incarnation of d20 Modern, or no? "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 17, 2009 - 1:48pm | Rest assured, anything that Jizzards does will be crushed by Lucas if it is even close to competing with his Star Wars game. |
May 17, 2009 - 4:14pm | You do realize that visions of AT-ATs tromping through the Seattle area were inspired by that last post, don't you, ImpLord? "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 18, 2009 - 12:24am | Moreover, it requires a veritable library of books(and the concurrent expense)to be able to play the game.  Long live the Frontier! |
May 18, 2009 - 1:12am | Oh, GR came up with a very elegant system. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
 May 18, 2009 - 6:18am | True20 is essentially "drop the stats and keep the stat modifiers"... Ok a little more than that. Keep an eye out; odds are they will allow it for free DL via DTRPG on free RPG day. That's how I got my ebook of it. I've not run it, just read it. Its streamlined, but not, to me, elegant. I do recall that, when WotC first got SW, they were restricted to not using the same mechanics in any other games... WotC construed that pretty narrowly, to mean not using HP/Stamina and the rising defense bonuses. It wasn't quite compatible with D&D... nor the D20 SRD... I don't have SW Saga... |
 May 18, 2009 - 7:05am | I was impressed with True 20. If I wasn't trying to do something with SF I would probably use it or Savage Worlds as my system of choice. In my opinion SF has the best land (planet?) vehicle rules that I have seen in a long time. Savage Worlds vehicle rules are not too bad. True 20 vehicle rules are somewhat abstract, but playable. Most RPGs seem to breakdown when it comes to vehicle rules - either too abstract or too complicated for me. SF reached a nice balance. |
May 18, 2009 - 7:11am | I was impressed with True 20. If I wasn't trying to do something with SF I would probably use it or Savage Worlds as my system of choice. In my opinion SF has the best land (planet?) vehicle rules that I have seen in a long time. Savage Worlds vehicle rules are not too bad. True 20 vehicle rules are somewhat abstract, but playable. Most RPGs seem to breakdown when it comes to vehicle rules - either too abstract or too complicated for me. SF reached a nice balance. EDIT: d20 Modern, in fact most WOTC d20 games required too much DM preparation and effort to run. This led to DM Burnout and caused the group I played with to breakup. Everyone wanted to play, but no one wanted to DM. This is probably the most common "minus" to the whole d20 system. A lot of DMs just quit because it required too much of them to run a good game. |
May 18, 2009 - 3:16pm | Amen, brother Pineapple, amen. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 18, 2009 - 3:17pm | Tho, the core rulebook DOES come in handy for hitting recalcitrant rules lawyers upside their pointed little heads. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 25, 2009 - 8:57am | Now, personally, I don't see a problem with d20. I don't understand all the hate. It's not hate. It has just seemed to me over the past few years that the D20 system has flooded all the (way too few) game stores, and the original-system games were being overrun, like weeds filling a garden. Does that image make how I feel clear? Your post, Gargoyle, was full of excellent points... I just wanted to respond to that sentence in particular so you could see where I'm coming from. P.S. Thanks, Will, for the fix to my quote problem! Tim Schuster
Tubist, Walla Walla Valley Band |
May 19, 2009 - 2:58pm | Add a [/quote] to the end of the quoted text, Tim. That should fix it. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
May 24, 2009 - 5:03pm | Which beggars the question: Will Whizzards incorporate SAGA mechanics in the next incarnation of d20 Modern, or no? View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
May 24, 2009 - 5:08pm | I was impressed with True 20. If I wasn't trying to do something with SF I would probably use it or Savage Worlds as my system of choice. In my opinion SF has the best land (planet?) vehicle rules that I have seen in a long time. Savage Worlds vehicle rules are not too bad. True 20 vehicle rules are somewhat abstract, but playable. Most RPGs seem to breakdown when it comes to vehicle rules - either too abstract or too complicated for me. SF reached a nice balance. EDIT: d20 Modern, in fact most WOTC d20 games required too much DM preparation and effort to run. This led to DM Burnout and caused the group I played with to breakup. Everyone wanted to play, but no one wanted to DM. This is probably the most common "minus" to the whole d20 system. A lot of DMs just quit because it required too much of them to run a good game. View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write. "It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi "That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild) |
