What equipment is on a militia/UPF assault scout?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 14, 2017 - 3:21pm
I think this is a critical question just what equipment is on the Assault scout as standard load out.

for example I think there is at least one insuit (KHs equipment for radiation exposure) for the engineer but 2 seems probable so that there is a spare. purpose in KHs is for overhaul and refuel of the atomic engines but you never know when the evil referee will trot out those leaking nuclear batteries refered to in AD.

Most likely a laser power torch (KHs) and a power supply for it belt or backpack since militia or UPF Assault scouts can expect to respond to mayday's and rescue of victims from wreckage is a possibility in such situations.

Med kit? seems like a minimum. Perhaps some nutrarad from Zebs guide (1 for every crew member lets say 5 total)

and of course weapons and ammo- very interested in what you all have to say about this
clearly its not going to be unlimmited but it seems that a military ship would have a descent supply but what is a descent supply? are they carrying any non ship safe stuff?

other KHs equipment? extra LS tanks How many? patches for holes in vacuum suits? how many (more than likely a very generous supply of these I would think)? rocket packs? 1 per crew member? (call it 5 total)

emergency shelters? early SFman had a tent. exploration/survival equipment from Mutiny on the E. Mores?

EDIT
Working on a militia series of articles and I think the community should collaborate on this question and I collate it and submit it as a community collaboration to the zine for that militia series.

Anyone with naval experience out there? what might a small ship like this have for equipment?
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!
Comments:

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
September 20, 2017 - 9:34am
The Engineers Toolkit (KH Campaign book p 30) contains:

PLASTISEAL: Package of compressed plastic which, when activated, expands to a 2 meter x 2 meter sheet of airtight plastic, used for sealing holes in ships.  Several sheets of plastiseal can be used toghther to patch a very large hole.

It doesn't say how many or how much each package costs but we can make some guesses.  The full toolkit has three items: a wellaser, the plastiseal, and an insuit and costs 2500 cr.  The inssuit can't cost more than 1000 cr (the cost of a full spacesuit which does the same) so let's say it's 500 cr.  The wellaser is pretty hefty since it can cut and repair sheet metal (i.e. hull metal), let's price that at 1000 cr. (1/5 the cost of a laser power torch).  That leaves 1000 cr for the plastiseal.  So I say that the standard kit contains 10 packages each costing 100 cr.

I'd also add in a bit more in the way of rules about it's use.  Since it's designed for a temporary fix, there should be a chance of failure, from the sealant around the edges not holding or something along those lines.  Give it a 10% chance per day to develop a leak for the first sheet used and and additional 5% chance per day for each additional sheet needed to fill the hole. So a single sheet patch has a 10% chance each day to fail while one that required 4 sheets would have a 25% chance each day to develop a leak around one of the many seals.  Leaks require pumping the air out of the room (or just letting it decompress) and reapplying the patch.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 20, 2017 - 11:23am
Sargonarhes wrote:


And most if not all your equipment packs are forgetting what could be your most important tool. A basic knife.


multi-tool

I generally assume it to be a Gerber or leatherman type tool

@ Terl Obar: so add another 10 Plastiseal patches?
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
September 20, 2017 - 1:05pm
Probably.  Or just multiple toolkits so you get the extra inssuits, wellasers, and plastiseal patches.  My main point was that there already was a standard item.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
September 20, 2017 - 1:37pm
[quote=Sargonarhes
And most if not all your equipment packs are forgetting what could be your most important tool. A basic knife.

A "basic knife is a little to vague. After all we are dealing with four races who all have very different hands.

In survival situations a multitool with a knife blade might be more useful. 

Also while that is a lovely list above of survival gear I think you forgot the three porters per being to carry it. 
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Dave the Lost's picture
Dave the Lost
September 20, 2017 - 5:46pm
It should be possible to design a low tech, basic blade on a handle that can gripped by all four major races. Maybe easier than designing a universal grip multi-tool.

But I assume a "multi-tool" includes a knife function.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
September 20, 2017 - 9:00pm
I'm late to this party so disregard anything below that has already been covered...

> I would add electric swords to the arsenal, with both stun and shock settings they are versatile items (not to mention the shock settings are rather effective against spacesuit armor).

> A cache of D-19 regulated by the captain is a good idea.

> I would ditch the sonic stunner (or any other sonic weapons for that matter) as it is useless in a vacuum.

> A ToxyRad gauge is a must for inspecting inbound vessels, more so if you subscribe to the "extreme dangers posed to crews by atomic drives". Flashlights & freeze fields should also be standard fare.
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 20, 2017 - 11:21pm
Extra freeze fields make a lot of sense for rescue operatiins. If nothing else putting someone in a freeze field will reduce the load on life support.

Could someone be transported thru vacuum in a freeze field?

Flashlights have been overlooked.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

iggy's picture
iggy
September 21, 2017 - 2:27am
Transporting a being through a vacuum in a freeze field depends on what we define a freeze field as.  Is it a sealed box with the being inside or is it a field around a body projected by the device when attached to the body?  If its a box I would say yes, if it is a small device I would say no.  This also brings up the thought of how many freeze fields can be stored on a ship.  Several body sized boxes are harder to store than smaller devices. 
-iggy

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 21, 2017 - 4:32am
iggy wrote:
Transporting a being through a vacuum in a freeze field depends on what we define a freeze field as.  Is it a sealed box with the being inside or is it a field around a body projected by the device when attached to the body?  If its a box I would say yes, if it is a small device I would say no.  This also brings up the thought of how many freeze fields can be stored on a ship.  Several body sized boxes are harder to store than smaller devices. 

It fits inside the med kit. 
So no problem with having them on board. 

But how assault scouts have a medic on board?

I believe I listed a spare med kit and any medical will have their own med kit, so that's potentially 2 on board. Maybe 3 more as emergency and backup?
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
September 21, 2017 - 6:21am
Thinking back on this theme and the Serena Dawn survival kit made me realize on thing. That kit was custom built not for the adventure but for the danger. The expedition knew something about the place they were going and so they packed the life boats with items that would be useful for the place they expected to be.

Now we should have generic space survival kits, generic found a habitable planet survival kits and specific planet survival kits.

Also in certain places in the world, international shipping companies stock "survival refuges" so if a crew has to abandon ship or suffers a major breakdown they can live long enough for help to arrive.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
September 21, 2017 - 6:54am
IIRC the "frozen storage class" on space liners utilizes a freeze field, although that probably entails a box since it is in "storage" i.e. a "cargo hold" which tend to be in vacuum state during travel. Going by that anyone being transported via freeze field would simply be the body with a device attached and would need to be "stored" at the destination, meaning for a scout ship wither in a spare sealed box in the hold or on an unsused cabin bed.
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 21, 2017 - 12:08pm
Shadow Shack wrote:
IIRC the "frozen storage class" on space liners utilizes a freeze field, although that probably entails a box since it is in "storage" i.e. a "cargo hold" which tend to be in vacuum state during travel. Going by that anyone being transported via freeze field would simply be the body with a device attached and would need to be "stored" at the destination, meaning for a scout ship wither in a spare sealed box in the hold or on an unsused cabin bed.


Optimal word is "utilizes", I think storage class berths are som much more: backup life monitoring, can effectively act as an escape capsule, emergency beacon to alert searchers to the presence of a living being etc. they one thing they have to be is air tight or who would use them?

Edit: so I think we are about there with this compiled list.

I'm ready to pull it all together as one document and submit it to the zine (there is a dead line and not sure Tom S will humor me by including this) any final comments or items we forgot
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 21, 2017 - 12:25pm
RE: random item table here is my thoughts: its some fun extras sort of like searching the cargo on the Serena Dawn.

due to realities of mission the militia scout gets shorted on some key equipment and the UPF scout gets more because of missions being further away from logistics access points.

so by way of balancing things out I figured may be the militia scouts get more rolls on the random table?

1d2+3 for a militia scout and 1d3 for a Space fleet scout?

RE sonic weapons: Shadow I'm not sure I want to dump them. sonic weapons are exactly the kind of thing that a pencil pusher would decide is a good idea- "if you're searching a passenger line, you dont want to scare the civilians so all military personnel will carry non lethal weapons as per the ROE" or something like that. but then again they are absolutely useless in vacuum and the crews will hate them for that reason. The orders might reflect taking someone alive and ROE requires non lethal weapons the enemy realizes he can nuetralize the militia or space fleet weapons by simply depressuring the hull during the boarding action. and again the grunts at the pointy end of the stick get screwed because someone up the chain made a decision that sounded good to them.

As a compromise how about the sonics being an early issue and latter on in time most ships have dumped the sonics in exchange for electric swords and other things.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Dave the Lost's picture
Dave the Lost
September 21, 2017 - 1:09pm
Eleanor Moraes gives an extensive inventory for personal survival kits, emergency bivouac units, and general equipment for a survey expedition.

After looking at those lists, I would add potable water in containers, rations, and machetes to the locker.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
September 21, 2017 - 6:31pm
While some survival gear is probably necessary, I would point out the significant role differences between an exploration scout (Eleanor Moraes) and an assault scout (Osprey etc). The self-contained water supply (more so with a purification system) of an assault scout should provide more than enough water for the brief time it spends on missions compared to the extended stays an exploration scout (and its crew) endures in unchartered wildernesses.
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
September 21, 2017 - 7:52pm
Shadow Shack wrote:
While some survival gear is probably necessary, I would point out the significant role differences between an exploration scout (Eleanor Moraes) and a militia assault scout (Osprey). The self-contained water supply (more so with a purification system) of an assault scout should provide more than enough water for the brief time it spends on militia missions compared to the extended stays an exploration scout (and its crew) endures in unchartered wildernesses.
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 22, 2017 - 4:52am
I'm with shadow on the water issue except that the survival pack should have water an E rations. 

Thing about a machete is that it ends up being used food prep, weapon, wood chipper, brush cutter so it's handy especially in a survival situation. 
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
September 22, 2017 - 6:52am
jedion357 wrote:
Thing about a machete is that it ends up being used food prep, weapon, wood chipper, brush cutter so it's handy especially in a survival situation. 

While true, there's only one use it will see on a militia scout: weapon. Food prep is readily available in the galley, and there simply is no wood or brush to chip or cut in space. ;)
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 22, 2017 - 7:52am
Shadow Shack wrote:
jedion357 wrote:
Thing about a machete is that it ends up being used food prep, weapon, wood chipper, brush cutter so it's handy especially in a survival situation. 

While true, there's only one use it will see on a militia scout: weapon. Food prep is readily available in the galley, and there simply is no wood or brush to chip or cut in space. ;)


I was thinking in terms of including it in the survival pack but then if they go "Crash on Volturnus" in their own system they're not likely to really need the machete.

query: the assault scout has no escape pods, would not the escape procedure be head to the bottom deck and bail out? In this situation you'd want a survival kit that included days worth of LS packs and a beacon and some rope to lash yourself to other survivors.

EDIT I'm thinking that the MOOSE 2 is the desired "survival pack" for assault scouts:
http://frontierexplorer.org/book/nascom-automated-systems-aerospace

its a total rip off of NASA but very appropriate for Star Frontiers.

Although I think the description could be altered to allow for a group of them to home in on the lead unit especially if an astrogator was unable to update them with planet side coordinates. Each level 3 processor will have an 85% chance of landing within 1km of the first unit.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
September 22, 2017 - 6:25pm
jedion357 wrote:


I was thinking in terms of including it in the survival pack but then if they go "Crash on Volturnus" in their own system they're not likely to really need the machete.

Each militia scout would have to tailor any survival pack to its system's planets. For example, a boggy water-world would necesitate some life rafts or other flotation devises and a desert world would certainly mandate more water...but considering how any of the worlds besides their home world will most likely have no atmosphere a space suit is thecenterpiece. One thing would be universal: a subspace radio and dedicated power supply to call in their location. 
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 22, 2017 - 10:17pm
Shadow Shack wrote:
jedion357 wrote:


I was thinking in terms of including it in the survival pack but then if they go "Crash on Volturnus" in their own system they're not likely to really need the machete.

Each militia scout would have to tailor any survival pack to its system's planets. For example, a boggy water-world would necesitate some life rafts or other flotation devises and a desert world would certainly mandate more water...but considering how any of the worlds besides their home world will most likely have no atmosphere a space suit is thecenterpiece. One thing would be universal: a subspace radio and dedicated power supply to call in their location. 


Yeah I agree militia scouts will tailor their survival packs to their world so for a general resource for a game master to be able to answer a player's question of just what's stocked on this assault scout best to leave the specifics of the survival pack to the referee.

Although, I'm strongly leaning toward the MOOSE 2 being standard on all assault scouts.

EDIT: today is early Saturday Eastern time and I have a crazy schedule but I plan to pull all this together and submit it to the zine on Sunday so any other thoughts, comments or arguements for or against something bring em.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 5, 2017 - 11:13am
iggy wrote:
Idea inspired by the tangler grenade.  What if there is a hole plugging grenade/canister?  This is a spray can that can also be put in fast release like a smoke grenade.  The contents are a sticky substance that hardens when exposed to vacuum.  If the crew knows where the leak is they can spray this over the hole to clog it up for a quick fix.  If the hole is somewhere they can't reach or they can't find it they can put masks on and open the whole can.  This will fill the whole room and the action of escaping air will pull the sticky particles into the hole(s).  If the hole is big then the can can be set to explode releasing non-arisolized masses of the liquid that will be pulled to the hole or can be directed to the hole by aiming the can toward the breach.  Think party popper where you aim the bottom of the can toward the breach and pull the string on the top.

Just brain storming an idea as I run out the door for work.


There is the solid grenade from Zebs, which I always thought was kind of useless, but maybe this could be a reason why it was made.
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 5, 2017 - 11:38am
jedion357 wrote:
Tchklinxa wrote:
On the ship spray idea I got a similiar thing in a D&D module concerning damaged area of the Beagle... Foam that is green with a hard ceramic like surface also protects against radiation... Old Star Empires ship crash landed... I will look through the notes on that stuff thought it was perfect for SF.


Dosnt Zebs have a similar incompacitation foam?


Yes, the solid grenade.
Joe Cabadas

JCab747's picture
JCab747
October 5, 2017 - 11:59am
Shadow Shack wrote:
I'm late to this party so disregard anything below that has already been covered...

> I would add electric swords to the arsenal, with both stun and shock settings they are versatile items (not to mention the shock settings are rather effective against spacesuit armor).

> A cache of D-19 regulated by the captain is a good idea.

> I would ditch the sonic stunner (or any other sonic weapons for that matter) as it is useless in a vacuum.

> A ToxyRad gauge is a must for inspecting inbound vessels, more so if you subscribe to the "extreme dangers posed to crews by atomic drives". Flashlights & freeze fields should also be standard fare.


Good observation. Though sonic weapons might be useful as long as the hull hasn't been punctured, but you are correct that they are useless in a vacuum.
Joe Cabadas

jedion357's picture
jedion357
October 10, 2017 - 3:50pm
Alright I looked over the suggestions for survival packs and then over the survival kit in SFman #1 and simply went with that for simplicity as it incorporated pretty much everything you all suggested.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!