K'Tsa Kar / Zoot-kit and Zebulon / Volturnus

ExileInParadise's picture
ExileInParadise
December 5, 2016 - 9:44pm
I search this site for Zoot and got zero hits, so I thought I would ask this here.

SFKH1 Dramune Run comes with a nice full-color map of the Frontier which shows the K'Tsa Kar star system possessing a planet called Zoot-kit, rather than the planet Kawdl-kit listed in Zebulon's Guide.

The same map in Dramune Run only shows Volturnus in the Zebulon system, as of FY61.

[Side note to canon timeline enthusiasts: it also does not show Sundown, Rihanna, Belnafaer, Tristkar, or Liberty systems, letting you place those modules in relation to 61FY.]

I am hesitant to simply use the Zebulon's Guide information, at all, when it comes to the Frontier Map or Timeline because I find so many mistakes in both.

The Dragon Magazine #92 StarQuestions article contained a Q&A stating that the missing planetary system information for K'Tsa Kar and Zebulon systems would be printed in an upcoming ARES.

Does anyone know if that happened or if the canon star system data ever appeared somewhere perhaps as an errata?
Comments:

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
December 6, 2016 - 9:52am
A search for "K'Tsa Kar" in the Dragon Magazine Archive turns up no results, so I guess there was never any errata.

JCab747's picture
JCab747
December 6, 2016 - 10:32am
My guess is "Zoot-kit" is a typo on the Dramune Run map... Unless it's the planet where the Vrusk version of the Zoot Suit is made.

When you start reading a number of posts on this site, you'll see that many have pointed out the flaws in the Zebs timeline. And yes, Zebs added Anker to the Zebulon system even though everything else only mentions Volturnus. Look for the next issue of Frontier Explorer magazine for some more fan speculation on that topic.
Joe Cabadas

ExileInParadise's picture
ExileInParadise
December 6, 2016 - 8:18pm
I've had to throw the Zeb's map under the bus for a number of reasons, which I posted in the "Issues of Frontier Astro Geography" thread.

Plus, the Zebs "Planets of the Frontier" listing in the text has errors too.
Outer Reach has 5 moons in Alpha Dawn, but lost one in Zebs? Did the Sathar blow it up? The Malthar?

It's going to be another piece of work merging that mess back to Alpha Dawn.

At this point, I think Zoot-kit was correct in Dramune Run which is a model of layout and editing compared to Zeb's, and that Kawdl-kit is the typo... especially when other Vrusk worlds use Z's in them, but no W's.

Finally, I personally thought the Zoot-kit was a tribute to B5's Rebo and Zooty "Zoot Zoot" - even Vrusk can appreciate Rebo and Zooty... I wonder if JMS played some Dramune Run?

sevanwint's picture
sevanwint
December 6, 2016 - 8:44pm
When in doubt, Zeb's is in doubt.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 6, 2016 - 10:06pm
I do believe we've found someone who shares the same disdain towards Zeb's Guide as I do. Damned glad to know ya. Cool

Best use of the book to date: it keeps oil leaks from staining the garage floor. Foot in mouth


No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

JCab747's picture
JCab747
December 6, 2016 - 11:28pm
Shadow Shack wrote:
I do believe we've found someone who shares the same disdain towards Zeb's Guide as I do. Damned glad to know ya. Cool

Best use of the book to date: it keeps oil leaks from staining the garage floor. Foot in mouth




At least you still have a copy to wipe the oil up with.
Joe Cabadas

ExileInParadise's picture
ExileInParadise
December 18, 2016 - 11:20am
UPDATED: Turns out, Kawdl-kit is one that Zeb's got right.

Working on my Character Birthworld tables (for the third time now?) I ran across the name of the planet in K'tsa Kar system as "Kawdl-kit" in the Star Frontiers Knight Hawks Campaign Book p56.

So, now I have no idea where Zoot-kit on the Dramune Run color map comes from... but we have two choices:
1. It's another Clarion/Gollywog style nickname issue?
2. K'tsa Kar has two settled worlds, like Penglar and Dramune.

I think I prefer the "nickname" option because it saves making up another set of non-canon planetary data, and saves for explaining why none of the maps show two worlds there.

The Knight Hawks Campaign Book also shows Zikit as an alternate spelling for Zik-kit... which let's you also pretend that Kdikit in Madderly's World system might also be some sort of alternate spelling.

Well, at least the Kawdl-kit/Zoot-kit business seems to be sorted to my satisfaction.
I like a mystery solved, with a bonus that its one less knock against Zebs in my mind.

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 18, 2016 - 12:53pm
Second on Nick name. Simplest answer.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

JCab747's picture
JCab747
December 19, 2016 - 11:10am
jedion357 wrote:
Second on Nick name. Simplest answer.


I'll vote for Zoot-kit as a nickname.
Joe Cabadas

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 19, 2016 - 9:15pm
JCab747 wrote:
jedion357 wrote:
Second on Nick name. Simplest answer.


I'll vote for Zoot-kit as a nickname.



The vrusk will care nothing for a nick name unlike the citizens of Clarion/Gollywog as their language is unpronouncable anyway and any translation of the vrusk language is simply an agreed upon word to substitute for the vrusk word. Thank very much dralasite linguist.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

JCab747's picture
JCab747
December 19, 2016 - 11:36pm
And get your Frontier Zoot Suits at Zoot-kit.
Joe Cabadas

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
December 20, 2016 - 9:02am
jedion357 wrote:
The vrusk will care nothing for a nick name unlike the citizens of Clarion/Gollywog as their language is unpronouncable anyway and any translation of the vrusk language is simply an agreed upon word to substitute for the vrusk word.

Most Vrusk names in the rule books appear to be phonetic approximations of Vrusk languages. These approximations are not arbitrary substitutions. I'm sure the Vrusk care as much about their names as do the members of any other race and don't want to see them belittled. You don't have to resort to racial stereotypes to explain a nickname.

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 22, 2016 - 4:26pm
Even with a phonetic approximation of a vrusk name a vrusk is likely to view it as a hash of their name. They accept this for the purpose of working with the rest of the core four. It's a pragmatic view and likely would apply to nicknames like Zoot-Kit. Not something they would fuss over like citizens of Clarion react to Gollywog. 
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

ChrisDonovan's picture
ChrisDonovan
December 28, 2016 - 12:54am
Zooty!  Zoot-zoot! :D

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 28, 2016 - 8:35pm
It's discussions like these where Larry is ominously missed.

Larry, a.k.a. "w00t".
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 30, 2016 - 8:13am
Shadow Shack wrote:
It's discussions like these where Larry is ominously missed.

Larry, a.k.a. "w00t".


ROFL!

w00t Suit
w00t z00t!
w00t-a-z00t z00t!
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

parriah's picture
parriah
January 17, 2017 - 6:40pm
St Petersburg, Lenningrad, St Petersburg. Constentinople, Istanbul. Political climates change, then place names change. Simple. Post SWII the name changed because after the war, a new bunch came into power and stamped thier brand on it.
FIAWOL TANSTAAFL!!

JCab747's picture
JCab747
January 18, 2017 - 10:57am
parriah wrote:
St Petersburg, Lenningrad, St Petersburg. Constentinople, Istanbul. Political climates change, then place names change. Simple. Post SWII the name changed because after the war, a new bunch came into power and stamped thier brand on it.


That's an idea. Zoot zoot!
Joe Cabadas

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 18, 2017 - 12:02pm
So with 3 Dramune Wars we can presume that some of those occasioned a regime change and things like Dark World Station probably had a different name before and after the Malthar. 
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

parriah's picture
parriah
January 18, 2017 - 1:15pm
Names don't always change, but, sure. Mebe it had a diff name pre-Malthar, and reverted. Zoot-zoot.
FIAWOL TANSTAAFL!!

ExileInParadise's picture
ExileInParadise
January 18, 2017 - 7:05pm
Yeah, for myself I've chalked it up was Kawdl-kit was the name, but has a nickname of Zoot-kit much like Clarion is also known as Gollywog.

I have found a Knight Hawks campaign book reference to Kawdl-kit in the stations section, and the canon map of FY61 that came with Dramune Run shows Zoot-kit - both as canon - just need their story. Name changes by government are a good one - in fact it could even change back by 111 FY if you use Zebs.

zoot ZOOT zoot! kit.

JCab747's picture
JCab747
January 18, 2017 - 7:48pm
Hey Zooty: zoot zoot!

Image result for babylon 5 zooty
Joe Cabadas