optional rule for heavy worlders

Bio-Social's picture
Bio-Social
May 1, 2015 - 8:28pm

OPTIONAL RULE for use with Frontier setting or other setting with humans on higher grav planets



Most humans from Laco, Morgaine’s World, and New Pale have been modified/bred for high gravity (1.4 to 1.5 native gravity) conditions. PCs from those worlds may swap any one pair of lower scores with STR/STA, so that STR/STA are raised.


These heavy-worlders tend to be short and stocky.




-------------------------


Thoughts?


Comments:

Malcadon's picture
Malcadon
May 2, 2015 - 6:58am
“Hay, I'm not fat! I'm... just a 'heavy-worlder'!”

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
May 2, 2015 - 9:15am
I like it.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
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Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 2, 2015 - 11:44am
Sounds good I was thinking about modifing some similiar ideas from Gurps Space on heavy-worlders and lower gravity worlders.
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
May 2, 2015 - 12:19pm
What do people the think the equivalent should be for light worlders i.e. 0.6-0.7 g planets?
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 2, 2015 - 5:40pm
TerlObar wrote:
What do people the think the equivalent should be for light worlders i.e. 0.6-0.7 g planets?


Increased height and take the lowest ability pair for STR/STA
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 3, 2015 - 8:35am
I think we are on the right track: GURPS has a huge amount of info on how Gravity effects just about everything: STR, HT (STA), DX and even IQ (LOG), how bullets travel, space ships, health effects... (I know some place I read at some point something on life expencies are lowered, maybe that was Traveller can't remember for sure where that info is), climbing, jumping, throwing and so on. They also have all sorts of advantages, disadvantages & skills that help or hinder with gravity. I could not locate my Basic Book (you need both the Space & Basic to get all the info on gravity & PCs) so I hit the net: here is how GURPS handles just some of the effects of Gravity: (I think we aught to consider the DX angle as well)

 (http://forums.sjgames.com/tags.php?tag=gravity)

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=76897

A GURPS character has a "home gravity" (B.17). within ±0.2 gees or this home gravity he or she acts as normal. For each full 0.2 gees difference between the prevailing gravity and a character's home gravity, a character suffers a -1 ro all DX rolls and DX-based skills. There is also a penalty to IQ and HT for gravity well above home gravity, but it comes in at larger values (B.350) so we don't have to worry about it for the purposes of this discussion.

A character can improve his or her performance in non-home gravities by one skill or by either of two advantages.

The skill is Free Fall (B.197), "the ability to operate in a free-fall (zero-gravity) environment." When you are in free fall you roll against the lower of this skill and your DX or DX-based skill for DX-based tasks. I presume that that means DX and skill without the penalty for non-home gravity, because it is hard to get rid of that penalty as we shall see below. If the penalty does apply everyone is going to be pretty clumsy in free fall, and stay that way despite acquiring Free Fall skill. (Note that there are rules for free fall conditions in the Free Fall skill description that do not appear in the rules section on 'Different Gravity' (B.350).

The first advantage (taken alphabetically) is G-Experience (B.57). This advantage costs 1 point per gravity "field" (the example making it clear that this means "value of local gravity"), and halves the DX penalty for operating in this "field". I am not sure of the rule for rounding fractional skill penalties (B.9 doesn't mention skill bonuses or penalties), but I am going to assume that you roundup, that -½ becomes -0. The rules don't say how wide the band of gravities encompassed by a "field" is. I presume that the difference betyween 0.16 gee and 0.161 gee wouldn't matter to anything except a sensitive gravitometer, but I couldn't say whether the "field" encompassed ±0.2 gee (like a home gravity) or one of the 0.2-gee increments based on home gravity (so that a person from Earth with G-experience in the Moon's gravity would suffer halved penalties (-2 instead of -4) in the increment 0 gee to 0.2 gee), or what.

You can buy G-Experience in all gravities (ie. halve all DX penalties but not IQ or HT penalties) for 10 points.

Note that G-experience will never allow you to fully acclimatise to 0.5 gee if you grew up at 1.0 gee, etc.

The other useful advantage is Improved G-Tolerance. This widens the "G increments" around home gravity. For 5 character points you have no penalties in the range within home gravity ± 0.3 gees, and -1 per full 0.3 gees away from your home gravity. For 10 points you get -1 per full 0.5 gees, which is better than G-Experience in all gravities at the same price, and also reduces the HT and IQ penalties at very high gravities. For 15 points you get -1 per full 1.0 gees away from home; for 20 you get -1 per full 5 gees difference; and for 25 you get -1 per full 10 gees difference.

Unfortunately Improved G-Tolerance is not a learnable advantage. You can't buy it to represent acclimatising to a new planet's gravity.

As we saw a while ago, in a universe compliant with GURPS Space shirtsleeve-habitable planets will have surface gravities ranging from about 0.44 gee to 1.44 gee, none lower, and few higher (those not at all common and not very appealing). The average surface gravity of habitable planets will be about 0.8 gee.

Typical characters will have a home gravity of about 0.8 gee. They will suffer no DX penalty in the range approximately 0.6 gee to 1.0 gee. They will have a -1 from 0.4 to 0.6 gee, and from 1.0 gee to 1.2 gee which they can buy off for 1 point per "gravity field"—but we don't know how wide gravity fields are. They will have a -2 at 0.2 gee to 0.4 gee (encompassing no habitable worlds, but pertaining at some outposts and perhaps on some spaceships) and from 1.2 to 1.4 gee (including some habitable worlds and high-spec spaceships), which they will be able to reduce, but never completely eliminate. They will have a -3 in microgravity to 0.2 gee and on some, not very appealing, habitable worlds.

A player will be disadvantaging his character in a way that is hard to mend if he or she makes him come from a planet with a surface gravity much below 0.8 gee or much above 0.9 gee, because there are going to be plenty of inhabited worlds with gravities only a little above 0.5 gee or only a little below 1.2 gee.
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 3, 2015 - 2:47pm
I went and looked up the AD rules on Gravity page 20, Zebs made no changes to these rules: they are based on a tenth but not as uniform I suspect maybe a type-o for that reason:

So per book normal human base is Earth Grvaity of 1 g

every 1 tenth (.1g) less an average human...
carrying capacity increase 5 kg M My take is this hould be 2 kg
distance leap & vault inceases 5 m My take is this should be .5m
distance can jump safely increases 1 m
damage from fall decreased by 2

every 1 tenth (.1g) more an average human...
carrying capcity decreases 2 kg
distance leap & vault decreases .5 m
distance can jump safely decreases 1 m
damage from fall increased by 2

I think the rule from GURPS that rounds down Gravity is good pg71 Space 2nd ed can be used if tweeked to SF #s: So no modifications are needed for planets with a gravity between .91g to 1.09g, penalties and advatages do not occur. However at .90g or 1.1g they would.

 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 3, 2015 - 3:23pm
I would welcome some simple rules for heavy and low gravity world beings.

I loved Larry Niven's novel The Intregral Trees. If we had an article on low gravity effects I'd feel like I would need to work on a conversion of the Intregral Trees for Sf gaming.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 3, 2015 - 4:37pm
Well based on AD a .1g adaptation of a being would +/- ='s +/- 2 STR. I think Gurps has a good point on DX being effected, maybe +/- 1 to DX. STA might be effected too. I wish I could remeber which game/resource has the height/weight life span chart I am thinking of. Do we have any skills or advantages/disadvantages in any of the material that deals with G or lack of it? If not I can pilfer Gurps to get us started.
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
May 3, 2015 - 7:11pm
Question, why are large people clutzes? Why do we assume if you are big and strong you can't tie your own shoe laces? The NFL would seem to disprove this.

Yes yes game balance you scream but why do we have to follow the stereotype? Can anyone on this forum come up with a heavy gravity planet bonus that is not stat trade off tripe?

Oh and see if you can make the low gee beings not be elves.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 3, 2015 - 7:30pm
High G= short broad and stocky ie dwarves and

Low G= tall, thin boned ie elves?

I think stronger High G folk would find lower G to afford their muscles a quicker twitch since they are not fighting the higher G

Perhaps the benefits of High G navitity are not an ability score trade off but but a boost to carrying capacity- what ever their normal carrying capacity is under the rules times their native gravity?

I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Bio-Social's picture
Bio-Social
May 4, 2015 - 2:29pm

Rat-

 

I already did come up with it, as my heavy g human optional rule (presented in the first post) doesn't assume klutziness at all. ;)

I'm also not assuming they are bigger than normal humans. They have minor genetic engineering modifications to the heart, the skeletal system, some other organs and systems in the body.

 

As far as low g humans being like 'elves,' I'm a bit confused by that. What do you mean?

 

 

 

 

 


rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
May 4, 2015 - 3:04pm
Dwarves are short and stocky because they live in tunnels under the earth which had to be carved out by hand. This led to them being not so tall and very strong.

Elves are skinny and dextrous because they are supposed to be the "regal and beautiful" people and apparently this is what people equate to beautiful.

Alien races should have logical evolutionary reasons for being the way they are. There should also be some variation with in the race to allow for different conditions on their home planet. Think of the differences between Europeans and Asians which while mostly cosmetic do have some medical differences because of the areas of the Earth they live in. Don't forget the inbetween races such as the Slavic and Mongeral peoples. Inbetween in that they are inbetween the European and Asians.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Bio-Social's picture
Bio-Social
May 4, 2015 - 3:42pm

Great answers! That helps clear it up a lot.

RE Heavy worlders:

I assume the comparative shortness and stockiness of heavy worlders reflects divergent  bone and muscle development under higher gravity with a heritage of deliberate genetic modifications. Being a bit wider in the feet with a lower center of mass helps them get around safely and avoid injuries from tripping and falling. Thicker bones resist fractures. Circulatory system mods help them function properly in 1.4 or 1.5 g. But there are indeed some trade-offs, best reflected by the flexible option of swapping STR/STA with any one set of other stats. A high grav person may be irritable due to different hormone levels, or suffer occasional high BP related headaches, or show a bit less manual dexterity because his fingers are thicker. It's not a simple' they are dwarves and dwarves are clumsy, or cranky, or stupid, orwhatever.' But the modifications don't make them ubermensch. I'm actually trying to avert that sci fi trope (high g makes people superhuman).

 

RE: light worlders:

As far as low grav humans go, I don't think they need to be notably good looking or dextrous. They might be skinny, but I could easily see some obese low g humans.

If the Frontier humans have the medical tech to adapt humans to 1.5 g, though, they can presumbly fix most of the problems resulting from lower gravity development. I don't know that a human from a.7 g world would be all that freakish. Porbably less development or large muscles and a somehwat thinner skeletal frame, but he doesn't need to be an ''elf."

 

Unless one wants that. Then go for it. :()

 

I've done a brief write up of 'space elves' once, but they were human cyborgs with a violent, dedacent culture. And they were not low gravity natives.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 4, 2015 - 5:59pm
I don't assume HGers are clumsy, it is more you have a native gravity for a species or racial sub-type, once the individual is by game rules no longer in that native gravity they start feeling the effects... now in thinking about racial sub groups adapted either by natural selection or GM I have to admit some theories make sense but others maybe not look at humans the Pygmies are not heavy worlders & tall skinny people are not living in low g either, so that assumption maybe wrong. So I am thinking more along those lines myself. I think the optional rule Bio-Social came up with works but the thread does bring up some potential ideas concerning gravity... 
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

KRingway's picture
KRingway
May 10, 2015 - 9:22am
Being willowy or chunky doesn't necessarily make you dextrous or clumsy by default. That said, those from high or low-G worlds on worlds of 1G would have to spend some time acclimatising and so for a time would be somewhat accident prone. The same would be true from 1Gers on high or low-G planets.

As to whether people from high or low-G would be thinner or chunkier, one wonders if this is actually the case. Other factors come into play. And one wonders how it applies to non-human races who have grown up on such worlds...

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
May 10, 2015 - 6:41pm
Does make you wonder. If you know you are going to be decerating to a planet with a 1.3g normal, why would you do so at 1g? Why not prep for the landfall at a higher speed and therefore ship's gravity. 

Of course most starship crews do not leave orbit since their ships cannot land so this would only really be for passenger convenience but why not? 
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Bio-Social's picture
Bio-Social
May 10, 2015 - 7:23pm

One could borrow some drugs presented in GURPS Space.

Ursaline is a drug spacers can take to prevent decalcification and other health problems  associated with prolonged time in microgravity/low gravity.

 

Gravanol is a mildly addictive drug that helps the user resist the negative physiological effects of high gravity or accerlation. Not a super strength drug-- it helps organ systems function properly and resist gravity/acceleration related stresses and injuries.

 

I think both these (again, not my creations) could fit in Star Frontiers.

 

 

 

 


jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 11, 2015 - 3:49am
Bio-Social wrote:

One could borrow some drugs presented in GURPS Space.

Ursaline is a drug spacers can take to prevent decalcification and other health problems  associated with prolonged time in microgravity/low gravity.

 

Gravanol is a mildly addictive drug that helps the user resist the negative physiological effects of high gravity or accerlation. Not a super strength drug-- it helps organ systems function properly and resist gravity/acceleration related stresses and injuries.

 

I think both these (again, not my creations) could fit in Star Frontiers.

 

 

 

 



to fit them in you would need to enforce consequences microgavity and for accel/decel and etc otherwise they would be so much fluff.

OR... add an encounter to Warriors of White Light where the crew of the Osprey have to travel into the outer system and do medical checks and administer drugs to the crews of system ships who may or may not be suffering from these ill effects.

In fact I would use the game mechanic/format for diseases, though modified a little to not be a penalty for mental ability scores, as the basis for "zero gravity sickness"
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Bio-Social's picture
Bio-Social
May 11, 2015 - 6:35pm

I'm okay with all that stuff being just 'fluff'/background details.

But it could also be fun to make it a set of environmental factors and related technology that may come into active gameplay. I like your idea about adding an encounter to Warriors of White Light.

 

 

 


jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 12, 2015 - 5:26am
Ok so the game standard for a disease is -10/8 which would be -10 to all ability checks for 8 ten hour time periods. If this formula was followed by and "!" the patient would die automatically at the end of 80 hours.

Gravity sickness should not affect all of the ability scores (I'm not even sure if all diseases should effect all abiltiy scores)

So what if Gravity Sickness was -10(STA/STR)/X the ability modifier is for only STA/STR and X here represents a period of ten hour time increments that will lead to further deteriation of the characters physical wellbeing.

In other words gravity sickness occurs when you spend too much time in 0g and you get the -10 ability scoure penalty. It will continue indefinetly but after a certain ammount of time (we should check what NASA has to say about it) the body further deteriorates and that time element should be represented in "X" when the time limit is reached another -10 is applied.

Tests for gravity sickness: when a character has reached the time limit for the possibility of gravity sickness then they make a STA check to avoid (this represents their efforts to work out and maintain themselves despite 0g) if they pass they must make another check every GST day (20 hours) to continue to avoid gravity sickness.

Also upon returning to a gravity well (planet or station with significant spin for 1g) even if the character does not have GS but was making ability checks for it they must make one more STA check or suffer a -5 for 3 days.

Enter the drugs to stave off or cure gravity sickness.

Bio-cort could have a role to play in the treatment since its a cure all wonder drug likely fueled by nanites.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

KRingway's picture
KRingway
May 12, 2015 - 6:11am
If all of these things only effect humans, what are the rules for the other races?

Bio-Social's picture
Bio-Social
May 12, 2015 - 2:02pm

I don't necessarilly assume that only humans are effected.

 

Dralasites have changeable bodies. This may give them a minor advantage in adapting to different gravities. I'd keep any advantage quite minor, so as not to overpower the race with cool new powers.

 

Vrusk have multiple legs, which presumably better distributes their weight and maybe garnts a bit more stability.  This could help with some aspects of higher grav life. Maybe they would also use genetic tech, maybe not. I wouldn't assume any special resistance. They'd likely need drugs as much as any Human, only different compounds or different dosages.

 

 

 

Yazirians are poorly suited to what Humans would consider a high grav world. That probably explains why they haven't colonized any such (IIRC). Gravanol meant for humans might work on them, but with side effects.

 

YMMV

 

 

 


JCab747's picture
JCab747
February 6, 2017 - 8:13pm
Another interesting idea that should be made into a story for Frontier Explorer.
Joe Cabadas

jedion357's picture
jedion357
February 7, 2017 - 7:24am
Chronic 0 g disorder: C0GD 

Leading to the expression: he's cogged meaning suffering from 0g illness latter the phrase morphed to be that he's generally screwed up. In particular it's become the FUBAR and SUBAR in Frontier militaries. "This situation is all cogged!"

When spacers have spent too much time in zero g and they begin to suffer negative health effects. 

Frontier medical science has developed the drug osteo-chi-plasm dose to combat bone and chiton loss for core four. It's not carried in the med kit. It comes in a suplimenental case of 20 costing 200 Cr for the case. This drug only combats the symptom of bone loss or plasm deterioration as the case may be. 
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

JCab747's picture
JCab747
February 7, 2017 - 8:00am
jedion357 wrote:

Frontier medical science has developed the drug osteo-chi-plasm dose to combat bone and chiton loss for core four. ... 

Maybe taking this drug has a side effect, such as giving humans blue streaks in their hair -- like is portrayed in the book "Captive Planet."
Joe Cabadas

iggy's picture
iggy
February 7, 2017 - 2:32pm
I suppose that excessive use osteo-chi-plasm could lead to joint binding, facial/skeletal/chitin distortion, and impaired elasticity.  Some old spacers who didn't control their dosage and regulate their recovery time in real g could end up looking like Quasimoto. 
-iggy

jedion357's picture
jedion357
February 7, 2017 - 6:36pm
iggy wrote:
I suppose that excessive use osteo-chi-plasm could lead to joint binding, facial/skeletal/chitin distortion, and impaired elasticity.  Some old spacers who didn't control their dosage and regulate their recovery time in real g could end up looking like Quasimoto. 

I love that! The Quasimodo look as another example of being cogged.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
February 8, 2017 - 8:16am
Proper use of osteo-chi-plasm requires time under 1g and exercise. Belt miners and spacers working on system s hips are notorious for not following the proper protocols in its use. This leads to the aforementioned Quasimodo effect. 

Adventure hook Royal Marines: a belt miner who misuses this med and rarely comes in from the dark has his family on ship with him and the young children are showing advanced signs of the condition. After a recent docking at Planaron Station a concerned being sent a report to Star Law. Star Law determined that this was not a case of interstellar criminals or sathar agents so they kicked it to the appropriate agency on Clarion. But DSS has notstanding in the outer system so the issue has landed with the Royal Marines and the crew of the Osprey is being sent to track this belt miner, board and inspect his ship, and return with no less then the minor children but if a determination of child endangerment is made the belt miner and his ship are to be brought to Clarion station. 

The belt miner is a crafty old prospector so running him down will not be easy. Also he's been out in the black a long time and is a little off his rocker. He we percieved the PCs as enemies although he not go guns blazing on them. More likely will slip down ventilation shafts trap PCs between security doors, attack single PCs from behind etc.

Now to be sure snatching children from their parents is not a very heroic or glamorous mission so this mission really needs to be a hook that leads the Royal Marines to the belt for something else.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

JCab747's picture
JCab747
February 8, 2017 - 8:39am
An interesting story idea.

Back to other gravity issues:

Wouldn't a character who isn't used to higher gravity grow more tired in such an environment? Why aren't movement rates affected like carrying/jumping ability? Why isn't the character's endurance for running/climbing/swimming reduced -- at least until they acclimate to the environment?

Not that I want to make the rules too complicate, but wouldn't the range of tossed/thrown/archaic ranged weapons (i.e. bows and arrows) be reduced too?

I suppose you could add to the AD Weapons skills list the Zeb's weightless combat skill plus a separate hi-G tolerance skill to allow characters to compensate for the effects of those environments.

Would Yazarians come up with something to help them glide in environments above 1 G. I think that's the cut off range for their ability, yet one of their major planets -- Hargut -- is a 1.1 G world.
Joe Cabadas