Frontier Space site content

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous
March 3, 2010 - 7:46pm
First I'd like to announce the DwD Studios site is up and running at http://dwdstudios.com/

Secondly, Bill and I originally planned to host the Frontier Space community/development site under DwD Studios. After building the new site we realized it won't fit the compartmental model we were hoping to have. We also decided not to renew the development domain. DwD Studios will have a page dedicated to Frontier Space along with downloads and various Player and Referee tools (currently we have the FS Character Sheet, Archetype Sheet and Psychokinetist Mentalist Cards).

For those that participated (and have data) on the Froniter Space community/development site;
There have been some challenges in keeping the site running and we miss the site as much as everyone else. We want to provide a place where the community can work on settings and supplements for the game.

How would you like to proceed?
  1. Don't need the old site anymore... We'll start fresh at dwdstudios.com or here on sf.us
  2. Put the site up for 30 days so I can grab my content.
  3. Host the site somewhere for free, as long as I have access to discuss and post my stuff I don't care where.
  4. Other ideas?
Comments:

jedion357's picture
jedion357
March 3, 2010 - 8:38pm
I haven't logged on FS in a long time (reasons stem from a decision on my part) but if there is content to be lost every effort should be made to recover it. so I'd encourage #2 but that's not a real solution just a hey we dont want you to lose your work jesture
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
March 3, 2010 - 10:53pm

I have visited the new site and i have to say that I was a little shocked. I am going to try to remain optomisitic but this does feel like a giant step backwards.


Will's picture
Will
March 4, 2010 - 2:19am
#2 for definite.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
March 4, 2010 - 8:27am
I'll have to agree with AZ_GAMER.  As a product site for the public it is fine and provides a place to talk about the game(s) and download material.  However, as a development site where the people working on it can post material and discuss ideas out of view of the general public, it appears to be completely useless.  There only seems to be a public forums and no way to upload material at all.  So unless there is more to the site that certain accounts will be allowed into, it seems to not provide the needed functionality for a community development site. 

<rant>Of course there hasn't been any community development allowed on the core FrontierSpace system for the last 3-4 months at least.  Bill and Larry seem to have decided to do it all on their own without any input from anyone for months.  Supposedly there are 200+ pages of player and referee manual material that no one has seen and hasn't been shared for comments/review.  Hopefully that isn't intentional but from Larry's post it looks like the community is only supposed to work on settings and suppliments, not the core system.  Anyway, that's the way it appears from my perspective.</rant> Undecided

In any case, a development site needs to exist if this is truly going to be a community effort.  So number 2 is a must so that the community content can be recovered.  If we want to go with 0ption #3, I offered back in December when the site went down to host it on my server (so obviously it wasn't missed too much as the offer was never taken up).  I'm a little less enthusiastic about it now seeing how this seems to be going but the offer still stands.  We can either reregister the domain or I can host it off my starfrontiers.info or newfrontiergames.com domains.

I think this game will probably be quite interesing and do well and I'd like to be a part of it but it just feels very closed off these days.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

SmootRK's picture
SmootRK
March 4, 2010 - 8:55am
I am just waiting to see the rules and their presentation, even if in a pre-release form.

Will it be free download?  perhaps with a Lulu Book offering for a quality hard copy?
What supplements will appear?  Perhaps a compilation of Supplements might make it to Lulu as well?

I have been holding off doing much around here, waiting for these rules to appear to start a new game with. 
<insert witty comment here>

CleanCutRogue's picture
CleanCutRogue
March 4, 2010 - 9:29am
Hi all,

I just want to make sure everyone understands what's happening.  We opened community development up for discussion of FrontierSpace but I was always trying to take a leadership role in it.  My intent is to create a game with all of our input.  Once all the design docs were up and we all discussed like crazy, I have been at the task of putting it all into words which flow like a game book.  Those words are not kept in secret... they are just in progress for a long time.  I've worked on a potential layout for the book I really like and have even opened negotiations with some artists for a cover.  The player's handbook is very robust and I hope will be exciting.  But of course, it's still in development (and still full of placeholder artwork)... and you are all part of that development process.  As soon as it's ready (I expect that to be very soon... the book is currently 270ish pages in size!) my goal is to share it with all of you for comment, discussion, character generation and testing.  Then begins the long process of making command decisions based on all that discussion... it's not a simple process to create by committee and I'm very sorry how long I'm taking with my part.  I'm just doing it the best way I can and want to have a great player's handbook for the first run of discussion.  Very soon you'll all have input!

As for the DwD site... the intent was to make a commercial site for the development company to outlet finished products.  Since it has the potential to be a portal to games of various genres, I tried to make it warm/inviting/fun and genre-less.  (thus all the warm blue, dice, and fun swirls) It was not intended to be a development site.  Please don't think it is a step backwards to have a commercial site for our finished goods.

The hosting of dorkswithdice.com is over with for two main reasons: 

  • For one, we decided having "dorks" in the name of the company rubbed a few people the wrong way (yes, I'm talking to you Terl Obar haha), though I have become quite happy with it... so I opted to change it to DwD Studios in an attempt to make everyone happy.  It won't be registered with any definition of the acronym so only us SF/FS dorks will know its origin.  If you don't like its roots, just pretend it stands for Damage with Dice... or Destructiveness with Determination, or Dice with Dots, or Driving while Drunk... whatever haha... 
  • Secondly, hosting it free of charge has been challenging.  You've not known all the trouble we've had keeping it up.  One person says they'll host it for free then something comes up... so we move it to another server... etc.  This is a hobby and I have so damned much money tied up in web hosting, server size and bandwidth costs, etc.  We've TRIED to keep the development site free.  But now that the dorkswithdice domain expired there is no point in continuing it there.
We have all the content from the site and want to put it somewhere to continue development efforts.  My original intent was to keep DwDStudios.com simply a commercial site for discussing the finished game, etc.  But we DO need a development site because the game's NOT DONE YET lol... in addition to needing help with the nearly ready Player's Handbook, we want a place for the next book to be worked on by committee and for you talented bunch of guys to have a place to develop your own ideas and supplements as well (no, FrontierSpace supplements will not be governed by us - create away!).  so yeah, Larry made this post and we're trying to figure out how to handle it.

If you guys would prefer, we COULD make DwDStudios.com also a development site.  We could add a development side of the site where projects can be listed (FS PHB being but one) and people can work on development together... but building such functionality would be time consuming (a few weeks to get it all the way we want it) and might detract from developing the game itself.  I am already criticized by the family for working on FS day and night (I do nearly nothing else but work and sleep - and right now I'm posting from work!)... adding web development to the list would certainly delay stuff even more, and you guys are already impatient for my part to be done!

So Larry's idea to host the site on another (SLOW) server (his option #3) so we can continue is a good one... but it is not meant to make you guys a side-line to the "Bill and Larry show".  If you guys don't mind I think this would be a good way to continue our efforts once the book is compiled.  However, if you guys want to just have the site up for 30 days so you can grab your content I'll understand.  Your involvement in all this has been very helpful - you're all very talented and the book draws inspiration from all of you.  I'd hate for you to all just take your stuff and go, which is what I fear if we do option #2. 

As for your criticisms of me... Yes, for the last several months I've been putting this all together for a first run... but please remember that nearly everything I'm working on is derived from content from the site.  The design documents had been up on the development site, picked at and discussed for nearly a year.  My attempts to put it all together (and btw - I've added some stuff you may all reject or redesign - but that's all part of the process) really can't be done by committee and so it's been time consuming.  Let's see you type up a 270-page book with more than 250,000 words without copying a single line of text from anywhere and build a layout from scratch in only a few months... it's a lot to do... but my plan isn't to develop it in secret.  No worries... I still want and need everyone's help!  I've just been doing a time-consuming part that would never get done if I shared every page with you as I typed it!

As an aside: Larry has really stepped up to the plate - I want everyone to understand that.  That's why so many of you see this as the "Bill and Larry show" or in some cases the "Larry show" or whatever the criticisms have been.  Since I'm so extremely bogged down with my part, Larry has taken over maintaining this site and the webzine.  We tried to include others but people just don't do their part... they either lack the passion or the time.  so he's sorta taken over where someone needed to be... filled a gap that needed filled.  It's all consuming a lot of his spare time too, so if you REALLY want to help and have the time and passion to be reliable - PLEASE offer to help him.  The webzine, working on the sites (starfrontiers.us, starfrontiersman.com), and assisting on FS (simply because he lives so nearby) is consuming his life as well.  His wife has leveled as much criticism at him as my wife has to me regarding this hobby.  You all have so much talent... it's humbling honestly!  Your contributions are so very helpful.  But in the end, we need dedicated folks with a passion to put as much effort in as Larry does.  And it's a thankless job (believe me)... for each "good job" you get - you then get someone saying "what the hell were you thinking?!" (or way worse).  So go light on Larry and offer him friendly advice and criticisms, I'd hate for him to bail on us (he nearly did once... I talked him from the ledge).



3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

-top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


CleanCutRogue's picture
CleanCutRogue
March 4, 2010 - 10:40am
SmootRK wrote:
I am just waiting to see the rules and their presentation, even if in a pre-release form.

Will it be free download?  perhaps with a Lulu Book offering for a quality hard copy?
What supplements will appear?  Perhaps a compilation of Supplements might make it to Lulu as well?

I have been holding off doing much around here, waiting for these rules to appear to start a new game with. 
Hi Smooty,

I was thinking those of us on this site would get a freebie PDF of the book... then we should put it up for sale on RPG Now and other locations, plus have a low-profit lulu offering.  I'm not interested in huge profits, but I've already got about 800 bucks invested (not to mention my time) and wouldn't mind recovering some of that cost, ya know?  Additionally, the corporate commercial site costs money to have... so we need to at least charge enough to continue the product line.

But those of us who worked on it should get a freebie PDF for sure.  Maybe a zero-profit lulu offering too.
3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

-top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
March 4, 2010 - 11:12am
I had a nice long, well reasoned comment and then something wierd happened, the page reloaded and I lost it all.  I need to get back to work and don't want to type it all over again so now you get the summary version.Smile

Great work Bill, keep it up.  (having done it a before myself, I know it's a lot of work)

I want to help, just tell me what you need done.

If your family is complaining, take a break, there's no real rush that I know of.  And family comes first.

< end summary>

I don't think my server is that slowSmile.  It's not on an OC3 connection or anything but I do have a T1 (1.5Mbs) out of my house and at least 12Mbs in.  I'm not a good judge of speed since it's right here in the room with me but even when I was in California, my sites responded as fast as anything else on the internet.  If the load was higher, it might be an issue but there aren't that many of us (If we only had that problemSmile).

So if people want the development site back up, I can host it for free. (and it might be 'slow' but you get instant tech support Smile)  I'm not planning on going away any time soon so there shouldn't be any issues in that regard.  I figure if Bill just wants to send me the database contents and the code for the web pages, I can install it on my server and bring it back on-line.  I'm more than happy to take over webmaster responsibilites (for that site or any other).  If we go that route, just tell me if you want FrontierSpace on the starfrontiers.info or newfrontiergames.com domain.  It will just end up on <domain>/frontierspace like it was on the dorkswithdice domain if that is easiest or I could give it frontierspace.<domain> as the address.  (BTW I got used to dorkswithdice for the development site.  But I much prefer dwdstudios for the "commerical" site.)

Also, I'm more than willing to take back the layout and publishing work on the magazine again.  I was more than happy doing it and then starting on issue 12 Larry just decided to do it himself and I was out of the loop.  I'll admit I was a bit surpised considering all his other time commitments but it's fine either way by me.  I have plenty to do as well.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
March 4, 2010 - 11:18am
As requested;
http://frontierspace.dreamhosters.com/

Thanks for the kudo's Bill!

Always remember that Bill and I are available via email if you have any questions (seems like everyone likes to post their rants in public)

@Tom - What is newfrontiergames.com? Something secret? (I haven't seen an announcement)

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
March 4, 2010 - 2:28pm
TerlObar wrote:
Also, I'm more than willing to take back the layout and publishing work on the magazine again.  I was more than happy doing it and then starting on issue 12 Larry just decided to do it himself and I was out of the loop.  I'll admit I was a bit surprised considering all his other time commitments but it's fine either way by me.  I have plenty to do as well.


The layout is the fun part -
  • gathering information,
  • sifting through submissions,
  • sending reminders,
  • asking for content,
  • browsing for art,
  • begging ppl for free use of their art,
  • creating line art for equipment,
  • sending more reminders.
  • etc...
is the not-fun part. I have another request from another of our members to "take over the layout"... everyone wants to do the fun part. Smile

While you were doing the layout (Gergmaster did one issue as well if you remember), I was in the background doing all the not-fun stuff. Layout is the last step of the long arduous process.

A couple reasons why I "just took over", 1.) the blatant slam on myself in public by a Star Frontiersman Staff member (that hurt) and 2.) the quality of the webzine.

I've asked for help, even had some volunteers but unfortunately it ends up the same - more desire to help than desire to see it through.

Thank you for stepping up to the plate while I was about to jump over the ledge! And Bill for saving me!
(I don't think I ever thanked you in public).



TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
March 4, 2010 - 2:35pm
w00t wrote:

@Tom - What is newfrontiergames.com? Something secret? (I haven't seen an announcement)

It's not anything, just a domain I have.  I registered it right around the same time you guys registered dorkswithdice.  I figured I'd use it for my computer game if nothing else.  There hasn't been an announcement because there isn't anything there.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

Will's picture
Will
March 4, 2010 - 5:17pm
Larry the Frickin' Martyr wrote:
1.) the blatant slam on myself in public by a Star Frontiersman Staff member (that hurt) and 2.) the quality of the webzine.


Boo hoo hoo. If you can't stand criticism, go home to momma, boy.


"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

jedion357's picture
jedion357
March 4, 2010 - 5:51pm
Will wrote:


Boo hoo hoo. If you can't stand criticism, go home to momma, boy.




Dude, why do you have to make it so personal?
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
March 4, 2010 - 6:01pm
I appreciate the efforts of Bill, Woot, and Terl particularly and thought I'd give a public thank you, that is not to say others are not worthy of praise it just that I'm more cognizant of their efforts and very appreciative.

Participation in this community is on voluntary basis and I appreciate everyone who has contributed. I would encourage us all to try to be civil even if we have to agree to disagree. Nastiness isn't going to serve any purpose but the venting of spleen.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Will's picture
Will
March 5, 2010 - 2:18am
jedi wrote:
Dude, why do you have to make it so personal?

It isn't personal. I just don't appreciate people insulting my intelligence by playing victim when they get called out over bad behavior.

jedi wrote:
I would encourage us all to try to be civil even if we have to agree to disagree. Nastiness isn't going to serve any purpose but the venting of spleen.

Neither will spineless agreement.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
March 5, 2010 - 4:28pm
I have to agree that you are being too harsh Will. No one is trying to attack you here we are all just expressing our opinions about how things are going with the site. Bill and Larry carry an enormous load running these programs and have produced the best product available anywhere. I do feel the new site is not on the same level as the old one and possibly a step backward. However, I recognize that when our community leadership is being over worked something has to give. I feel we should express our concerns about the new site but agree with Jedion that nastiness is even more counter productive then disagreement. We can take the "I call it as I see it" terse-ness that is so pervasive in our culture already or we can support this great community and encourage changes when we find the group heading in a direction we don't want.

Will's picture
Will
March 6, 2010 - 1:39am
Arizona wrote:
Bill and Larry carry an enormous load.

They spread an enormous load, all right.

But, hey, if blind, cow-like acceptance is the same as support, then, by all means, bring on the support, bring it on, til it all comes crashing down like a stinking load of week-old garbage.

And, I really don't give a damn if you or anyone else thinks I'm being too harsh.

What's pervasive in our culture is two-faced people who are too willing to go along, and too afraid to say what everyone knows is the truth. 

Hey, the Emperor's buck-naked and the whole damn frickin' Empire's gone buck wild, but let's not say anything, let's not rock the boat, by all means, let our fearless leaders piss in our faces and call it rain, because, they're so damn great, and doing such a fine job, and if we keep telling ourselves this crap enough times, we might actually believe, and even if we don't, well, it's a hell of a lot better than actually growing a f*king spine.

Or maybe, you all just rather sit back and call women bitches, especially the woman who once may have headed TSR 20 years ago, because, hey, while we don't ever want our kids seeing people take the Lord's name in vain in their sigs, we don't mind them learning a little misogyny along the way.

Good night and good luck.  

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

jedion357's picture
jedion357
March 6, 2010 - 7:27am
Will wrote:
They spread an enormous load, all right.

But, hey, if blind, cow-like acceptance is the same as support, then, by all means, bring on the support, bring it on, til it all comes crashing down like a stinking load of week-old garbage.

And, I really don't give a damn if you or anyone else thinks I'm being too harsh.

What's pervasive in our culture is two-faced people who are too willing to go along, and too afraid to say what everyone knows is the truth. 

Hey, the Emperor's buck-naked and the whole damn frickin' Empire's gone buck wild, but let's not say anything, let's not rock the boat, by all means, let our fearless leaders piss in our faces and call it rain, because, they're so damn great, and doing such a fine job, and if we keep telling ourselves this crap enough times, we might actually believe, and even if we don't, well, it's a hell of a lot better than actually growing a f*king spine.

Or maybe, you all just rather sit back and call women bitches, especially the woman who once may have headed TSR 20 years ago, because, hey, while we don't ever want our kids seeing people take the Lord's name in vain in their sigs, we don't mind them learning a little misogyny along the way.

Good night and good luck.  


Wow- I'm not even sure understand some of the references you alluded to.

So I'll confine my response to a limited portion of your comment

Star Frontiers is a great game but the game is nothing without people to champion it.
We have a volunteer based revival of the game.

In any enterprise run by and kept going by volunteers you cant have the same expectations as in an orginization with paid employees. If some one donates their time to the effort a good manager and even a lowly supporter needs to recognize that they gave freely when they could have been somewhere else; fishing or even doing something that would pay them for their time.

The first rule of Leadership / management is Praise in Public and reprimand in private. (yeah I'm breaking it right now but this has become a very public rant)
I love the game and thus I appreciate anyone who invest time into it and helps carry the torch for the revival. That means a editor keeping new editions of the zine in Print; A game master running a game, a web master keeping a site and forums running, artist rendering new images of ships or what not; a player who post prolificly in an on line game. None of them have to do what they do and having been around a few volunteer run movements I know its generally a good idea to tell people that you recognize their efforts and appreciate them. (cause when they loose heart and leave and their load falls to someone else).

Its about simply saying thank you to someone who has done something that benefits you.

It doesn't mean that I think the people involve are Jesus Christ and can walk in vacuum without a space suit. They're not and their sh*t stinks as much as your's and mine. Bill and Larry are no where near the autocratic tyrants you seem to suggest- I've seen that sort in another on line community where the site owner jumps all over posts and people to protect the integrity of the site and for the good of the community. I even had my loggin locked out for a few months because I wouldn't do something he decided had to be done in a specified time. (thus I dont spend my time there and the SF community is stuck with me)

Despite everything time you post something that makes me wonder, "Is he for real or is this just him trying to make waves just for fun?" I still like you, Will. I'm sorry to see that you've reached this point.

Good Luck to you
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Will's picture
Will
March 6, 2010 - 9:53am
I ain't going nowhere. If Larry wants me gone, he's gonna have to kick me himself, I'm not running off and crying to mommy like little C.J.

I'm very much for real.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

CleanCutRogue's picture
CleanCutRogue
March 6, 2010 - 11:13am
*sigh*

I think discussions like this aren't productive.  The community is too small and the topic too light (it's a game) to warrant any level of stress on anyone's part.  I don't know why it happens, but it seems like any site with a social element is doomed to have this kind of nastiness.  It's total nonsense and I want it to stop.  Thank you in advance.

Okay... Now... back to the original post/discussion.

Larry's putting up the site on another server (the same server he hosts starfrontiers.us on, I believe), and this should serve our development needs well.  It was my opinion and mine alone (Larry had doubts initially) to have a commercial site that has no genre associated with it that is separate from development.  But I can be, and have been, wrong.  I have no illusions that my idea is the best idea... never have.  If you all think it's a bad idea - I'm listening to advice.

The last thing I want to do is step backwards unless that step is followed by several steps forward, ya know?  But maybe I haven't explained the purpose of the commercial site well enough.

My original idea for the commercial site: have dwdstudios.com/frontierspace as its own area, which includes advertisements for new products in the line, vehicle creation, robot creation, weapon and defense creation, equipment creation, race creation, creature creation, star system creation, planetary creation, free download areas, forums for discussion and house rules and fan development of material, etc.  Right now I just have the main site up - I didn't spend too much time on it yet.  If you'd like a preview of one of the tools I HAVE worked on: go check out dwdstudios.com/vehicle -- it's just the beginning of a generator to make vehicles in accordance with the fs rules - work-in-progress (never made it pretty... just made it somewhat functional).  Later, if/when other products are published, each will have its own area like that shown above.  dwdstudios/divineinspiration, for instance.  or dwdstudios/spacewarp or whatever

but I can be convinced to change my mind.  If you think it's best to mimic all the core development functionality of our development site - speak now.  But keep in mind, if this ever becomes a viable product line we don't want everyone to have free access to our hard work and steal it.



but if you believe the new site is a step backwards purely in theming - I'm no graphic artist and if you come up with better art for me to use in the theming (take screenshots and see what you can manipulate/change and send me the files) I'll see what I can do!!  :-)

3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

-top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
March 6, 2010 - 12:55pm
It's my opinion that we should have a "commerical" site as well, somewhere to advertise, publicize and get feedback from the larger community that is unassociated with the development side of things.  I agree with you completely.  Even to the point that I have my own (newfrontiergames.com) that I planned to use some day for this or other things.  I registered it with that intent the same time dorkswithdice was resgistered, I just haven't done anything with it.  I also agree that there needs to be a separate, private development site so it's good to see the Frontierspace dev site back up (and it should stay closed and unadvertised).

I think they way you are thinking of taking it sounds good to me and is along the lines of what I'd do as well.  I'm assuming the new site is in Drupal like the last two.  I guess I need to hunker down and learn it so I can help out as needed on the web side.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
March 7, 2010 - 6:29pm
@ Will: Wow, really is all of this necessary? What is the point in attacking all of these people? If things are really that bad here, if your presumptions are right on the money... then your time, efforts, and energy are best spent elsewhere. I for one have really enjoyed the work you have done at FS and appreciated our collaboration on the Necrosians and hope you would see the overall good the community is accomplishing.

@ Bill: In my opinion I think we should not have Star Frontiers Stuff on the DWD site. The reason being is that we have a SF development and magazine site already. I know that the Frontiersman is a DWD product but it already has its own site so shouldnt the new site focus more on the FS stuff with maybe some promotional art (As we have some stuff to choose from, LOL). IT just doesnt seem like the DWD site has much to do at this time with our Flag Ship product. It would be good to see more content to excite people about the products. I would like to see some kind of development area as there is no place for me to submit art and articles and get feedback. The feedback is very essential because it tells me which projects are worth pursuing and which ones are not. I dont have a lot of time so the feed back from a development site lets know if what i am working on is a hit or a miss. It would be very frustrating to spend 60 hours on series of art or articles just to find out after submitting that they just dont fit into the game.

Ascent's picture
Ascent
March 9, 2010 - 5:36pm
Will needs to be kicked. Simple as that. He refuses to play nice and has been seeking to form a coup for the last several months. (How's that going, by the way?)

It's obvious that Will is a massive dick with some serious stuff going on in the attic, who gets sore over extremely minor things, so it will be easier for everyone to just ignore everything he says as having absolutely no credibility. In my mind, (that means, my opinion, not professional, though) his behavior smacks of a wacko. But if he starts making everyone upitty, then it's time for him to go.

Bill, keep on keeping on. What you're experiencing is simply what I experienced. Everyone seems to think that "ownership" means that they own the document top to bottom. They don't seem to understand that this was your project from the getgo and your letting them in on it was a privilege of respect and friendship.
What everyone needs to understand is that their "ownership" in this project is like "ownership" entitled by stock in a company. When they own stock in a company, they have a small piece of the company. It does not entitle them to executive board meetings. It does not entitle them to be able to make demands and expect to be obeyed as if they're the boss. It does not entitle them to expect that any of their ideas will be used. It does not entitle them to lord it over anyone within the company. They have no managerial control.

This is Bill's project, people. Remember that. The fact that he chose to share its development with you was his choice and it is still his choice to back out if everyone starts pressuring him as if it's not his project. If you want to be part of Bill's project, then sit still and wait patiently for the next phase or take a hike. He can run this show how he likes. It's his show, not yours. Don't like it? There's the door. Don't let it crack your skull on the way out.
View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write.
"It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi
"That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi
Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild)

umungus's picture
umungus
March 10, 2010 - 9:23pm
I think Will is being harsh also. I guess I dont keep up on the current site gossip. I dont know what he is so bent about.... I think you should ease up on Larry.
He isn't perfect like the rest of us but we should still try to tolerate him. Wink 

Seriously  'Ascent' I am getting tired of you calling someone dick or asshole and then launching into a self serving rant. Not cool either. If you cant handle me saying that I guess I need to be 'kicked' too.






At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy......


SmootRK's picture
SmootRK
March 12, 2010 - 9:18am
These kinds of conversations keep me from fully participating around here.  I try to read up and keep engaged but these things really turn me off.

Cheers - I hope you all get your differences ironed out.
<insert witty comment here>

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
March 12, 2010 - 9:59am
It's time for me to speak up when I feel comments are directed at the community - others do a good job of defending me and I'm so very grateful for that. (I don't deserve it so I'll try to suck less from now on! but will remain annoying so you'll just have to tolerate me.)

It's one person with a "difference" and some other's unnecessary comments which spoil the site. Fortunately some of the issues have been handled behind the scenes so as not to keep the subject matter alive. I wish everything was done in private. :-(

We have great people here (some who frequent other SF sites) and I'm staying engaged with them. Smile While crafting the Star Frontiersman and reading your post I'm blown away by the talented people here. You'll notice all troublemakers eventually leave the site - for us that have a passion for the game we love we'll stick it out!

Give me a "w"
Give me a "0"
Give me a "0"
Give me a "t"

What's that spell?

Suck Less Bro!

HUG TIME !

jedion357's picture
jedion357
March 12, 2010 - 8:15pm
SmootRK wrote:
These kinds of conversations keep me from fully participating around here.  I try to read up and keep engaged but these things really turn me off.

Cheers - I hope you all get your differences ironed out.


Dude elements of the thread were a bit abrasive but its just one thread. Lots of other good stuff on the site.
Its like eating meat some times you just carve off the chunks of meat and go with that and other times, if you have the inclination you'll pick through the bones looking for little bits. I'd suggest just carve off the good chunks and not bother with the Open Discussion and Web site discussion folders of the forum which is where this sort of "fun" tends to happen - Game Talk, and rules discussion and the projects have so much going on I often wonder how people have the energy for these when they become rants but hey different spoke for different blokes.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

elpotof's picture
elpotof
March 12, 2010 - 10:21pm
wow, what did i miss...

...I was having a good informative read over DwD when it all got 'silly'. I hope the air is cleared now.

Cup of tea anyone?

Ascent's picture
Ascent
March 13, 2010 - 12:58pm

Cleared. Sorry for the mess guys. Sometimes things need to be said. But yes, I can work a little harder to keep it behind the scenes. Besides, we won't be being bothered by anymore unnecessary rants against Larry.

Umungus. No offense taken. I understand your viewpoint. It's easy to accept coming from someone who doesn't cause trouble every 5 minutes. Not to worry. I may not be on your love list, but you're still on mine, along with everyone in that other political conversation (except you know who).


I've been a bit abrasive lately, but it shouldn't keep up. It was one other thread that turned to a discussion of one of the people on my top 10 most hated list, and the other person on that list was actually participating there and in this thread. I will try to be a kindler, gentler Ascent. Smile

View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write.
"It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi
"That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi
Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild)

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
March 14, 2010 - 3:36am
You have a top ten list? Why be biased...I hate everybody Foot in mouth


classic Carlin line
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website