WOTC bail on Star Wars

Scarecrow's picture
Scarecrow
January 29, 2010 - 2:18am
Wizards of the Coast have decided not to renew their Star Wars license:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/22320345/Wizards_of_the_Coast_announcement

Maybe they'll be looking to replace it with another Sci-Fi setting. Maybe one that they own the rights to...

Crow
Wayne Peters
Senior Artist
Blitz Games, Leamington
Comments:

Ascent's picture
Ascent
February 8, 2010 - 3:44pm
Will wrote:
CJ wrote:
Bush left us in a pile of shit and you expect his replacement to clean it up like cleaning a bathroom sink?

No, I don't.

After all, you know what they say about wishing with one hand and urinating in the other.

I do expect him, the media, and the rest of that rogue's gallery we, the people, have allowed to take over their cognitive processes to lie like an SOB come 2012, tell us the Emperor's wearing Armani when he's really buckazz naked and the rest of us to smoke it up like it was crystal meth down by the schoolyard.

A lot of hands over the last thirty years were involved in wrecking the economy, and,four of those hands belong to you and me, brother. We put these clowns in office, we wanted to believe them when they preached the Gospel of the Greed, the Excess and the Holy Materialism, a-men, we wanted to believe we actually wanted a way out of the shambles we created, we wanted to believe these liars when they said they would change things, and we wanted to point fingers at anyone we could, just to avoid the responsibility for cleaning up our own damn frickin' mess.

'Nuff said, Nick Fury.

  
30 years? Where have you been? Here in the U.S. things were quite good with Clinton. Things were quite shitty before he was elected. Then our economy was the best it had ever been when he left. Then 9/11 happened and Bush crapped his pants and turned the economy into a free-for-all. He said he would turn back the policies he made after 2 years, as they were only meant to recover the economy, but look, he never did and the economy went into freefall because of it. The economy has only been bad for the last 5 years, and only because of Bush.
View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write.
"It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi
"That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi
Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild)

Ascent's picture
Ascent
February 8, 2010 - 4:28pm

Will wrote:
Translation: You want to run the whole show and get everyone doing things your way and to hell with what anyone else has to say.
Will, if I may say, you are an ass.

Get over it. Your article was rejected. Suck it up. Larry is operating the magazine no different than Bill did. Start your own magazine if you want, but I think you'll find that no one cares to contribute to it. It's been tried by far better men than you.

I'm sick and tired of your trashing Larry with your petty, childish tripe, and judging by the fact that you are the only one complaining and others are playing you down, it shows that you're utterly fucking alone. You wanted to trash me in your little article, and the magazine's editor wouldn't allow it. If you want to trash talk someone, look in the mirror. You're a jackass. Get over yourself.

This all started from the moment you first entered the community and started shitting on newer members for something so petty as repeating a question that had already been asked 3 months previous, and when I called you on it, you started threatening lawsuits, as if you actually had a case. Then when all your words ended up mere wind, you tried to bash me, a year later I might add, with your childish little article. Then when Larry rejected your little article, you started bashing Larry. You're pathetic. And I personally question your sanity for all the trouble you're causing for no other reason than hurt pride. Suck it up man. You're bringing nothing but poison to the community with your trash talk.

View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write.
"It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi
"That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi
Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild)

Ascent's picture
Ascent
February 8, 2010 - 4:40pm
TerlObar wrote:
Chill, Will.

Although publishing through an outfit with "dorks" in it's name is a bit of a turn off for me. Smile  Seems very unprofessional.
I like the "Dorks with Dice" concept. While it seems to perpetuate the stereotype, I see it as poking fun at the industry's past and pushing past it. All the same, sure there are better names, but it carries with it a statement of it being a grass roots project, instead of some company like Wizards of the Coast.

That said, as long as no money is made with it, I'm all for it. If any money is made, there might be some real harrowing legal issues that could come back and bite them in the butt real hard. Even the magazine prints could be considered over the line despite no money being made.
View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write.
"It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi
"That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi
Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild)

Sam's picture
Sam
February 8, 2010 - 7:24pm

Is this an MSNBC website or is it a site devoted to cool science fiction gaming. Just curious?


jedion357's picture
jedion357
February 8, 2010 - 11:45pm
Sam wrote:

Is this an MSNBC website or is it a site devoted to cool science fiction gaming. Just curious?



Honestly Sam I chuckled at your comment but this thread is in the open discussion folder so its fair game for politics, religion and other rants - more or less (I think there is a point where you can go to far and that may be what you're getting at but as close as I would judge this thread to have come to that line I would say it hasn't crossed it but its deffinetly at the line).



I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
February 9, 2010 - 1:09am
I have to chime in on this for a moment....

No one has the right to disrespect Larry.

If you want to, then you need to compare what you have done for this game, apples-to-apples, versus what Larry has done for this game.

Larry has done a MAGNIFICENT job on the zine.  Look at the sheer quality and professionalism of the issues!  The editing, the tireless dedication...  Come on.

Yes, there have been problems.  And yet there is Larry, emailing for new submissions, asking for edits and clarification, seeking to maintain excellence.

If you want to blame someone for a late issueance, blame ME.  Yes, Imperial Lord promised Larry another Core Four article and I did not submit until last week, probably three months after I said I would.  Granted, I am in school getting my Masters in History, and that is my lame excuse, but I should not have told him that I could have produced the article and then not come through.  My fault.  I apologize sincerely for that.

Now, how often does Larry deal with that with other authors of the zine???  I would guess quite a great deal.  And yet he soldiers on, and puts out solid product.

Larry's job is difficult.  It is also thankless.  We all need to recognize and respect someone who is doing his very best, for FREE, and represent accordingly.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
February 9, 2010 - 5:44am
I remember when I first joined this site such tangent-topic discussions would either get quelled or retitled as its "hijacked" topic. While I try not to get in too deep with discussions on religion or politics or gun control or SF vs D&D or any of the other "hot button" topics, I do enjoy them when they can be done so in a civil manner. So I for one am thankful for having such freedom of expression on this forum.

So a big kudos to Larry for letting us act like children in that regard Wink and one more for his time and effort behind this site and the SF-Man (along with TerlObar and any/everyone else behind the scenes at SF-Man, from those submitting stuff to those putting it together and getting it out there on the web). Cool  As far as I'm concerned, when the next issue gets out, it gets out. I barely have enough time to digest an issue before the next one gets downloaded...and being on dial up, that's time I use to catch up on what I haven't read in the last ish  Foot in mouth

And the offer is always open to anyone and everyone who wants to get together for a "Shack Frontiers Fest" (just don't let Obama know you're coming here, he seems to have something against the Vegas economy LOL)...some of y'all have seen that hospitality suite I can reserve. Perfect for a large group that wants to play SF well into the wee hours of the morning, until the last person succumbs to unconciousness.

I'm placing 3 to 1 odds that'd be me... Money mouth Tongue out
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Sam's picture
Sam
February 9, 2010 - 9:13am

Okay, fair enough. Rant away. Its a shame we don't have the time to fact check some of these absurd claims though.


jedion357's picture
jedion357
February 9, 2010 - 9:49am
Sam wrote:

Okay, fair enough. Rant away. Its a shame we don't have the time to fact check some of these absurd claims though.



I for one never fact check in the middle of the game; just push on and act like I know what I'm doing and keep the fun happenning.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Sam's picture
Sam
February 9, 2010 - 10:09am
That is a wise policy, jedi. I will watch the game in progress

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
February 9, 2010 - 2:17pm
Sadly there are few places where facts can be checked. The media gave up on having a factual agenda long ago. Wikipedia is more reliable these days...
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Ascent's picture
Ascent
February 10, 2010 - 4:53pm
That issue of turning back his policy two years later is something I remember because I knew what it would end up in if he didn't. I'm not saying Bush's idea was entirely bad for the short term (that 2 years), but he didn't turn back the policies, and as he admitted in his last public address, those policies crashed the economy. If you don't remember him saying that, then find a copy of the speech somewhere. When you read between the lines, you'll see it as plain as day. He never admitted he was responsible, and he definitely didn't apologize, but he addressed the policies he made as a result of 9/11 and highlighted the damage they did to the economy. These policies are regarding lifting restrictions on bank lending policies and the APR cap, as well as lifting a slew of housing market policies and some stock market policies that were originally put into place as a result of black friday/monday (from '87?).

It's all in the speech if anyone does want to research it. Also review his first public address after 9/11 in which he talks about putting those policies into place.

Anyway, the major point for all that was that the big boss man speaking on behalf of WOTC was very likely speaking truthfully. There is nothing he said that should make me not believe his words, and the fact that he gave us fair warning gives me every reason to believe what he said concerning the reason for its being canceled. It was the economy, plain and simple.

To whoever's interested in that part of the discussion, if you don't believe the economy is crap now as opposed to five years ago, then I suggest reviewing your local newspaper for the past five years. No, for the last 8 years. Have you already forgotten that Clinton induced the first economic surplus since FDR? Or maybe you forgot that you could actually afford gas under Clinton? In fact, on those lines, perhaps you don't remember Clinton putting a cap on gas prices one time when a sudden cost surge occurred? Bush refused to put a cap on gas prices and thus the gas companies, which I remind you, Bush is an oil barron and the son of an oil barron, were completely out of control until Bush left office. Perhaps you didn't keep up with the stock market freefall that set the stock market back nearly 15 years?

Finally, just a personal request, but this stuff about Lucas being some money-mad license dictator has gotten way out of hand. I've been watching it for a long time now. I've been watching speculation turn into pseudo-facts concerning it, and it's irritating. Lucas has not handled his affairs unfairly. West End Games lost the licenses because it was never a big company. It was a privately owned business in which the owner did not manage the property well. WOTC hasn't published near as much as WEG did (have you seen the sheer number of SWRPG books WEG published each year? WOTC would blush at the mention. OMG! If you want to talk about a product-whore, WEG was it!). Lucas has handled his affairs properly. Other than a few misplaced lawsuits, Lucasfilm, LTD. is not a monster. They are simply trying to control their interests. If you knew how many times people try to screw Lucus each year, I think you could forgive the occasional mistake in judgment on his part.

As for PT vs. OT,  can we really say that OT is better than PT? Us old timers grew up with OT and thus love it for nostalgia's sake as much as quality. However, when you ask everyone that has grown up with PT (16 and under at the time AOTC came out, meaning 27 and under now), you will find that the sheer majority of them think that the PT is better, and when you analyze it, there is reason to understand this. Yes, none of the PT had the slam of ESB, but what can you expect? There were no secrets for the PT to reveal. It only had to play out what had been established in the OT. But quality-wise, effects-wise, PT is indeed superior. Story-wise, sure, it's quite different, but I can't say it was worse. The editing of the PT is the only thing I've really had a problem with. And the other week, my mind finally distanced itself from my previous prejudices and looked at the trilogy objectively. I now consider ROTS second to ESB. Unlike others of my generatiion, when I watched ROTS (after standing up in middle of the theater and telling a teenage mouth to "shut the fuck up and let us all watch the damn movie"; he was incidentally quiet as a mouse through the rest of the movie,) I was actually quite impressed with the flavor and impact of the movie. After time, I've actually come to appreciate the PT, particularly AOTC and ROTS more than previously, and I view the Phantom Menace as an EU movie that far surpasses any other EU work, even if not quite up to specs to the other movies, it is actually not that far behind ANH. Good enough, I say.

That said, bang away. 
View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write.
"It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi
"That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi
Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild)

Sam's picture
Sam
February 10, 2010 - 8:01pm
Much more well written and articulated then "Bush crapped his pants."

However, I would also point out, though, that the Clinton budget surplus came about because a Republican congress held his feet to the fire to get the budget in line starting in 1994. Along those lines, Democrats have controlled congress, and thus the budget procecss (and financial oversight committees) since 2006, the last two years of Bush's term. And didn't Bush Sr. have a Democratic congress (not sure, but I would imagine he did)? All said, both parties led us here, both parties have enough blame between them to let any further argument about who is more responsible for this or that an exercise in splitting hairs.

But I'd be happy to leave this as a simply agree to disagree thing and move on.

My personal feeling, backed up by a modicum of research and a decent bit of life experience, would be that WOTC wouldn't do SF justice and that if there would be any true, QUALITY revival of SF it would be in the hands of an indie/start up game company. If WOTC handles it, it will die off again faster then it did the first time - the setting is great, the ystem will kill it.

As for Lucas -- Han Solo shot first. What the heck, if blasters can be reflected by frakking water glasses why the hell would you use them?

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
February 10, 2010 - 11:44pm
I'd just like to know when it will "stop being Bush's fault."

$800 billion was passed for economic stimulus last spring, loaded to the gunwalls with earmarks and pork...the latter of which was blamed on a guy that had been out of office for several months by the very guy whose pen signed it into law rather than assigning blame upon the majority of House and Senate signers who didn't even bother to read the bill. 

A pair of U.S. automakers, who recieved a major chunk of that money, stayed in business for a few more months and are now managed under Uncle Sam, who further discouraged American product purchases by offering us $4500 to trade in our good running vehicles for replacements that use just a little less gas and consequently destroying those serviceable trade-ins that could have been sold to the rest of the Americans that didn't qualify for the CARS program or let alone credit...all of which served to help Toyota and Honda empty their U.S. warehouses rather than encourage any of the three domstic makers to turn a single wrench on their assembly lines. Not sure how this is Bush's fault, but I'm sure someone can step up and claim that one too.  

In one year, tax & spend, tax & spend, tax & spend...the defecit quadrupled. But that's okay, we have someone in a prior administration to blame for that too.

Closing Gitmo/trying known terrorists as civilians, muslim extremist shoots unarmed troops at Fort Hood (troops who were disarmed in the mid to late 1990s), gate crashers at the White House waltzing right up to the Commander in Chief to shake his hand, and a Nigerian who soaks himself in explosive and sets himself on fire inside an airplane...and the system works. Napalotino (sp?) should either step down or Obama should grow a pair and fire that slacker, because Al Quaida is ripe for attacking us in the next six months (as they have publicly declared) and will do so with extreme ease. Never would have happened under the other guy's watch, but he'll somehow get blamed for it.

Finally why, and someone really needs to explain this one to me because it's a real stumper, has NOBODY BITCHED ONCE ABOUT THE CONTINUED DISPATCHING AND DEATH OF AMERICAN TROOPS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN SINCE JANUARY 20, 2009?!? We didn't hear enough about that prior to 1/20/09 but now the silence is even more deafening. Rest assured, if there was anyone to step up and gripe, they'll blame someone besides the Nobel Peace Prize recipient for that one too.

It's well past time to stop assigning blame and actually start addressing the problems, yet people wonder how the impossible happened in the blueist of blue states: a Republican (gasp, there's a dirty word) landing in the Kennedys' seat...
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
February 11, 2010 - 8:59am
@ Shadow: LOL- if a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to hear it is it still Bushe's fault?

If anyone had done any research on OBama they would have known that his career in IL was built on taking credit for others work and not actually doing anything himself. That he was know as a Bill Jacker and that with the aid of the guy who could reassign a bill he would get bills reassigned to him after someone else had done 90% of the work on it so that he'd be the "sponor" who saw it signed. Lots of his colleges there were un happy about it but the machine politics had the fix in to position him to run for national office. Just dont expect too much out of him, He'll take credit for what goes right and the blame for what goes wrong will go someplace else.

Concerning the Bluest state in the Union of which I have the unfortunate pleasure to reside in;
I'll let you in on a secret- it was the health care issue that got Brown elected. and none of the talking heads in the media mention the fact that MA supposedly has health coverage for everyone in connection with the wonderment of Brown taking the Senate seat. You see our enlightened, brilliant politicians passed a law that said everyone had to have health insurance. There we passed the law done, Gee that was easy. Oh but how do you make it happen? Well if you dont go get health insurance we'll just keep your tax return hows that?
To be fair the state runs like 5 different health plans with different names but you can call them all Mass Health. and since I was still out of work from my injuries I went to apply for Mass health for my family.I had to produce 2 picture IDs and other supporting documents to PROVE I was an American and jump through hoops to get covered but when it came to my wife, who never even set foot in the office, nor was seen nor signed anything, but once I answered that she wasn't an American they didn't need to hear anymore. She was approved and covered- just like that and she came here illegally though she has the green card now. Concerning my daughters who only have birth certificates I had to sign affidavits under penalty of purjury and each one had to be signed with 3 signatures!

Every year I have the BS of refiling paper work for myself and my daughters but the wife no problem cause she's not an American and we all know that you cant trust Americans. Naturally the crap with the health coverage only applies to working stiffs not to the homeless they still get care just like they did before the law passed but we had to have this law because...well I cant really say why we had to have it but I'm sure the BS reason that was given is probably just that BS.

But anyway we, In MA have this wonderful thing called mandated health care and it was obvious that the president was looking to force something even more extreme down the throats of the whole county so naturally as the left wing liberal intellectual egg heads that we are in MA we applauded this? No the people of MA said hell no and gave you all a gift of breathing space with a senator who wont go along with it for now. Naturally they will continue to look for ways to push the socialist agenda but for now you all have this gift from the people of MA...

..So say thank you.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Inigo Montoya's picture
Inigo Montoya
February 11, 2010 - 1:45pm

Thank you.


Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
February 11, 2010 - 4:06pm
Thank you +1

LOL @ "Mass Health" I was aware that MA was against the bill (actually, so was every other state...I'll get to that in a bit), just no idea about any history behind it.

Add to that bit of little known fact (amazing again how the media failed to divulge any of that...I think I said that earlier about the media), there wasn't a State in the Union that approved the health care bill. This is something the media DID manage to divulge, along with all the tea parties and other protests...every State had a majority representation against it...yet Congress still pushed it through.

Our very own Harry Reid (I'm in NV, that's Nevada, not envy...) made sure it would go through, adding all sorts of "pork" into the bill so every other state's senators etc would benefit somehow if it passed. And Reid wonders why his ratings are so low that every poll showing any possible candidate that runs against him next year has him losing.

I'm just glad this band of "let's do what we want regardless of what those who voted us in want" group of elected officials finally got railroaded, that wake-up call was long overdue (and yes, that trend does extend back before the Obama administration too). I'm guessing 2010 will be another wake-up call, at least for Runaway Harry and anyone else looking to get re-elected.

And that would be the kind of "change" I welcome!
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
February 11, 2010 - 4:33pm
Shadow Shack wrote:

And Reid wonders why his ratings are so low that every poll showing any possible candidate that runs against him next year has him losing.


Any possible candidate?  Smile

+1 vote

Shadow Shack For Senate in 2010!

Foot in mouth
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My blog - Expanding Frontier
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

umungus's picture
umungus
February 11, 2010 - 8:13pm
AS, OT,ROTS, ESB, PT, AOTC , ROTS, EU, ANH, FDR. That's a lotta fukn acronyms....

I cannot approve your post.

At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy......


Ascent's picture
Ascent
February 16, 2010 - 4:23pm
Good stuff.

Still, Bush did it. And every house of politicians have been fudging since 1995.

By the way, the Republicans were filibustering everything Clinton put forth, until Clinton put his foot down and started vetoing everything they sent his way. The Republican majority at that time were being bitches because they didn't like Clinton. Clinton finally won the standoff by ordering the house to stand down. THAT is why we ended up with the surplus a year later. That's how I remember it.

Healthcare, unresolved during Bush's entire presidency. Banks and brokers raping the economy for easy bucks during Bush's entire country. Wow, great job. Yeah, Bush isn't at fault. It was definitely the new guy's fualt. Innocent News flash!: The economy went south BEFORE Bush left office and because Bush vetoed most of the stuff coming out of the Democratic majority more than most other presidents.

Plenty of blame to go around, indeed. But if there's a face to put to it, it's Bush. I'll add Obama's face to it if he doesn't turn the economy around by the end of his four year term.
View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write.
"It's yo' mama!" —Wicket W. Warrick, Star Wars Ep. VI: Return of the Jedi
"That guy's wise." —Logray, Star Wars Ep.VI: Return of the Jedi
Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? - Felicia Day (The Guild)

Sam's picture
Sam
February 16, 2010 - 8:52pm
I'd rather see the economy turn around then either political party score points or votes. Too many people are suffering. And in that, BOTH parties have plenty of blame. Everything is held up to a political/vote getting score card. Closed door health care negotiations, sweetheart deals to unions, kickbacks to politicians who play ball... and that is just President Obama on Health Care. Change you can count on... . His other initiatives (Cap and Tax, er, I mean Cap and Trade), thankfully stalled (another thank you, Jedi), are even more laden with corruption and waste.

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
February 16, 2010 - 8:37pm
jedion357 wrote:
@  No the people of MA said hell no and gave you all a gift of breathing space with a senator who wont go along with it for now. Naturally they will continue to look for ways to push the socialist agenda but for now you all have this gift from the people of MA...

..So say thank you.



Yes, thank you.  And GO RED SOX!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
February 16, 2010 - 9:03pm
Imperial Lord wrote:
And GO RED SOX!


Ya know with a handle like yours I would have thought you'd be part of the evil empire.

Whats really funny is since the election of Brown there has been some really nasty commentary referrencing Brown, republicans and all the "thugs" who voted for him- (if you dont agree with me you're a thug, nazi or other- I was actually called a nazi on election day by someone who didn't bother to vote for having the audacity to not vote for the DEm.)

It always amuses me when people start name calling and vugarity cause it means they have nothing substantive to say on the issue or that they realize they're in the wrong but dont want to admit it. I actually enjoy being told F*** you.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
February 16, 2010 - 9:28pm

I'm not going to stand here and say Bush doesn't deserve any of the blame. I'm not going to say he didn't earn it.

But if we're just going to continue blaming him while doing NOTHING to resolve the issues, as has been done for the past year since Bush left office, then nothing will continue to get done about it. There's no excuse for this behavior, not when the Democratic party had a massive majority presense for that year. Yet they still managed to do nothing but blame Bush for all the current woes (along with creating a lengthy series of their own woes).

Honestly, I could care less who resolves the issue. I just want to see it get resolved. If Obama/Pelosi/Reid/anyone else can pull it off, good for them and I'll support that. But if Obama/Pelosi/Reid/everyone else continues to point the finger of blame while getting nothing passed amongst their own party (like that health care bill...even if you were amongst the minority who supported it, why couldn't they have gotten it passed? Because they were too busy sitting on their hands and pointing fingers, until someone steps in with the stones to represent their constituents and block the vote), shame on them and nix them all, because we really can't afford any more future terms with them under that premise.

Watching the Dow drop everytime someone in the White House opens their mouth ought to be a clue that they're doing something wrong about the economy. When respected economists list reasons why a program won't work (and say nothing that actually supports it), DON'T PUSH IT THROUGH!!!


It's long past time for finger pointing. Everything that happened this past year happened under someone else's watch. It's also long past time to start addressing the issues. Success won't be garnered by starting the job in the second half of a term. Re-election is only possible by starting in the first half. If this second year yields another series of do-nothing finger-pointing, that's it...game over, for all of us.

I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
February 16, 2010 - 9:30pm
jedion357" wrote:
I actually enjoy being told F*** you.


In a battle of wits, " F*** you " means you've run out of ammunition and you are now unarmed...
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
February 17, 2010 - 12:18pm
Shadow Shack wrote:
jedion357" wrote:
I actually enjoy being told F*** you.


In a battle of wits, " F*** you " means you've run out of ammunition and you are now unarmed...


Of late my favorite answer to FU is, "Well thats a reasoned intelligent response."

though i usually get a second FU after that plus a smile or two from bystanders.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

iggy's picture
iggy
February 17, 2010 - 1:17pm
OK.  I usually stay quiet and listen to political discussions then make my choice of opinion and go.  But I have a thought to add so I will speak.  I have moved around quite a bit in my life and have seen quite a bit of "cultural diversity".  From Nov 2001 to Aug 2004 I lived in Billerica MA.  The people voted democrat but in private conversations had many republican views.  Now I live in Utah (since Aug 2004) and the people vote republican but in private conversations have many democrat views.  From 1988 - 1990 I lived in the Philippines.  The people mostly didn't vote and had views that they were helpless yet they turned their country around by replacing Marcos.
Why do groups of people do the opposite of what they are inside?  Probably that is because we don't want to be different or wrong, etc.  I think that people are a great cause of their leadership problems by following like sheep the cultural mind set of the local area.  If we are each making our own minds up the politicians would be more in fear of keeping their jobs/power and would follow the wishes of their constituents.  We would also not likely have leaders who stayed in office for life.  We the people lost control of our government some time ago.  It does not have to stay that way.

OK, I think I got my thought out without messing it up too much.


-iggy
-iggy

Rum Rogue's picture
Rum Rogue
February 17, 2010 - 1:29pm
lets get rid of the two party system.
start putting working class people in public office.
get them resonable wages. Same healthcare plans that the rest of us use. No more expense accounts. Got to earn that retirement, which means 20 years like the rest of us.
Time flies when your having rum.

Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time.

Sam's picture
Sam
February 17, 2010 - 1:41pm

Don't forget term limits.


Ascent's picture
Ascent
February 17, 2010 - 2:10pm
jedion357 wrote:
[It always amuses me when people start name calling and vugarity cause it means they have nothing substantive to say on the issue or that they realize they're in the wrong but dont want to admit it. I actually enjoy being told F*** you.

I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that or implying it, other than what I said to Mr. Signs, and it wasn 't about the political issue at all.

My stand is that the economy could have survived just fine had Bush chosen different advice to follow, or had properly rolled back his policies after two years like he promised. When you look at his presidency, carefully analyzing the blunders, blunder after blunder, and see that there was very little success, and that he actually broke the record for lowest approval rating of any president in history, and acted like a dictator, completely ignoring ALL of his advisors in every single decision EXCEPT the 9/11 recovery plan (and even that smacked of his oil barronry) or finally sticking to his speaches as written by his ghost writers, and his own lack of wits when he speaks on his own, then you know that the guy is the worst president this country ever had. But in all that, I blame everyone who voted for him, because he was a walking train wreck waiting to happen, and it was obvioius. When he was elected, I knew it was going to be bad, but he far exceeded my expectations of what bad is. I would rather have a president who knows what he's doing and serves his own agenda than a president who is a total blunderkind and serves his own agenda. The latter has resulted in the current situation.

The current president may be lazy regarding coming up with his own ideas, but he is an office manager, and right now, that's what we need, someone to put our house in order. He could have sat around for two years waiting for his advisors to decide what should be done, but he pushed them to come up with a plan. Like they say, a bad plan is better than no plan at all, and until the situation goes into full collapse, recovers, or his 4 years are up, there's no way of knowing whether his direction will work or not. We spent 14 years from the 80's to the 90's in a repressed state, so we should all know how long these things can last, and seeing as the economy is in its worst condition since the great depression, there is no way anyone should ever expect the economy to rebound in just 1 year. A person would have to be completely looped to believe that.

Anyway, that's WHY I hold my view. I don't expect any of you to adopt it. I hold Bush responsible 99%, and I'm not going to change my view until someone can provide proof that the economy collapsed because A, B, and C happened, and that it would have happened with or without Bush, or that the war would have happened with or without Bush, or that the world would hate Americans so much more than they did 10 years ago with or without Bush.

My view is that the man is a walking train wreck, and I promise, nothing can be said to change that, and you don't need to feel obligated to change my view or to claim that I'm telling any one "FU", because I haven't even implied it. I have respected every view here. Having a dissenting view is not disrespectful. Using a curse word regarding someone you thoroughly hate is common, and to put someone down because they do it when you do it yourself in your offline conversations, well, stones and glass houses and all that. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I always find it interesting that those without much to say always end up throwing out accusations and derailing the discussion by making someone look bad.

This whole part of the discussion started because someone said that WOTC's excuse for cancelling SWRPG was bogus. My stand is that it is an extremely legitimate excuse and that there is no way anyone can prove otherwise. It was also said that the guy who spoke was not to be trusted, and I was refuting that as well. This economy is crap, George Lucas is not a demon, and WOTC has good reason to cancel the SWRPG that have everything to do with the former, likely nothing to do with the latter, and nothing to do with greed or the failure of the game system, being quite simply a legitimate business decision.

That's all. My point has been made, and I never have and never will say "FU" to anyone not deserving it, and none of you deserve it simply for holding different political views.

P.S.: I am neither Republican nor Democrat, nor am I socialist, capitalist, or parliamentarian. I don't believe in bipartisan politics, believing it to be very much a failure, punctuated by the rare success. I believe in independent choice based not on political idealogy, but on informed choice and concern for the future.
View my profile for a list of articles I have written, am writing, will write.
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