Using Parawings?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 7, 2009 - 3:21pm
Whats everyone's opinion on the parawing from the AD equipment list?

who can use it? Technicians under operate equipment subskill or open for everyone to use (its essentially just a parachute)? Would you say that any character able to operate arial vehicles by default can operate a parawing and just charge a nominal EXP charge to characters with a military background to take the ORbital Combat-drop Seminar [ORCS]?

What can you do while operating a parawing? fire a weapon? chew gum only?

would militaries use a parawing to combat drop from atmospheric cabable space craft and or air vehicles?
Would militaries really want to have the non refoldable function of the parawing so that they end up being left around sticking out like a sore thumb waiting to draw the enemy's attention? Or would there be a military issue parawing that can be broken down and reused but cost more than a std. parawing and with the capability to punch a button and blow the wing free within seconds of landing?

Any other thoughts?

It also occurs to me that a orbital sky diving/ drop suit might be in order sort of a combination skien suit and space suit but with very very limited Life support (only enought to see you through a orbital sky dive) it may be possible to use the orbital dive suit as an emergency space suit even jacking in a std. LS pack/ canister but you could not dive with that LS pack attached nor could you wear space suit armor with it. it would have price limitations on it as well.


I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!
Comments:

Georgie's picture
Georgie
December 7, 2009 - 5:31pm
My view of the parawing is that it is, in essence, a level 1 robot. You strap it on, point it to where you want to land, and it handles the rest (provided that you are at a reasonable altitude). This gives the jumper the ability to use his/her hands for other things if necessary. HAHO or HALO or other special circumstance jumps may require a specially crafted parawing, allowing the jumper to select when it deploys, I'm still undecided on that.

I would not charge XP for any parawing training. If they have a job where its use is needed, they automatically have the necessary training in my book. If special training is needed for non-standard jumps, then likely only a select few would have it. This would typically be only special ops types.

Parawing insertions would not be possible from orbit. Impact with the atmosphere would not be survivable without a reentry vehicle, IMHO. Sub orbital may be possible with a gas mask/oxygen supply type arrangement, provided that there is sufficient atmospheric pressure to keep the jumper's blood from boiling.

Military parawings could have a self-destruct mechanism, something that would operate with minimal light and noise and allow the device to be broken into smaller pieces and hidden.
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.    * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi

Georgie's picture
Georgie
December 7, 2009 - 5:34pm
P.S.

Anthropomorphic Robots 3rd level or higher can be programmed to use a parawing. The cost of such a program is, say, 500cr to 1000cr.
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.    * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 7, 2009 - 11:52pm
Georgie wrote:
My view of the parawing is that it is, in essence, a level 1 robot.

the equipment description doesn't suggest a robot incorporated into it but making it a simple minded robot like that powered by a 20 SEU clip instead of a parabattery is a good way to side step the issue of training and operation of this item.

Georgie wrote:

Military parawings could have a self-destruct mechanism, something that would operate with minimal light and noise and allow the device to be broken into smaller pieces and hidden.


That was my thinking too Plus I thought that a robotic jump companion (your lvl 3 anthropomorphic robot) would be a good way to get a heavy  canister of extra equipment down for a military squad.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

umungus's picture
umungus
December 10, 2009 - 7:09pm
Interesting idea Georgie! Sounds cool for drops. You could fly into the hot zone. Maybe not get picked up on radar. instead of having your dropship alert everyone around. Having your gear fly in on seperate robotic wings could help out a lot. Interesting idea. ....  I feel an adventure idea coming on...Foot in mouth

At least I got to scare an alien rabbit thingy......


Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
December 10, 2009 - 8:00pm
Who needs a parawing when you gotz these!  Foot in mouth

Yazirian Drop Troop

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
December 10, 2009 - 8:46pm
Great ideas.
I would think if a robot is piloting it would be activated and controlled by voice commands.

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 10, 2009 - 10:40pm
w00t wrote:
Great ideas.
I would think if a robot is piloting it would be activated and controlled by voice commands.


That and it'd free up hands for weapons use if need be. I'm thinking that that parawing should be ruled to give non yazerians the same gliding ability as the yaz; simply for the reason of keeping things simple and not having to track 2 different set of rules- just use the rules for a yaz gliding.

Also since with a piece of equipment gives every one gets the yaz's special ability I think some redefining of that ability for the yaz is in order; like the yazerian can trim his wings and drop faster for every 10m forward movement but he has to slow up before hitting the ground: ie 1 turn of normal descent and parawings dont get this ability. Also for a number of turns/ by STR or some other ability score the yaz can trim his wings and drop by less but only for that number of turns total in one jump maybe just cutting the descent in half for those turns. This would give the yaz a bit more tactical control in the air keeping his special ability for him yet an entire mixed party could participate in the "yaz experience"
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
December 11, 2009 - 8:54am
jedion357 wrote:
This would give the yaz a bit more tactical control in the air keeping his special ability for him yet an entire mixed party could participate in the "yaz experience"


Hrm.... I bet there is a sports company that as builds wings for other races to mimic Yazirians flight.

WingKite
Cost
 550 Cr
Weight
 2.5 kg
Manufacture
 Extreme Air Sports
Description
   WingKites resemble yazirian wing membranes and are used to glide through the air and land safely on the ground. They are similar to a long jacket with attachments for the anckles, shoulders and wrists. A cord near the left hip can be pulled to secure the wings to the sides of the individual to prevent the wings form catching objects while moving on the ground. A punch-button on the chest release the wingkite for flight.



Extreme Air Sports is located at Suite13458a.333.EastWay.Port Loren.Prenglar.GranQuivera and can be reached via subspace 882380283373333904.







jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 11, 2009 - 1:53pm
WOOT strikes again!

But I suspect that the reason we haven't seen the wingkite in the real world is that generally a human is still to heavy to land with out a parachute, at least in 1g maybe its usable in a lower gravity.

I like the wingkite but I suspect the reason the yazerians can do what they do is they are generally lighter, despite being taller than humans- hollow bones or some other bird like adaption. We could suppose the greater overall body length combined with wrist to ankle gliding wings creates extra glide surface that a human or a drall for that matter wouldn't get in a yazerian suit.

I would think that most other races would still hit hard enough to make it hurt and the wingkite would probably be unsuited for a vursk.

it would almost make parawings a neccessary backup, just for a safe landing. And the smaller glide surface might mean that the actual rulls for Yazerian gliding would need to be adjusted since a human or a drall is likely to drop faster in the same gravity compared to a yazerian.

EDIT: It suddenly occured to me that an inertial screen could be coupled with the wingkite and tuned to provide a safe landing. Normally inertia screens stop 1/2 damage so since this one is tuned to project toward the pull of gravity the wearer gets no benefit if ballistic damage comes from any other direction beside the direction gravity is pulling. No other screen can be active while using a wingkite.

I'm no expert on jumping out of perfectly good air planes having only done it once by static line from 5000'
but the extensive training on doing a PLF (Parachute Landing Fall) to displace the energy of the landing along the whole side of your body instead of all of that energy being applied to just your feet and seeing photos of the broken leg of the last guy who did the PLF wrong has given me a healthy respect for the power of gravity- well actually my last jump into Quincy Quarries from 70' and landing on my tailbone cured me of trill seeking.

All In all the wingkite is a neat idea and would be well suited to a setting like Larry NIven's "the integral trees"

It was a star system with a "smoke ring circling a star that through unique quirks of chance the "smoke ring" had an environment that supported life (its a bit complicated to explain but it was a good read.)
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
December 15, 2009 - 10:30pm
jedion357 wrote:

All In all the wingkite is a neat idea and would be well suited to a setting like Larry NIven's "the integral trees"

It was a star system with a "smoke ring circling a star that through unique quirks of chance the "smoke ring" had an environment that supported life (its a bit complicated to explain but it was a good read.)
Yeah, it would definitely work there.  +1 for a good read.
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Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
March 17, 2010 - 9:59pm
I'm toying with some ideas and would like input. (I started this late tonight so it might not make much sense.)

Yazirian Gliding
Alpha Dawn does not define the yazirians descent rate. I consider descent an important factor. For example how many turns does it take to glide-drop from a plane at 10km altitude? Is it safe for a platoon of yazirians?  How many turns are they in the air?

In addition I have redefined this ability to differentiate them from a character that uses gear to simulate yazirians wings (wing kite for example).

The minimum height a yazirian can use his gliding ability is 10m. The yazirian descends at a rate of 20m each turn. If the yazirian travels in a straight line the maximum horizontal movement is 2m for each meter above 10m. For example; a character jumping for a 60m building will be able to glide horizontal 120m and will land in approximately 1 turns or 3 seconds. If the height was 1,000m the character would land in approximately 8 turns, or 50 seconds.

  Additionally;

1.      A yazirian can make a DEX check to attack a ground based target. Add 1d10 to his punching damage is successful. If the target is aware he may make a RS check to avoid the attack.

2.      Yazirians can decrease their descent rate or increase their forward movement by dividing their STR by 10. This is the number of turns a yazirian can cut his descent in half (10m per turn). If applied to forward movement this is the number of extra meters he can glide.

3.      Yazirians can also make DEX checks each turn while gliding to perform various stunts such as catching updrafts, using thermals to increase glide range, ride pressure pockets, etc.... After all they are true masters of aerodynamics.

Wind direction can be determined by using the grenade bounce table. The following option rule is used when considering wind conditions.

Favorable wind conditions - add 2m horizontal movement for each 1m descended and decrease descent rate by 5.

Neutral wind conditions - use values given in stat block.

Unfavorable wind conditions: decrease 1m horizontal movement for each 2m descended.


Georgie's picture
Georgie
March 18, 2010 - 5:34am
1. Just to be clear, the flying attack that you mention is more of a kamikaze type of thing, right? Given their physiology, making an attack mid-flight would be next to impossible without folding the yaz wings and plummeting like a stone.

3. Isn't the presence of thermal updrafts as much a matter of luck/environment as it is pilot skill/knowledge? (I'm not a pilot or meteorologist so I really don't know for sure). I'm not sure a DEX check is appropriate to use such a thing. It's more along the lines of a LOG check. Regardless, wouldn't an experienced parawing pilot also be able to do the stunts? How would we determine a characters experience with the parawing in comarison to the yaz's natural ability?

The wind conditions are an interesting idea.
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.    * Attributed to Mahatma Gandhi

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
March 18, 2010 - 8:53am
Georgie wrote:
1. Just to be clear, the flying attack that you mention is more of a kamikaze type of thing, right? Given their physiology, making an attack mid-flight would be next to impossible without folding the yaz wings and plummeting like a stone.

3. Isn't the presence of thermal updrafts as much a matter of luck/environment as it is pilot skill/knowledge? (I'm not a pilot or meteorologist so I really don't know for sure). I'm not sure a DEX check is appropriate to use such a thing. It's more along the lines of a LOG check. Regardless, wouldn't an experienced parawing pilot also be able to do the stunts? How would we determine a characters experience with the parawing in comarison to the yaz's natural ability?

The wind conditions are an interesting idea.


1. The target must be on the ground. The attack is basically the yaz landing on you.

3. I just threw that in there - it's not clearly defined what the benefits are. I agree that a parawing should be able to do stuts, but not like a yaz (different mechanisms, one is mounted wings on the back while the other is wings on the bodies sides).

An idea; A yazirian is able to make a DEX (or LOG or whatever) check to catch a updraft that allows free use of his hands and feet for 1 turn. He can perform any action as if he were on the ground; draw a pistol and fire, throw a nade, whistle, whatever.

Really this idea is to make the ability cinematic and fun to role player (or funner...).

Experience comes form training, whether your using a parawing or wings.

Thanks for the input - please keep 'em coming.




iggy's picture
iggy
March 18, 2010 - 11:45am
I think the GM should state the wind conditions or roll if its not critical to the plot, then the yaz uses his dex checks to exploit the wind conditions given.

Also, wouldn't there be some max speed that a yazirian can reach before the wind resistance starts to overcome his strength and/or the wing membranes?  This would convert to a max height to glide from and would vary from planet to planet because it is just based on acceleration due to gravity.  There would also be winds too strong for a yazirian to glide in.
-iggy