Question: Ships leaving the Void

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous
April 24, 2008 - 6:54pm
Assuming a ship does not want to decelerate and stop in a system how close can they drop out of the Void near a planet? Is there a minimum safe distance?
(I'm writing an article about faster than light torpedoes. The idea is they are launched from one system to another, drop out of the Void and hit a target before the target can react.)

Side note; remember the worm hole that was created when Capt. Kirk went to warp speed before clearing the solar system?
Comments:

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
April 24, 2008 - 9:14pm
Talking in chat it was suggested that a ship would need to clear the gravity well of a planet.


AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 24, 2008 - 10:47pm
Theoretically speaking, it would make sense that planets and other celestial objects would have a minimum safe distance around them established for void or space fold navigation. Primarily so that if there was at least a miscalculation of malfunction you didn't end up jumping into a planet or sun. This margin of error would also take into effect gravity wells, meteor activity, comets, asteroids, other phenomenon to establish a reasonably margin of error or malfunction. Not to mention folding space close too close to a planet may effect the energy field necesary to fold space, gravity distortions, or just cause damage to the planet and its lifeforms. I think it is generally assumed that since system ships that travel inter solar system don't requre jump drives that vessels equiped with sufficent technology to make void jumps would be capable of reaching a minimum safe distance with conventional propulsion before initiating a jump. As far as FTL torpedos, interesting idea, I would like to see what you come up with. In my game world/ house rules I have limited combat to sublight speeds as most weapons would be completely in-effective at FTL. Most likely an FTL torpedo would essentially be a micro automated starship with a nuclear warhead.  

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
April 25, 2008 - 7:34am
I would think that 1,000,000 km from any celestial body would be a nice cushion for leaving the Void.  The actual envelope is probably lower, based on the size of the planetary body, but 1 million km is a nice, round number that people could remember easily. 

As a part of legal jumps (similar to filing a flight plan with the FAA) interstellar law would require a registration of the jump, and then a Void drop-out point would be assigned by the Control Center in that system.  While these jumps are handled by civilian authorities, duplicate registrations also would be filed with the UPF and possibly Star Law.

Similar to being assigned a runway at an airport, the jumping ship will be provided a drop-out point in system.  Computers would ensure that the ship's speed and facing would not crash into another ship or be on another ship's trajectory.  While this might not sound like a big deal, in the big systems like Prenglar or Cassidine, with 100's of ships arriving and departing per day, this is a major safety issue.

Unregistered jumps into the planetary zones would alert the local authorities - militia or UPF - and prompt an immediate boarding and search of the ship.  If nothing is found, then only a large fine is levied for this breaking of safety procedures.  If a ship repeatedly makes unregistered jumps, then the captain/crew is arrested and the ship is confiscated.

Criminals that want to avoid this scrutiny would have to jump into the peripheries of the star systems.  Then, they could carry out their nefarious activites far from scanner range.  However, to have any kind of contact with the civilized worlds (buying supplies, for instance) a pirate organization would have to have access to at least one legitimate ship.

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 25, 2008 - 7:43am
Great concept Imperial Lord, I like it and have probably used a similar regulation during the last twenty years of game play (oh my has it really been that long, crickets chirp during the silence, I'm getting old)Laughing

Will's picture
Will
April 25, 2008 - 1:10pm
That's exactly the system I use, save it's more like 0.05 AU from the planet's outer atmosphere.

Warships, in wartime,  sometimes reenter normal space inside the atmosphere of hostile planets, purelly as a shock and awe tactic causing HS×750 points of damage to everything within 1,000 kilometers of the ship emerging from the Void, requiring the ship's pilot to roll at -20% to skill to keep his ship from being blown to bits in the process.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
April 26, 2008 - 6:38pm
Found this in the Knight Hawks book, ships exiting the Void inside a star system. I like Brian's idea -- 1,000,000 km from a gravity well is a good minimum safe distance.
Suddenly. the frigate's sensors lit up; long range detectors reported two ships emerging from the Void inside the system. Immediately, the commander ordered all hands to their stations. There was no good reason to be suspicious, but he had an odd feeling . . .

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 29, 2008 - 8:51am
FTLT

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 29, 2008 - 12:39pm
FTLT LAYOUT

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
April 29, 2008 - 12:41pm
FTLT DOC 3

Will's picture
Will
May 1, 2008 - 1:30am
An interstellar potato masher...wow...:-D.

Seriously, awesome artwork, Arizona.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 1, 2008 - 5:23pm
Thanks! Yes a faster than light potato masher...muhahahahaa

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
May 1, 2008 - 6:04pm
Anyone like/dislike the idea of a "jump event" (see below). Reading SF material it appears the only way you know if someone exited the Void is a ship suddenly blinks to life on your scopes. In a way that's pretty sweet... if you had stealth you could jump, appear and disappear in seconds.

Also commenting on The Law and the Justice by William Signs in Issue 8 "Back in the Robosaddle Again!" I thoroughly enjoyed the Marines using the Void to jump right on top of enemy ships, jump back into the Void and exit yet again on top of another deployment of enemy ships. Outstanding!

Content of Alpha Dawn Expanded project

Jump Event


Jump events are whirlpools of space/time left after a ship leaves or enters the Void.
The larger the ship, the larger the jump event.
Deric spent the next couple of hours riveted to the search scans, taking brief pauses to check his squadron status, it was during one of these that Shelidra Matninger his XO broke the routine.

“Lightning 6 this is Lightning 5, I have multiple jump events approximately 16 AU’s out.” She said.

The model of Talon fighter that she was in boasted an improved sensor package that had half again the range and sensitivity of Deric’s.

“Can you get ID conformation this far out?” Deric asked
-Doc Fishbone
Used with permission from

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 2, 2008 - 7:26pm
I like the jump event concept

Will's picture
Will
May 2, 2008 - 9:13am
w00t wrote:
Anyone like/dislike the idea of a "jump event" (see below). Reading SF material it appears the only way you know if someone exited the Void is a ship suddenly blinks to life on your scopes. In a way that's pretty sweet... if you had stealth you could jump, appear and disappear in seconds.

Also commenting on The Law and the Justice by William Signs in Issue 8 "Back in the Robosaddle Again!" I thoroughly enjoyed the Marines using the Void to jump right on top of enemy ships, jump back into the Void and exit yet again on top of another deployment of enemy ships. Outstanding!

Content of Alpha Dawn Expanded project

Jump Event


Jump events are whirlpools of space/time left after a ship leaves or enters the Void.
The larger the ship, the larger the jump event.
Deric spent the next couple of hours riveted to the search scans, taking brief pauses to check his squadron status, it was during one of these that Shelidra Matninger his XO broke the routine.

“Lightning 6 this is Lightning 5, I have multiple jump events approximately 16 AU’s out.” She said.

The model of Talon fighter that she was in boasted an improved sensor package that had half again the range and sensitivity of Deric’s.

“Can you get ID conformation this far out?” Deric asked
-Doc Fishbone
Used with permission from


First, Larry, thanks for the compliment, tho it isn't my best story by far(or maybe, it's just me, I can never read my own work without seeing the mistakes....)

As for a Void event, it would only make sense that a ship transitting faster than light through normal space would leave a sizeable footprint in normal space, as any change in the density and volume of local spacetime would create a heat and radiation pulse, and a ship reentering normal space from the Void would create a substanial heat and radiation pulse, as both the ship changes the density and volume of local spacetime by its emergence, and it sheds faster-than-light velocity to assume a slower-than-light one.

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

Will's picture
Will
May 2, 2008 - 9:15am
Oh, and a microjump is just another form of risk jumping, with the same chances....it is an excellent surprise tactic, assuming the micro goes according to plan and doesn't slam you into a solid object somewhere in normspace.....

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 2, 2008 - 7:31pm
The jump event also is great for use with your FTL torpedoes as it makes their power more reasonable and actually still a playable weapon. For example when the FTL torpedo enters norm space the target has only a split warning, has to be on its guard in the first place and detect the jump event and not mistake it for a friendly jumping into the nearby space, and then launch counter measures quickly in defense. It still makes the FTL very lethal but also gives the target a chance to detect and defend, even if it is slim chance...muhooohahahahaa...errr, hissss hissss hisssssss (Satharian evil laughter).

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 2, 2008 - 8:01pm
Somewhere In the Frontier UPF Heavy Cruiser Dauntless Returning To Port From Escort Duty.

Ensign T'nar was monitoring her the tactical station when a strange new report came in from the long range sensor arrays.

"Captain! new jump event forming, reading close proximity, unusual emissions signature." 

Captain Raliegh looked down at the ensigns console, the close forming jump event had an erie but distinctive signature, one he had seen before.

"Launch ICMS! Helm, initiate evassive roll! Astrogation, prepare for high risk emergency jump."

Tragic memories of twisted burned plasti-steel hulks flashed through the captain's mind, a grim reminder of the previous encounter his escort group had with this new Sathar weapon. Captain Raliegh knew he had only moments to act once the jump event was detected before the infernal machine entered normal space. It was a FTL torpedo, launched from a Sathar attack vessel just outside of the Cruiser's sensor range probably utilizing a remote probe as a forward observer to target the UPF Heavy Cruiser when it entered normal space to return to the space station for re-supply. The Sathar vessel could launch its attack with impunity well outside the normal range of engagement with this deadly weapon. Captain Raliegh knew the only chance to survive this attack was to was to get his ship out of the kill zone in one piece and find either the Sathar Probe or the vessel lauching the attack. One thing Captain Raliegh knew for certain was that someone was out there painting a bullseye on his ship and there would be hell to pay!

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
May 2, 2008 - 9:03pm
AZ_GAMER wrote:
Somewhere In the Frontier UPF Heavy Cruiser Dauntless Returning To Port From Escort Duty.

Ensign T'nar was monitoring her the tactical station when a strange new report came in from the long range sensor arrays.

"Captain! new jump event forming, reading close proximity, unusual emissions signature."

Captain Raliegh looked down at the ensigns console, the close forming jump event had an erie but distinctive signature, one he had seen before.

"Launch ICMS! Helm, initiate evassive roll! Astrogation, prepare for high risk emergency jump."

Tragic memories of twisted burned plasti-steel hulks flashed through the captain's mind, a grim reminder of the previous encounter his escort group had with this new Sathar weapon. Captain Raliegh knew he had only moments to act once the jump event was detected before the infernal machine entered normal space. It was a FTL torpedo, launched from a Sathar attack vessel just outside of the Cruiser's sensor range probably utilizing a remote probe as a forward observer to target the UPF Heavy Cruiser when it entered normal space to return to the space station for re-supply. The Sathar vessel could launch its attack with impunity well outside the normal range of engagement with this deadly weapon. Captain Raliegh knew the only chance to survive this attack was to was to get his ship out of the kill zone in one piece and find either the Sathar Probe or the vessel lauching the attack. One thing Captain Raliegh knew for certain was that someone was out there painting a bullseye on his ship and there would be hell to pay!


"Captain, we have isolated the jump event, I'm calculating it's last known trajectory." After a brief pause Ensign T'nar snaps, "GOT IT!"

Captain Raliegh smiles one of those, "Your so dead wormies" smiles. "Good job ensign. Once we outmaneuver this stinger set a course and risk jump to that location"

FTLTs have a max kill zone of 500 hexs from the center of it's target area. 50,000 km to be exact, almost 4 times the diameter of Eath. They rely on speed to get to their target.

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
May 2, 2008 - 10:05pm
w00t wrote:
FTLTs have a max kill zone of 500 hexs from the center of it's target area. 50,000 km to be exact, almost 4 times the diameter of Eath. They rely on speed to get to their target.
  Is there a typo in there somewhere or are you using a different scale than normal?  Standard KH has 10,000 km hexes so that would be 5 hexes not 500.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 3, 2008 - 7:10am
great stuff, "your so dead wormies"KissLaughing

Will's picture
Will
May 3, 2008 - 8:21am
I'm also reasonably sure each ship or FTLT would have its own distinct footprint when it transits/emerges from the Void.

Also, how rare would an FTLT be anyway, Larry, considering the expense and the tech involved?

Or do those things even matter to the Sathar?!

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 3, 2008 - 12:28pm
I think it would be a great terror based weapon, as the Sathar can launch it from outside normal engagement range. The weapon could not be stopped easily while in transit through the void and once it exited the defending side would really have to be on its toes to foil the attempt. Not to mention, all of those neat scenarios of Sathar agents sneaking around UPF ships and facilities planting locators/transmitters for the torpedo to home in on. As far as cost effectiveness, no different then any other smart weapon, sure its a more expensive toy but it gets the job done with half the work and less dead wormies from a direct confrontation with a UPF task force. Its definitely a hit and run weapon, a terror weapon, and terrorizing its foes is definitely a Sathar specialty (See creation of the quick deaths, cybodragons, and slithers which are some expensive and not so practical toys in and of themselves). I think the FTLT is a fit for the Sathar's deceptive, cunning, and sinister nature for a race that doesn't always appreciate the subtlties of a good ol fashioned toe to toe stand up fight. I'm sure it won't be long before the UPF developes adequette defenses or a FTLT of its own design. Maybe you could think of it like the V2 rockets of WWII, not necessary efficent and definitely not cheap, but definitely terrifying.

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
May 3, 2008 - 6:24pm
1. CORRECTION: 5 hexs not 50. This is to allow (somewhat) game balance. The idea is to have a spotter or designated area before the torp is launched and it will only target within 50,000 km. An example might be a Sathar agent plotting the course of a station and getting that data back to the launching ship -- when the torp arrives the station has to be on the right side of the planet for it to hit.

Also in AZ's story the spotter would need to be very close - maybe even on board the ship!!!

Torp's ignore targets less than hull size 16 (the Sathar want to hit a station or large starship rather than a system shuttle) and will target the largest object.

2. Yes, it makes an excellent terror weapon.

3. There expensive. If the Sathar had unlimited resources they would have built more ships during SWII and run the UPF over. ;-) right?
The Sathar are actually afraid of the core four in a way -- the UPF's continued resistance to terror has baffled the Sathar so they have opted for a more clandestine operation.

After I came up with idea I remember a move called "The Last Starfighter" -- remember when the enemy opened a small hole in the shields and started flinging asteroids?

Any other thougths?

Will's picture
Will
May 4, 2008 - 10:17am
I remember very well, w00t, as it was the first major motion picture to utilize 100% CGI special effects(the plot was passable, if not stellar).

Arizona, according to at least one passage in ZEB's(the references in the timeline to the Feds mining the space between Cassidine and Madderly's Star and another to the worms being ambushed by ships from Moonworld while in transit) and implied in Alpha Dawn and the Volturnus modules(Truane's Star to Zebulon being the only navigable route through the Xagyg Dust Nebula), ships transitting the Void can be stopped by mines/solid objects in normspace.

And, the Sathar have little regard for life, especially their own...after all, they also developed shatter drones and like to ram UPF ships with their own as well.

And, you didn't mention the Juggernaut....:-D

"You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so."


—Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
May 4, 2008 - 12:25pm
Oh DOH!
Innocent
The Sathar hav a way to detect ships using Void engines and transmit a tattle tail signal back to home base.
Question Answered

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 4, 2008 - 7:02pm
Satharizn Green

New set of Renders of the FTLT in a stunning spring fashion called Satharian Green Kiss

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 6, 2008 - 11:11am
Ok Woot here's the finished requested pics. I really don't have time right now to compose the launch sequence from the Sathar attack vessel. I did some test mock-ups on this and it was going to very very very time consuming. I may revisit this set of pics later but I've already put twenty hours into the images I've posted and my wife is tapping her foot and shaking her head so that means it's time to wrap it up ("awww come on hon' the guys are comming over for a game"). Anyway here's what I have so far. Page 1 FTLT Jump Event, In Flight, And Warhead at Critical Mass. Page 2 a UPF or Frontier Space Station (A Small One) and the same station after impact. Enjoy

Sathar FTLT Page 1 

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 6, 2008 - 11:14am
Sathar FTLT Page 2

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
May 6, 2008 - 12:48pm
Beautiful!
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 7, 2008 - 11:50am
Thanks. Composed and rendered in Bryce 5.5 with a little tweeking in Daz Studio and MS Photo Editor. The FTLT is almost completely an original 3d mesh I did borrow part of the fuesalage from a WWII torpedo model because it just fit the build so nicely. The space station model is modular and was created by another artist. However, its configuration, placement in the scene, lighting, composition, rendering, and subsequent destruction (MUHUHAHAHAAA) was all me. The reason I mention these details is that I want to encourage anyone interested that they too can create great images like these. Talent artisitically is a bonus, but you can achieve great looking results without a lot of artistic talent but a willingness to learn and paitence to experiment. CGI is not just something for movie studios (They just have all the hot-rod software that can do it faster and higher volumes) it is for anyone who has the paitence to play with it and learn how it works.