| AZ_GAMER April 24, 2008 - 9:08am | During the brief Site shutdown I visited a thread at SF.org that was discussing the general characteisitcs of UPF and Sathar ship design and recognition. While as a matter of strict game canon I think this was a good idea for standardized ship construction but as a creative referee of a long standing campaign I think that these characteristics are too limiting. For example (I dont remember the list verbatim) but one point I thought was rather silly was that all Sathar Ships use Spherical command modules and have engine nacelles mounted on pylon stalks. Ok, as a matter of original canon this is true, however I do not think that the Sathar have a monopoly on the use of Spherical module design or engine nacelles. The use of Spherical module design is universal and a very efficent use of space. Personally while I feel that having a standardized ship recognition is a good thing it should not be limited by a race specific geometry. Size, color scheme, technology, are all factors at work in starship design recognition. Obviously, common ship design would depend a lot on what shipyard(s) currently have the contract for designing and building the ships that are in current fleet service. However, as those ships are decommissioned with age, damage, or obsolete tech, new designs and configurations are bound to be seen in successive generations. In the recently submitted chits which are based on my warship designs contructed by a private mega-corp shipyard for use by UPF (or the highest bidder) a spherical module design is the construction norm employed by this shipyard. Now, I recognize that these are most definitely alternative non-canon designs they are based on the canon ship archetypes and concepts. In the future I am will be working on some Sathar designs that do not rely on the use of outboard exterior engine nacelles as these tactically provide a distinct target of oportunity. If ship shape and color was the sole design factor for recognition then the UPF would be in big trouble if the Sathar decided to build vessels that used stocky cylindrical designs with angular features and aft mounted engines. Imagine that conversation..."uhhh captain, that destoyer with the federation configuration, well it's is painted red and has established a target lock on us." As ship configuration often depends a lot on function and efficent use of hull space I think that we should take a page from our own millitary history. During the WWII era a distant vessel on the ocean horizon were just grey chunks of metal in the water until it could be identified friend or foe. Coloration, Flags, engine design, (and later during the cold war engine sound detected by sonar), weapon battery placement, intercepted radio traffic/code, draft in the water, etc. all went into consideration in identifying an enemy vessel. In the SF universe, with the exisitence of powerful detection technology, identification transponders, energy emission signatures, comm traffic, and even analysis of material construction are far more reliable means of ship recognition then a glimmering reflective hull silhouetted in the black of deep space. On a humorous note and in the words of one my friends' PC, "Don't matter if its shaped like cigar or an egg, if it shoots at 'ya it ain't friendly". |
| w00t April 24, 2008 - 9:19am | Interesting point. In the d20 Future book they tried to build ships based on race characterists. For example the Vrusk ships the bridge looked like bug eyes. In the SF Universe it appears there are three classes of ship design:
..but why wouldn't each planet has a specific design type? Or each cooperation? Any more thoughts on this? :-) Rocketpack Monkey's (TM) |
| AZ_GAMER April 24, 2008 - 9:35am | I have not seen the D20 concepts. However I do like the idea of the vrusk engineered vessels having a insect like appearance. I assume, that UPF canon ship designs were probably a collaborative effort blending features contributed by all member races...ie humans may have designed components in the hull as well as vrusk, dral, yaz etc. But I agree that each planet or star system may have individual ship configurations too. For example a vrusk-an assult scout may use the standard UPF configuration of triangular wings struts with engine pods and a conical primary hull but it might possibly be inverted with the wings/engines in front shaped like a dragon-fly or have buggy features to it ![]() |
| Rum Rogue April 24, 2008 - 9:39am | I could see the UPF SpaceFleet having a standard ship design for each type/class of vessel. That way, when Ensign wOOt transfers from one destroyer to another within Fleet, he knows where the brig would be. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
| AZ_GAMER April 24, 2008 - 9:55am | LOL......ensign woot would probably be esorted by the ships security/marines to the brig and not just wander down there by himself at least without looking at one of the convienently placed ship maps on the wall first. I agree that UPF ship general layouts ...ie where is that darn bridge located at..would be standard in placement but the shape of the exterior and interior maybe very different from ship manufacturer to ship manufacturer and from class to class. So while the brig maybe in the same general place or deck it maybe round instead of square. So ensign woot has a little more leg room in for a better chemical toilet and larger cott or maybe not if the accomodations are very spartan. Speaking of brigs wouldn't that be an unused storage locker on an assualt scout. Great feedback! |
| Rum Rogue April 24, 2008 - 2:14pm | Very good points AZ. I like that line of thought. I am just looking at it from a government contract point of view. Or at least looking at the vehicles that the US Army has. For instance: a 2-1/2 cargo truck manufactured by AM General in 1968 will be identicle to the same truck made by Kaiser Jeep that same year. However the truck made by Stuedabaker in 1953 will stand out due to the years of changes that have been made. To include outward apperance, load capabilities, and engine performance (to say the least.) Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
| AZ_GAMER April 24, 2008 - 4:28pm | I agree RR, but lets take a similar example from the air force. When the contract for the F/A 18 was being considered two very radically different aircraft were proposed for the same job..the Hornet and the F-20 Tiger Shark (which looked a lot like an F-5E on steroids). Eventually as we all know the Hornet won the contract and is currently in service today. However the important point is that while function should be strict to canon, unless creating a new ship class or custom design, form and appearance should be open ended to lend more freedom and excitement to game development. While the hummer and jeep do pretty much the same job they most certainly don't look the same and I am willing to bet that while both use an internal combustion engine and have similar parts they don't follow the same configuration. It's that innovation that makes a dyson a dyson and a hoover a hoover. |
| Rum Rogue April 24, 2008 - 6:45pm | I understand your points much better now. It looks like we have been on the same wavelength. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
| AZ_GAMER April 24, 2008 - 8:10pm | Yes, upon checking the regulations in my UPF tact manual I see that yes in fact ensign woot is to immediately report to the brig of any UPF vessel including assault scouts....lol ![]() |
| w00t April 24, 2008 - 8:43pm | Make that MODIFIED assault scout buds ![]() I report to the brig to visit you two punks. ;-) Rocketpack Monkey's (TM) |
| Rum Rogue April 24, 2008 - 10:28pm | Make that MODIFIED assault scout buds ![]() I report to the brig to visit you two punks. ;-) Thats 'casue we modified the brig into a makeshift pub. gotta toast in the new crew.Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
| AZ_GAMER April 24, 2008 - 10:38pm | Some of the alternate Ship Configurations from my campaign world, enjoy!![]() Wolf Enterprises Escort Class (Gunship A Little Smaller than a frigate) ![]() Wolf Enterprises Frigate Class ![]() Wolf Enterprises Destroyer Class ![]() Wolf Enterprises Light Cruiser Class ![]() Wolf Enterprises Heavy Cruiser Class ![]() Wolf Enterprises Battleship Prototype (Not To Scale) |
| Rum Rogue April 24, 2008 - 10:46pm | nice. Interesting look. Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
| Will April 25, 2008 - 4:13pm | Make that MODIFIED assault scout buds ![]() I report to the brig to visit you two punks. ;-) Thats 'casue we modified the brig into a makeshift pub. gotta toast in the new crew.Wouldn't an ensign command an assault scout? "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
| Astralith April 25, 2008 - 6:50pm | I live in house that looks like everyother stinking house along a 5 mile radius. It's because its cheaper to mass produce the same parts over and over (no new specs, no new architects, no new materials, no new design trials, etc.).
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| Imperial Lord April 25, 2008 - 6:58pm | "Wouldn't an ensign command an assault scout?" You mean Junior Lieutenant? Fleet Lieutenants command assault scouts. Larry can fire some guns though, or astrogate or maybe lead the boarding party. I don't know if I would want Larry leading my boarding party, though. Or firing guns... Or astrogating... ![]() |
| AZ_GAMER April 25, 2008 - 10:54pm | I live in house that looks like everyother stinking house along a 5 mile radius. It's because its cheaper to mass produce the same parts over and over (no new specs, no new architects, no new materials, no new design trials, etc.). Did you actually read the article? While I respect your opinion, However, I think in SF universe were just a little far beyond looking out the porthole seeing a silhoutte in the distance and just shooting a torpedo at what ever round long object crosses our path. Otherwise, all of the SF canon frieghters would be shot to pieces entering UPF space, as if you look at their oblique profile with rounded command module and nacelle engine stalks looks a lot like a Sathar Frigate. Thats what transponders and long range detection sensors are for and INT check rolls are for. And if you settle for medicority in ship design medicority is what you'll get, I think I'll continue to think outside the box and the cookie cutter ship designs. Lets not forget that there is no ambient light in space unless your very close to a reflective surface such as a planet near a star or near a star itself. So everything in space is just dark objects passing each other in the night. Truthfully ships could look like just about anything. You could put a cube in space (oh wait a minute I think one TV show did that already, oh thats right and they all looked the same too). Seems to me that If the Discovery rolled in UPF space, an advanced space farring culture would probably be wise enough not to shoot at an object just becuase it was round or else every AG ship would burn upon entering a UPF system. Thats Like saying the US navy should shoot down any freighter with three smoke stacks instead of two. Honestly I think we can move on from the argument that canon ship shape is the only way to go. LOL But, I am mature enough to agree to disagree as well. In my campaign I'll keep on adding and innovating and keeping my players happy and excited about every new adventure. Game On! Thanks for the input |
| AZ_GAMER April 25, 2008 - 10:56pm | PS. Have you seen the new Assault Scouts designs in the GDJ's CGI art section. They rock! I love the old design but I'll take one of those new flashy models any day too! |
| Rum Rogue April 25, 2008 - 11:41pm | I don't know if I would want Larry leading my boarding party, though. Or firing guns... Or astrogating... ![]() Doesnt the first one in the boarding party usally refferred to as "Meatshield"?
Time flies when your having rum. Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time. |
| Will April 26, 2008 - 11:38am | Why use meatshields when you have robots? "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
| Will April 26, 2008 - 1:50pm | Junior Lieutenant? That's sounds like something Soviet. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |
| Imperial Lord April 26, 2008 - 3:27pm | Well Will, there is no ensign in the canon. Not in the UPF, at least. I'm sure there are militia ensigns, though. |
| Will April 26, 2008 - 4:45pm | I know, ImpLord. "You're everything that's base in humanity," Cochrane continued. "Drawing up strict, senseless rules for the sole reason of putting you at the top and excluding anyone you say doesn't belong or fit in, for no other reason than just because you say so." —Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stephens, Federation |